New updates to racing beat website
#77
Administrator
you woul dhave achoice to make- is the new mazda flash something that corrects a problem you are facing? is it so important that you have to have it?
if the answer is yes then the choice would be to have mazda flash the car and then have RB reflash it with their code.
if the answer to the questions above is no then you tell your service people to under no circumstances are they to flash your car. if you dont authorise it they arent allowed to do it. you stick with your Racing Beat flash.
of course this brings up a different question- what is the base for the RB flash. the base would have to be a Mazda flash. which flash is the base? well since this new flash is going to be a Recall for the 2004s Racing Beat will probably base the 2004 car flash they release on the S/T code. so their flash will have the important part of the new mazda code +the improvements to fuel and timing etcetc that they have made![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
that takes us back to getting the first answer i gave and whether its a recall. if its a recall and you care about the resale value of your car then you will get it don by the dealer and then by racing beat. if you dotn care about the resale then just get the new RB flash to cove rthe problem.
I cant speak for RB but i would suspect they would find a way to accomadate folks who need the RB flash redone. call them and ask. or jus twait fdor awhile until they rtelease the full details.
if the answer is yes then the choice would be to have mazda flash the car and then have RB reflash it with their code.
if the answer to the questions above is no then you tell your service people to under no circumstances are they to flash your car. if you dont authorise it they arent allowed to do it. you stick with your Racing Beat flash.
of course this brings up a different question- what is the base for the RB flash. the base would have to be a Mazda flash. which flash is the base? well since this new flash is going to be a Recall for the 2004s Racing Beat will probably base the 2004 car flash they release on the S/T code. so their flash will have the important part of the new mazda code +the improvements to fuel and timing etcetc that they have made
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
that takes us back to getting the first answer i gave and whether its a recall. if its a recall and you care about the resale value of your car then you will get it don by the dealer and then by racing beat. if you dotn care about the resale then just get the new RB flash to cove rthe problem.
I cant speak for RB but i would suspect they would find a way to accomadate folks who need the RB flash redone. call them and ask. or jus twait fdor awhile until they rtelease the full details.
#78
Administrator
Originally Posted by XELLR8
Just to confirm what 'hogcar' said. I inquired via email & below is the response from Jim.
xEll
Guys,
Since I have received several email messages regarding the ECU reflash for the RX-8 let me try an answer your questions with this summarization.
Yes, we have finally developed a flash for the RX-8 that offers a modest performance increase. Once we are ready to release this flash, we will make available dyno charts and performance specifications. Before releasing this reflash we had several people that we have an on-going testing relationship send us their ECU's. (By chance, all of these cars were 2004 RX-8s.) All reports regarding the reflash were positive as expected, with no problems or complaints.
Shortly thereafter we attempted to reflash a 2005 RX-8, but the ECU would not accept the flash. We have since obtained both an 2005 and 2006 ECU and we are continuing to research these units. We have also been made aware of another possible Mazda flash version for the 2004 that might be forthcoming. We would prefer to update the latest flash to avoid having our customers deal with a possible "overwrite" by the dealer during a visit to the dealership.
We do not have any current plans for an ECU flash for any specific aftermarket turbo or supercharger kits. The price for the reflash has a target price of around $295, with a 1-2 turnaround required for this service. (Same day service for local customers will be addressed at our next staff meeting.)
Best regards,
Jim Langer
Racing Beat, Inc.
714-779-8677
Fax 714-779-2902
www.racingbeat.com
xEll
Guys,
Since I have received several email messages regarding the ECU reflash for the RX-8 let me try an answer your questions with this summarization.
Yes, we have finally developed a flash for the RX-8 that offers a modest performance increase. Once we are ready to release this flash, we will make available dyno charts and performance specifications. Before releasing this reflash we had several people that we have an on-going testing relationship send us their ECU's. (By chance, all of these cars were 2004 RX-8s.) All reports regarding the reflash were positive as expected, with no problems or complaints.
Shortly thereafter we attempted to reflash a 2005 RX-8, but the ECU would not accept the flash. We have since obtained both an 2005 and 2006 ECU and we are continuing to research these units. We have also been made aware of another possible Mazda flash version for the 2004 that might be forthcoming. We would prefer to update the latest flash to avoid having our customers deal with a possible "overwrite" by the dealer during a visit to the dealership.
We do not have any current plans for an ECU flash for any specific aftermarket turbo or supercharger kits. The price for the reflash has a target price of around $295, with a 1-2 turnaround required for this service. (Same day service for local customers will be addressed at our next staff meeting.)
Best regards,
Jim Langer
Racing Beat, Inc.
714-779-8677
Fax 714-779-2902
www.racingbeat.com
see you can just ask them or wait for more details when they are ready to release it
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#79
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This is great news, i hope the flash helps breather mods. so we can more pwoer for the amount of money all of are spending.... on exhaust and waht not, hopefully this will help us get our bang for the buck that everyone is looking for..
#80
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iTrader: (1)
My main questions would be..
are they just adjusting fuel / timing or are they also making improvements to port timings, OMP settings, cat protection strategies, throttle response, ect?
If the answer is they are just adjusting Fuel / Timing then the Cobb solution will probably be better when/if it arrives (especially since that will come with a programmer). Since RB has the source code they could be making further adjustments in these other areas which could make thier flash superior.
are they just adjusting fuel / timing or are they also making improvements to port timings, OMP settings, cat protection strategies, throttle response, ect?
If the answer is they are just adjusting Fuel / Timing then the Cobb solution will probably be better when/if it arrives (especially since that will come with a programmer). Since RB has the source code they could be making further adjustments in these other areas which could make thier flash superior.
#81
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my question is how it will react with the people running the INter-x, will that flash also up the hp on the Interx? or wil lyou have to retune the interx to accomidate the new flash coming out?
#82
the rb flash works by leaning the fuel maps. the int-x controls the fuel and bypasses the car's pcm. So getting the rb flash would be a waste of time and money.
I just read about cobb's flash. I'll let Mike explain it since he's the one who got the into. But the quick and dirty version: they're going to be doing a fully tunable pcm flasher for the RX-8. They get the required hardware in Oct, and so I expect something by the end of the year. It will even let you disable CEL warning for missing cat if you're running a midpipe. Handheld unit lets you download the firmware, make changes and push it back to the car.
Here's what it looks like for the wrx:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/wrx/ap-streettuner.html
Price tag is great too.
I just read about cobb's flash. I'll let Mike explain it since he's the one who got the into. But the quick and dirty version: they're going to be doing a fully tunable pcm flasher for the RX-8. They get the required hardware in Oct, and so I expect something by the end of the year. It will even let you disable CEL warning for missing cat if you're running a midpipe. Handheld unit lets you download the firmware, make changes and push it back to the car.
Here's what it looks like for the wrx:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/wrx/ap-streettuner.html
Price tag is great too.
#83
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^You summed it up nicely. I don't have anything to add about the details. I will say that the release date is tentative, so please don't hold them to it, or start hounding them if for somet reason it is not released this year. This will be a quality product, and a good alternative for people who want something a little more aggressive than RB has to offer.
Last edited by Moostafa29; 07-05-2006 at 04:00 PM.
#84
Administrator
Originally Posted by r0tor
My main questions would be..
are they just adjusting fuel / timing or are they also making improvements to port timings, OMP settings, cat protection strategies, throttle response, ect?
are they just adjusting fuel / timing or are they also making improvements to port timings, OMP settings, cat protection strategies, throttle response, ect?
#85
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spoke with RB today. their flash has upped the redline to 9.3K and the power increase told to me was 15hp in the upper rpm's. It also changes the time of the fans activating(did not give details). It is a flash so if your car is recalled and they flash over it then it will be lost. It was ready and I was quoted the cost to be $200 but BECAUSE they have heard of yet another factory flash reported to be coming they have put it on hold until they know more about it.
They also said that the flash does take into account the usual mods(intake, cat backs etc) but no to FI.
Waiting patiently![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
olddragger
They also said that the flash does take into account the usual mods(intake, cat backs etc) but no to FI.
Waiting patiently
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
olddragger
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Originally Posted by olddragger
spoke with RB today. their flash has upped the redline to 9.3K and the power increase told to me was 15hp in the upper rpm's. It also changes the time of the fans activating(did not give details). It is a flash so if your car is recalled and they flash over it then it will be lost. It was ready and I was quoted the cost to be $200 but BECAUSE they have heard of yet another factory flash reported to be coming they have put it on hold until they know more about it.
They also said that the flash does take into account the usual mods(intake, cat backs etc) but no to FI.
Waiting patiently![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
olddragger
They also said that the flash does take into account the usual mods(intake, cat backs etc) but no to FI.
Waiting patiently
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
olddragger
I'm assuming it takes into account N/A mods because it tells the PCM to tune itself for a particular air/fuel ratio. It doesn't work the same for FI because different AFR's are desired for FI (more rich!), not to mention other variables such as timing.
Having this flash done for $200 pretty much sounds like it would be best for those saving up for FI, but wanting to max out the potential of any N/A mods that they throw on. Too bad new factory flashes overwrite it though!
#88
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$200 - $300 for a reflash is a really really good price considering that Hondata charges $590 to reflash the RSX Type - S and it didn't take them nearly as long to crack the ECU.
#89
hmmmm, 8s generally dyno on the average at about 180whp. Given the average mods of CAI, exhaust, and highflow cat, and the fact that RB just said they are looking at +15hp, with a flywheel dropped into the equation, I wonder what kind of gains to the wheel are possible?
205 - 215whp realistically?????
But it sure would be nice to see 225 - 230whp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
205 - 215whp realistically?????
But it sure would be nice to see 225 - 230whp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#90
Originally Posted by olddragger
spoke with RB today. their flash has upped the redline to 9.3K and the power increase told to me was 15hp in the upper rpm's.
#92
OK folks just got off the phone with RB.
They tested the 8 with stock air box and exhaust and saw ~6-8hp increase. With the RB CAI (SR and duct) and RB exhaust they saw ~12-15hp. As far as the issue with getting reflashed by Mazda, they are working on a plan that allows a person to get there ECU reflashed by them at a big discount if the origninal (RB flash that is) gets written over. Basically, the first time you buy the flash it's full price and there after its discounted.
Also, for people who aren't close to an RB dealer, you can send your ECU to them and they'll flash it and send it back to you. Right now they are pretty much just waiting on Mazda's new flash. Basically, if the flash does something that interfears (spellcheck) with there coding, some changes may need to take place. '04s, '05s, and '06s are different so all of them will be handled differently.
As far as midpipes, high-flow CAT, flywheels, and pulleys being taken into account ... who knows. Factor the RB header in the equation, we might see some pretty good power curves for NA 8s.
They tested the 8 with stock air box and exhaust and saw ~6-8hp increase. With the RB CAI (SR and duct) and RB exhaust they saw ~12-15hp. As far as the issue with getting reflashed by Mazda, they are working on a plan that allows a person to get there ECU reflashed by them at a big discount if the origninal (RB flash that is) gets written over. Basically, the first time you buy the flash it's full price and there after its discounted.
Also, for people who aren't close to an RB dealer, you can send your ECU to them and they'll flash it and send it back to you. Right now they are pretty much just waiting on Mazda's new flash. Basically, if the flash does something that interfears (spellcheck) with there coding, some changes may need to take place. '04s, '05s, and '06s are different so all of them will be handled differently.
As far as midpipes, high-flow CAT, flywheels, and pulleys being taken into account ... who knows. Factor the RB header in the equation, we might see some pretty good power curves for NA 8s.
#93
I dont think 225 to 230 rwhp street legal are realistic, but i read some where that amemiya got 220 rwhp with all bolts on and a reflash
#94
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by crimson-rain
OK folks just got off the phone with RB.
They tested the 8 with stock air box and exhaust and saw ~6-8hp increase. With the RB CAI (SR and duct) and RB exhaust they saw ~12-15hp.
They tested the 8 with stock air box and exhaust and saw ~6-8hp increase. With the RB CAI (SR and duct) and RB exhaust they saw ~12-15hp.
Side note/Rant:
Does it bother anyone else that we (rx8 owners) have to go to these lengths to get what our cars SHOULD be producing, stock? I mean, old skewl 5.0L Mustangs, rated at 220hp would dyno in the 170s - but we've come a long way since. Right??
Sorry, Charlie - I know, I know...Mazda's HP numbers are a different thread...
![Frown](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
lol
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Last edited by dmp; 07-06-2006 at 02:41 PM.
#95
Did they mention the rpm-duration of the reported gains? Without a time scale, those gains don't mean anything. Perhaps we'll have to wait for the dyno?
The person I spoke to did say there were like 4 or 5 people running round with the RB flashes. My guess would be for testing purposes and all 04s. If any of these guys are on this board, they may have been asked not to post any dyno numbers until the flash is ready for release.
To be honest, I am wondering what the gas mileage will be after the flash (putting on fire suit right now).
#96
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by crimson-rain
Yeah, pretty much we are going to have to wait for dyno graphs. Especially since they are waiting for Mazda's new flash. Things might change.
The person I spoke to did say there were like 4 or 5 people running round with the RB flashes. My guess would be for testing purposes and all 04s. If any of these guys are on this board, they may have been asked not to post any dyno numbers until the flash is ready for release.
To be honest, I am wondering what the gas mileage will be after the flash (putting on fire suit right now).
The person I spoke to did say there were like 4 or 5 people running round with the RB flashes. My guess would be for testing purposes and all 04s. If any of these guys are on this board, they may have been asked not to post any dyno numbers until the flash is ready for release.
To be honest, I am wondering what the gas mileage will be after the flash (putting on fire suit right now).
![Icon Tup](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/icon_tup.gif)
Between MPG and HP - I think most owners would ask just to get what they thought they purchased in the first place, eh? :-/
Maybe I'll call RB and offer to send in my ECU to test MORE for them?
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#98
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ok, so what about the exhaust and intakes that claim High Hp, like said borla, claims an extra 10?just with the RB exhuast and stuff the got 15, but other markets, maybe more freesflowing, might see more? and i guess all rx-8s are differnt.. so some mods with this new flash may work differnt and give better gains ?
anyword on how the 05s are coming?
btw, mines an 05 model, but is there for the vehicles that or 04 models, or that were made in 04? because i know my car may be on 05 model, but could have been built in 04? how do you check when it was built??
anyword on how the 05s are coming?
btw, mines an 05 model, but is there for the vehicles that or 04 models, or that were made in 04? because i know my car may be on 05 model, but could have been built in 04? how do you check when it was built??
#99
Registered
Originally Posted by mysql101
your gas mileage, if it changes, would change for the better, since they're leaning out the fuel.
#100
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by Skiptomylue
ok, so what about the exhaust and intakes that claim High Hp, like said borla, claims an extra 10? just with the RB exhuast and stuff the got 15, but other markets, maybe more freesflowing, might see more? and i guess all rx-8s are differnt.. so some mods with this new flash may work differnt and give better gains ?
I'm having trouble figuring out what you're asking. I suppose you could be asking "What do OTHER makes of Catbacks and Intakes do with RB's Re-programmed ECU?"
If that's what you're asking I'm quite sure we'll wait until somebody WITH other makes of exhausts and intakes tests it out. It's quite certain it's not RB's job to test their ECU with every or even OTHER makers stuff.
FWIW, if Borla claims the average RX8 gains 10HP w/ their exhaust they are lying SOBs.
anyword on how the 05s are coming?
btw, mines an 05 model, but is there for the vehicles that or 04 models, or that were made in 04? because i know my car may be on 05 model, but could have been built in 04? how do you check when it was built??
btw, mines an 05 model, but is there for the vehicles that or 04 models, or that were made in 04? because i know my car may be on 05 model, but could have been built in 04? how do you check when it was built??
The ECU works well with the 2004 Model ECU. The others are pending. That answer your question? Check your build date by running your VIN or looking at the data panel on your car's door jam post thingy.