10 HP is well within the error range of most chassis dynos (in this HP range).

You can take the same car run it ten times and get variations of two to four percent.

Just like all the intake systems so far, IMHO... The seller is full of ****!

Vince

 

I'd doubt that - sorry to sharp-shoot...When My car does back to back runs, the range is rarely more than 1 or 2hp at any point in the graph.

 

I don't think it's cool to have the K&N Co. advertising banners on this site for claims that have been found to be bogus. But hey, we all gotta pay the bills.

 

I wouldn't say they are proven to be bogus. Shady or suspect numbers...perhaps misleading. We wont know until/unless K&N sends a product to somebody - maybe an 'official' of this board, and lets them do a back-to-back test.

 

Bogus bogus bogus!!! :D


Bogus \Bo"gus\, a. [Etymol. uncertain.]
Spurious; fictitious; sham; -- a cant term originally applied
to counterfeit coin, and hence denoting anything counterfeit.
[Colloq. U. S.]
[1913 Webster]

Bogus \Bo"gus\, n.
A liquor made of rum and molasses. [Local, U. S.] --Bartlett.
[1913 Webster]


bogus
adj : fraudulent; having a misleading appearance [syn: fake,
phony, phoney, bastard]

bogus - definition from jargon
bogus
adj.

1. Non-functional. "Your patches are bogus."

2. Useless. "OPCON is a bogus program."

3. False. "Your arguments are bogus."

4. Incorrect. "That algorithm is bogus."

5. Unbelievable. "You claim to have solved the halting problem for
Turing Machines? That's totally bogus."

6. Silly. "Stop writing those bogus sagas."

Astrology is bogus. So is a bolt that is obviously about to break. So
is someone who makes blatantly false claims to have solved a
scientific problem. (This word seems to have some, but not all, of
the connotations of random -- mostly the negative ones.)

It is claimed that bogus was originally used in the hackish sense at
Princeton in the late 1960s. It was spread to CMU and Yale by Michael
Shamos, a migratory Princeton alumnus. A glossary of bogus words was
compiled at Yale when the word was first popularized there about
1975-76. These coinages spread into hackerdom from CMU and MIT. Most
of them remained wordplay objects rather than actual vocabulary items
or live metaphors. Examples: amboguous (having multiple bogus
interpretations); bogotissimo (in a gloriously bogus manner);
bogotophile (one who is pathologically fascinated by the bogus);
paleobogology (the study of primeval bogosity).

Some bogowords, however, obtained sufficient live currency to be
listed elsewhere in this lexicon; see bogometer, bogon,
bogotify, and quantum bogodynamics and the related but unlisted
Dr. Fred Mbogo.

By the early 1980s `bogus' was also current in something like hacker
usage sense in West Coast teen slang, and it had gone mainstream by
1985. A correspondent from Cambridge reports, by contrast, that these
uses of bogus grate on British nerves; in Britain the word means,
rather specifically, `counterfeit', as in "a bogus 10-pound note".
According to Merriam-Webster, the word dates back to 1825 and
originally referred to a counterfeiting machine.



60 Moby Thesaurus words for "bogus":
affected, apocryphal, artificial, assumed, bastard, brummagem,
colorable, colored, counterfeit, counterfeited, distorted,
dressed up, dummy, embellished, embroidered, ersatz, factitious,
fake, faked, false, falsified, feigned, fictitious, fictive,
forged, fraudulent, garbled, illegitimate, imitation, junky,
make-believe, man-made, mock, perverted, phony, pinchbeck,
pretended, pseudo, put-on, quasi, queer, self-styled, sham, shoddy,
simulated, snide, so-called, soi-disant, spurious, supposititious,
synthetic, tin, tinsel, titivated, twisted, unauthentic, ungenuine,
unnatural, unreal, warped

 

If they gavethe customer "in writting" then I think it's worth a try. I would not put anything in my car until I do the initial Dyno run, to compare later with mod's I might do.

K&N...just become a vendor or a simple member here and prove it to us and give us the garranty in writting....prove it...and they will come (or better yet buy your product).

If the price was reasonable, under $200 and you gained 10HP...it would be a worthwhile upgrade...if not....well, it would not be worth it.

I hope it's true for the sake of our beloved 8 and all the owners out there, but let's see what tigg finds out...

 

anyone that wants to advertise here is welcome.

 

No CARB sticker

 

Who cares if they put a guarantee on the box. Honestly, how many people are going to put the unit on, dyno it, get upset, take the unit off, bitch & moan at K&N about their dynos, K&N will probably give them a ridiculously hard time about them proving that it does not work making them modify it numerous way & running additional dyno pulls, & may not even honor it's guarantee. Quite simply good luck if the product doesn't work. That gaurantee will be harder to collect on than it is worth for a lot of people. Like they said in Black Sheep "I can take a crap in a box and put a guarantee on the outside."

 

My e-mail / question to them:

have seen your new intake on the rx8 club website and saw it was being advertised as a 9.5 hp gain guaranteed. Does this intake come with a written warranty for this claim. Also if I have my car dyno'ed and it does not produce the hp is it returnable? I am asking this due to the reviews of the many people who bought the first intake that were unsatisified with it.



Thank you,

Their Response

Since we have not released the newer kit yet, it is hard to make any definite claims on the power gains. However, the previous kit also made 9.5hp at the wheels. The dyno plot for this intake is also on our website. The reason for the re-design is that Mazda had been making ecu updates to customer’s vehicles to fix some idle and fuel mixture issues. Our kit has been developed on vehicles without these flash updates, so some customers were getting rough idles and even stalling. This was occurring with other intake manufacturer’s for the RX-8 as well. We have been working with some local customers to try and resolve these issues. Once the kit has released (no official date yet), anyone that is having driveability issues and can verify with a proof of purchase will be able to exchange the kits.



If you performed a dyno run, it should come pretty close to ours. Obviously, there will be some variance between vehicles. But it should be within 1-2 hp. A kit can be returned for any reason. For example, some customers do not like the increased sound of an intake. K&N will still honor a refund however. We do ask that you try returning it back to the original retailer, as you can receive your refund much quicker. But worst case scenario, you would just need to contact us, verify the purchase amount with a receipt, and then get a return authorization number. K&N wants every customer to be happy with our product and service. But every customer has different expectations, so we have no problem honoring their refund if a kit does (or filter) does not meet their standards.

Thanks for writing,

Shaun McClure
Technical Support
K&N Engineering

 

I have done over 160 dyno pulls and based on my experience two to four percent is the margin of error.

Vince

 

Perhaps you dyno on weird dynos?

 

Perhaps this is a little off topic, but many studies have been done at my college that have found that K&N filters alone, not an entire intake system, add zero hp. So many students have tested K&N filters for their senior thesis that the professor who teaches the classes you work on the paper in won't allow another thesis to be written on the things because they don't work unless massive amounts of air are being moved into the motor - i.e. cars with forced induction. A successful thesis testing a product doesn't have to show results, it's just that the professor knows that studying the K&N filter is a waste of time.

 

While I am admiteddly hard on aftermarket intakes for THIS car, this has really turned into K&N bashing. I don't have a problem with them as a company and I've always used their filter elements. I was hard on them earlier in this thread about bringing a crap product to market but I've thought about it and as someone else said, at least they are trying to improve it. From what it sounds like in their response, they will allow those who have the original kit to exchange theirs for the new one provided they have a proof of purchase. That may be difficult for many but at least the offer to trade is there. Although I am a sceptic of any feelable power gains from an intake system for the RX-8, at least they, unlike every other intake manufacturer, have been dealing with issues that their kits have had rather than just allowing them to keep selling flawed units. I can't insult them as a company and I've always used their filters on my other cars. My whole problem has always been with intake kits for the RX-8 since they don't really do much. It isn't a problem with K&N as a company.

 

I have the Typhoon kit and all it does is make noise. A LOT of noise. My idle sux *** and i have even had the car stall after idling too long. EVERY time I idle too long, the CEL comes on then goes away after 2 or 3 drives. It is really annoying since i have to hold the RPM's at 1000 or above to prevent this every time i wait at a long light or if i am picking someone up. BOOOOOO K&N!! *Hiss*

 

There is no guareentee at the web site shown.

The Banner says a guareenteed power increase, which is true!

There is an increase but the 9.5hp is misleading.

For Motorcycles the K&N's are great.

 

Exactly, and we're not about to edit the content or dispute any claims made on advertisers banners - that's not our place. It's up to you all to determine if they're valid or not.

Personally, I think it's pretty proactive of K&N to revise their design to address the issues some people have had with their intakes.

 

Too bad they wont send me a "replacement" updated model since I threw my receipts away 8 months ago when I bought the damn thing.... Oh well.

 

That dyno is manipulative. Let's boycott them and spread the word, unless they do a legit before and after dyno or change their advertising IMMEDIATELY and apologize. A holes.

Let's make A hole companies understand they better say it like it is or consumers are going to react.

 

Or perhaps if you aren't interested in their products, you could just not buy them? Too easy that way?

 

Give K&N a break at least they're making an effort to rectify complaints about their product. The new K&N should be judged on its own merits. 9.5 HP is about what every other intake is producing so basically they're all engine decorations if your looking for big power. RBs' intake will probably be in the same range, face it you can't pull big numbers out of the Renesis with only an intake, heck you cant get more that 15 os so on a Civic.

Wait till the new intake tube comes out, someone will buy it then we will all know what's what, end of story.

 

I would love to see ANY intake where you are getting 9.5 hp from it. And not the vendor dynos, but posters on this board who have gotten 9.5 hp from ANY intake. Hasn't happened. You are lucky to get 3-4 hp. I have never seen a SRI on a Civic give 15 hp.

 

If this intake gains us anywhere near a peak of 9.5 and 4-5 accross the midrange I'll buy it in a heartbeat. But don't hold your breath..........

 

Short rams are crap on Hondas before the k series because they sit right near the headers.

Tell your Civic drivin' friend to get a long tube. J/K

I've seen a lot of dynos since I started seriously getting into working on cars from a lot of sources. The Civic Is just used as an example, I've seen from 8-12 whp from CAIs usually, that figures out to about 10-15 at the flywheel. But hey I've seen dynos from normal people that say their getting 25-30 from a CAI, Different dynos, different cars, it all depends. Also I'm referrlng to the point of greatest gain not peak HP.

As for the 9.5 hp claim, check the dyno chart, It's not peak power just most gain over stock. Those aren't hard to come by on this site. A 9.5 peak gain would be another matter.

 

You do realize that so far all the designs for the RX8 have been SRI's right ? Nobody has come out with a revised VFAD for us yet. I did a dyno a while back that showed with the addition of an intake, pullies & hi-flow cat I got 5 whp at the peak, & about 12 in the rev range. YOU WILL NOT GET A 9.5 HP GAIN IN ANY PART OF THE POWERBAND with the K&N unit. Racing Beat's #'s on the air intake are much more realistic (2-4 hp gain). Leter with a revised VFAD you may get another 1 or 2 hp.