Razz1

It can't be the flywheel, otherwise we can all sue Mazda.

Not only did they drop HP from 250 to 238 it now reads 210 to 212.

That's 11% less than actual claims. Good enough for a law suit by the Government.

That 1% loss is huge at bottom level. You need that 1.8HP around the corners.

They must have smoothed the Dyno quite a bit as I don't see any drop around 6200 or 7200 like everyone else has been experiencing.

I'd like to see the AF map.

I'd also like to see if anyone can pass Calif. Smog with this.

You might have to buy an addtional ECU and swap them out.

Moostafa29

Why wouldn't you be able to pass smog with this? The changes are in the mid-high range, and smoging is done much lower.

If you decide to sue the gov, let us know how it turns out! I wouldn't mind reaping the benefits of the outcome.

zoom44

RB doesnt have a chassis dyno.

canadian rx-8s are on the same flash levels as the american "non california" cars. for 2004 model year cars that means all of them. for 2005 cars it means when they psot they cna flash 2005 cars they can flash canadians. will they? youd have to ask them might be an issue with customs or other legal stuff

itll pass californias smog test

AFR maps should be easy to come by - all you need is some who has the flash and a Scanalyzer or CanScan

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Have spent some time digesting the tech info on the RB site on this & have a couple of questions :

1 they state no gains from playing with timing - is this consistent with what Scott has found with Interceptor X . What about your dyno tests Hymee ?

2 They don't seem to be getting the midrange gains we saw on Swoope's car with the int x . What is Scott doing differently ?

Edit : just did an interesting comparison . Took the dyno graph of Swoope's car with Int x & overlayed Racing Beat graph . Photo reduced so they were approx. the same scale . The slope of the graphs are identical from 0- 6200 rpm so any differences after that point should be real . The main thing I picked up from this is that Swoope's car in pre dyno tuned form was not as strong as the pre flash engine at RB in the 6000-8000 range . May be all that mid range gain with the x is just not there afterall ?

brillo

you guys have to remember that Racing Beat did its tune to live within the cat temp restrictions, therefore, its not going to have the mid range that Scotts tune did. Scott did a cat be damned full power tune, so he's going to run alot leaner.

Mazda did its tuned based on cat temp and emissions, an even more restrictive box to work with. Sad thing is, had mazda gone with a larger metallic cat, they could have prolly found a way to tune the engine with more power and lived within emissions and cat life laws

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

accept what you are saying Brillo .
My point is that pre tune , swoopes' engine does not look as strong as the RB engine

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

RB's product is good, great way to go and they are sharing a lot of info. Heck just the fact that they have the increased redline, modified omp maps and lower temp activation for the fan's, is worth the price! But 225 at the flywheel is no big deal. Heck we have one member here in Ga that has 205 at the drive wheels. That would make more than 225 at the flywheel.
So my question is would the % of gain be consistant no matter what are the cars base numbers? Or does the highter the bases numbers the less % of gain? If the % is consistant is true then this is a GREAT product and I will be performing surgery soon.

olddragger

BoosTED

iTrader: (2)

Not sure if they smoothed the graph much but I can say that the power up to red line is very smooth. I didn't feel any power dips. That is why I mentioned having a shift light would be beneficial.

And getting to red line is quicker, so I found myself staring at the tach almost not believing it was at that RPM.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

also looking at this a little closer the gains shown on RB's dyno sheet are with 3 new products (including the flash) not just the flash itself. The gains are from the install of the RB catback and Revi intake PLUS the flash. Not trying to knock this reflash, it has a lot of good stuff in it--just making all aware that if they already have the revi, and the catback the gains may not be as great.
I'm I evaluating that correctly?
olddraggerl

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

I have a few comments:

They haven't "cracked" the ECU. They're programming the processor directly through the processor programming pins. It appears that they don't know how to program through the OBD port. What they have done is much easier than trying to go through the OBD port, but it also means they are a long way from being able to sell you a box that will flash in your garage.

Second- $150 to re-program after a dealer overwrites it? That's kind of crap. They've already done the hard part of adding the programming header, so this is a pretty steep charge to just plug in a cable and hit "go".

Charge me $400 and give me free updates for life, I pay shipping. The idea that taking it to the dealer means there is a good chance that I'm out another $150 and at least a week of car usage really sucks. They even act on the page like they might not do the re-update for $150 in any kind of reasonable time- "Depending on availability of service and programming."

dmp

What's your time worth? $150 covers labor of their employees.

brillo

sorry i missed that, Swoope has had some engine trouble, so its possible it could be related to that.

I'll ask him later when I talk to him.

BaronVonBigmeat

Option C: Tell your dealer that you don't want any more flashes, put a cover on the OBD port, and put a DO NOT REFLASH sticker on somewhere.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

I kind of like my warranty actually.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

I'm really, really hoping that it doesn't take them a full 8 hour day to update a unit.

I work for a company that makes a product that the customer can update the firmware in with a PC. Some of our customers don't want to go through the "hassle" of that and want to send it to us. We will do the update for them for free. Does this cost us? Yep. Does it cost us a lot? Not really. We're experts at it, and it takes us about 10 minutes to do the update, and we can do something else for half of that time. We charge the customer return shipping and all of us are happy.

Racing beat is telling us this:

The "software" is worth something on the order of $50. You pay $300 for the whole process, but $150 of that is the actual time it takes to open and close the unit and to send the software over. Assuming that process is worth $150, I'm going to assume that installing a hardware connector to the board is worth at least $100. That's only $50 remaining for the R&D effort they put into desigining the software. Why undervalue your software so much?

I personally like companies that charge me logical amounts for the services they supply. $300 is reasonable (heck, cheap) for the first service. $150 is crazy for the re-flashes. The only reason you charge $150 for a re-flash is if you think you're going to get tons of re-flashes and this is your actual revenue stream (like blades for razors, or inkjet cartridges), or you really, really don't want people to re-get the software after their car gets flashed and you make the price prohibitavley high.

I'm not saying that I won't get the flash, since $300 is a good price for that. But I'll have a really sour taste in my mouth for RB if I ever end up paying that $150 for some guy's 15 minutes of time, since I know RB is just screwing me at this point.

Is RB gonna charge us all $150 for a re-update every time Mazda comes out with a new flash level?

brillo

Guys,

your really paying for RB's R&D on this one, Jim's put alot of time into this, off and on for two years or so, its more than pushing a button.

Its like software, your not paying for the cost of the CD is burned on, your paying for the hours and hours of coding and debuging.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

Brillo, did you even read my post?

A quote for you: "Why undervalue your software so much?"

brillo

sorry, i don't think I've had all the caffeine I need today.

but my response would be, i think they value it very much, but I also think that they realize that their is only so much they can charge.

That, and the reflash is part of a greater effort to be able to reflash the PCM's for other projects. I doubt they are thinking that this is going to be something people are going to be doing over and over again due to the logistical challenges.

dmp

Most shops/mechanics around here charge $70/hr.

dmp

Could it be RB is thinking by placing a higher price on the re-flash they'll encourage their customers to be more careful? Can you imagine them having to reflash ECUs ALL DAY because their customers were careless?

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

So you're saying that every time you go to a dealer, they do exactly what you want them to, following every instruction down to the letter?

RB's customers don't flash cars. Dealers do. I'd be pretty weary of telling my dealer "don't flash my car, I have an aftermarket flash in there that voids my warranty, and I want to keep it"

I'll happily pay $70/hr to have my ECU re-flashed. If it takes them more than 15 minutes to re-flash an ECU, something is really wrong with their process. Modern embedded CPU programming tools are fast and easy.

To me, the $150 re-flash fee is taking advantage of someone's misfortune, which is never a good long term buisness proposition. Make your money on the original product and serve your customers by treating them right after the sale, not by profiteering when the dealer decides to update the firmware.

zoom44

you work for a company that makes a product to over write the firmware on pcms with a pc in the field but they dont support rx-8s and you are bitching about the price another company has put on their product? why dont you get your company to work on RX-8s?

someone mentioned putting a cover on the port and anotehr person answered " i like my warrenty". guess what then - dont buy the flash until you are out of warranty coverage.

zoom44

oh and OD- if the fellow with the 205 whp is not running a piggy back or anything else that changes his stock tune then the RB flash will hav ethe same avg increase for his car.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i am a bit confused...

you are comparing the 205 whp i my car did with the 225 flywheel hp. that rb did??? i would say that was pretty damn =

btw, mine did 195 hp rwh. with just a midpipe and intake... that tends to be on the high side..

beers

rotarygod

You guys want to know 1 sure fire way to guarantee that Mazda does not reflash your car? Stop taking them to the damn dealers!!!! I would never take my car in to a dealership to get worked on unless something VERY catastrophic happened. No fluids will ever get changed by the dealer on any of my cars and I would never take it in just to get a new flash. Dealerships are there to sell cars, not work on them.