IZoomZoomI

hehe, if you only knew. The place mike is talking about has a lot of experience in this product that is being produced. Keep your options open. RB is not the end of all things that is rx8.

rotarygod

That's true but they are the most experienced, oldest rotary company in the US. By far.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

and if they say something its true.
OD

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

whatever, but at this point anybody who provides a flash that yields a proven performance benefit is sitting in the catbird seat ...

Japan8

Most experienced, oldest rotary company in the US and experienced ECU engineer/ embedded systems engineer are entirely different things. Being an accomplished engineer on AS/400 mainframes means jackshit if asked to Wintel engineering. This does not mean that Racing Beast cannot/will not make a working flash for the RX-8 that improves performance. Rather I am implying that they may not NECESSARILY produce the BEST POSSIBLE flash PRODUCT for the RX-8 just because they have lots of experience with rotary engines. This has less to do with the their tuning ability and rotary knowledge and more to do with their embedded computer engineering knowledge/ability and the type of product it seems (from past comments by RB) they are going to be bringing to the market.

To say it clearly (as I have in another thread)... asking people to mail-in their ECU's to RB for flashing is 100% unreasonable. Yes, I know that JDM tuners do this. But in Japan, unless you live in the countryside, you don't use your car daily for transportation and can afford to have it garaged for several days to a week. In the US where many, if not most owners are using their 8's as daily drivers cannot afford to do this. Add to this the potential for the RB flash to be overwritten when you take your car in for servicing at Mazda... AND the fact that it's pretty standard now for flashing to be done via a preprogrammed (or end-user programmable) OBDII/CAN box that is sold and send to the customer. Even if RB is the only show in town, it doesn't matter if their product is unusable by the majority of their potential market.

Japan8

Don't forget that Ford later downrated the engine to something like 210hp. The original 225hp was reportedly done wthout full dress and this new number was "properly" done.

Does it bother anyone else that you have do something as cheezy as ship your ECU to RB to be re-flashed (downtime) or take it to a local RB dealer... if there is one? Sure... APR for VW's requires you to take your car to their dealer, but the end result is map switching capability via a button/switch sequence and the inability of VW erasing your performance when they reflash your car.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

and it cost them an assload of money...

beers

Japan8

Who? Ford for the downrating of the OHV 5.0L V8? Never heard of it.

More info on the re-rating:
http://www.mustanggt.org/93gt.htm
http://www.mustanggt.org/gtchange.htm
http://forums.mustangworks.com/showp...76&postcount=7
http://www.english.ilstu.edu/students/bchall2/mustang/

hogcar

They must have someone there who knows what they are doing--- They are the only company offering a custom flash, not some add on unit. Not to say all add on units don't work- Motec does, but they are costly.

I suspect that they are more in the "know" than most.

mysql101

Hold on guys. You're taking this the wrong way.

What RB has is good, and it's great that it's out now. The car certainly could use some leaning without piggybacks.

What Cobb is working on, goes in a different direction that what RB is doing. The two do not overlap, even though both are ECU flashes. Keeping in mind that there is a 6+ month wait, which has no ETA since it's currently under development.

Regardless, I don't see why (hogcar) is acting indignant about it.

Japan8

I never said that RB's flash would be anything less than professional. My response to RG had more to do with the fact that RB being long time rotary experts has nothing to do with building ECU flashes. So whether or not Cobb or any other ECU flash company offers a product for the RX-8 has little to do with their rotary experience in the end IF what they offer allows for the end user or tuning shop to tune their own maps. This is purely about embedded systems engineering experience. Yes RB does have someone there than handles this. But RB aren't specialists in this market. Hell this looks like their first product of this type. Logistics are going to be hell. I hope they have plenty of "local" dealers to handle this.

On a slightly different note... what RB has is good. Maybe I sound more down about it than I mean to be. It's a step in the right direction. It's just disappointing (and a bit impractical) how they want to deliver it. Even if they don't offer end user tuning capabilities they still should have done what SCT, Sniper, Cobb and Revo all do... offer a black box with flash pre-loaded for the end user to simply load the flash themselves. Sending in your ECU plain sucks and paying for a reflash if the dealer overwrites the RB flash sucks even more.

On yet another note... RB isn't the first, nor the only company to offer ECU flashes for the RX-8. All the JDM tuners have already been doing it for quite some time now. They are just the first N.A. company to offer it.

dmp

Note red - I fixed that for you to make it a true statement.

hogcar

I remonstrate, but not in anger that would be indignant.

Japan8

In your opinion. I'm looking at it from a business perspective.

Let's take modifying touchscreen LCD's with transflective coating. The problem with having people send in their own units to be upgraded is issues with damage during shipment, claims of damage during the upgrade, tracking which LCD is which customer's... it's easier to pre-purchase screens, upgrade them and sell the upgraded units. Simply less risk incolved.

Take the ECU... you want me to remove my ECU from my car... so now I have nothing to drive. I could damage something when removing and later reinstalling the ECU. The ECU could be damaged in shipping. It could be damaged while being worked on at RB. The $300 and inconvenience you spend on this only gets you 15-20hp and better response. Taking your car in for servicing at a dealer can result in the loss of your flash, and the necessity to rinse and repeat.

You can afford to go without your car? great. This is your "weekend" car? Great. Unfortunately that's not most people...

Armaant

idk if this idea has been thrown out there yet or if it would even work. But with a reflash RB would be changing the maps on the car right? So if you have a cz couldnt you send the cz to them and have them flash that? then you dont have to continue sending the ecu back to RB if mazda erases the flash from the ecu and you can still drive your car in the meantime. Also I mean this for those of us who already have a cz i'm not suggesting people go buy a cz and then on top of that pay for the flash.

RA-Eight

iTrader: (6)

haha, I applaud your analogy! I can appreciate the techie talk.

hogcar

Check it out. This is after the flash.

zoom44

well you misunderstand something. we are talking about changing the instructions that are in the stock pcm. the file that goes in is not the same thing as a tune file for the cz. you're asking for someone to put a mac file in a PC. its completly not compatible. completly different language etc.

zoom44

hogcar what is that?

Armaant

hogcar could you explain that picture

dmp

Right - and your opinion is just that, too - your opinion.
Let Racing Beat decide for themselves what they want to do from a business perspective. Sending ECUs in is NOT unheard of.

Racing Beat shouldn't be in the business of coming up with a specifc way to sell JUST to you. For the AVERAGE guy, removing, packing, and shipping an ECU is not that big of a deal. Being without a car for a week isnt that big of a deal for me; we're a two-car family.

$300 and one week for 15-20whp is a very good deal - if that's what it takes to get my RX8 to the 238hp mazda promised when they sold the car to me.

You're not most people either. You're a guy with a point of view as am I.

murix

So from the last two pages I can deduce Japan8 is not going buy an ecu from RB. I am. Let the market decide the wisdom of their decision.

Next.

RX8SaxMan

I have to be on Japan8's side with this one. You'd be surprised how many of us NEED our cars on a daily basis. Personally I would love to get this RB flash. $300 is pocket change for a 20hp gain, and I'd gladly spend it for this flash.

Unfortunately I cannot go without my car for more than a day - I rely on the 8 to get to and from work, as well as take care of whatever else I have to do on any given day. You guys who CAN take the time to send in your ECU are in a good situation, and good for you for having a spare car. RB is going to lose a lot of sales from guys like me and Japan8 because there is simply no way we can leave our car dead in the water for an extended period of time.

Luckily for me, I could just drive to RB and have them do it on the spot (if they would even do such a thing for me), but not everyone lives in SoCal. If I didn't there would be no possibility of me getting this flash.

I guess all I'm saying is don't flame us for needing our RX-8s on a daily basis. We still want performance upgrades, and it sucks when the delivery locks us out of that opportunity.

Armaant

Zoom44 thanks for clearing that up my skills are somewhat lacking in the tuning department. Which brings me to my next question. I have a cz which I had tuned on a dyno by pfsupercars about 6 months back. Are we leaning towards getting rid of the cz and reflashing to ecu? will it be beneficial or possible (in terms of gaining power not saving money) to flash the ecu from RB and keep the cz? In the idea that it would increase the hp gains even more?

murix

I am going to buy one precisely because I live down the road. I intend to drive there and have it done. :D

I was under the impression certified RB dealers would be able to do the flash for people. Overall I do actually agree a black box flash tuner that you plug in to flash yourself would be ideal, but I am just happy it is near me and it is an option that did not exist before.

Really, I think the market is going to decide on this one. People will or will not buy it.