olddragger

iTrader: (3)

maybe Rb is being cautious. prehaps some people would have difficulty in doing the reflash themselves. Prhaps RB wants to do it this way to control the quality--they have said that a re-reflash would be a very nominal if not non-existant fee(for those cases that the dealership wipe it out) a black box would be great but how would you copewrite it--I am tech challaged-
I can some points on both sides of this approach. Anytime a new product is released there are distribution problems. If they could black box to their dealers that would be good.
Olddragger

8 is enough

lets not forget that there are headers coming out too towards the end of summer

Japan8

^ True dat!!!

strong bad

it's funny that some arguments against this flash include "$300 to get only 15-20 hp" wheras ppl all over the boards are spending easily twice that for bolt ons that they knew did jack crap but add points in aesthetics/sound factor.. not to mention that most ppl who made those upgrades did so such that more power could then be tuned out of the car as a result

i'm not a RB fanboy, and currently have no intention of buying the flash myself.. also, it's to be determined whether claimed gains are whp or flywheel or how it may differ with non RB mods.. i also agree that the mail in option would not be the most practical way of handling it.. still, there's progress being made in what seems to be the only thing most 8 owners care about -- engine tuning.

those of us who've been on the boards long enough to remember the CZ/EMB days as the only flash/ems option rejoiced when scott brokethrough with the Int-x. there's been talk of several other tuning options like fcon/cobb/megasquirt/EMU... re amemiya and others have flashes.. thank god there are options now. there's gonna be pros and cons to each one for different ppl..

i'm not going to try to argue for RB or any other option. again, i just have to point back to the argument that it ONLY gives 15 horses for $300 as being weak because it's one of the cheapest options out there for the apparent gain.

Japan8

I understand the point you're trying to be, but it really is pretty null. Considering that there are many such products on the market for other makes of cars. The other being that if you can operate a VCR, you can do a reflash. If you can't figure how to use a VCR... please don't procreate.

It really is just that simple. Find OBDII port. Plug in box. Turn on box. Follow Yes/No menu. Done. And of course there are instructions that come with it. Someone even posted a thread about it in the general auto forum about their flashing a Ford F150 with the SCT package.

Now for RB to produce this... they would have to create their own "black box" ECU flasher. This would be quite an investment... to develop that piece of hardware and software. And remember... this isn't RB's specialty... so more people need to be hired, more development and hope to spread some of the costs out by reusing what you can with the Mazda3 and Mazda6. This could easily have been solved by simply partnering with another company like Cobb, SCT, Sniper, Revo, etc. to create this, but... RB has their own plans/ideas and this way can keep 100% control and profit from the product. IMHO... they should have just partnered up and offered a more complete product.


Strongbad has a good point... which I agree with. People have been spending a bit of change already on mods that have been giving little performance increase. $300 is not unreasonable for this product and it's potential gains. Sure a catback also has the benefit of sounding better, but it also runs you $500-$1000. The arrival of more tuning options is also a wonderful development. My only complaint has been about the "mail-in" delivery method... disappointing.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

understand your point--but thats the way it is--heck even have to mail in prescriptions to a mail order pharmacy now a days--yes aggravating but if ya want it then thats the way you have to do it for now. Glad to hear a re write is not hard to do. Maybe they will progress to letting their dealers do this.
olddragger

mikeschaefer

With that type of system, does it allow you to do only ONE flash? Meaning does it somehow keep itself from flashing more than once? I can just a bunch of owners in one town chipping in to buy one and then sharing it.

mysql101

I don't mind mailing in my car's ECU. I can go without the car for a few days - but I've had packages lost, and destroyed in the mail. I don't even want to know what mazda chargers for a replacement.

Moostafa29

I'm pretty sure the ECU would cost you a pretty penny. My friend had to replace one in his car, and I seem to remember him paying something like $500+ on it.

Japan8

The handheld flasher (black box) only works with one car. ONce your setup it up to flash your car, it is locked for your car only and will not work on any other cars.




Plus the trouble of resyncing the key fob and immobilizer. Fun fun.

Armaant

I had to buy a new ecu when i had a bmw...that ran $600 which i had to pay a salvage yard that took it from another car...i don't want to know how much it would have cost from the factory...but maybe shipping insurance on the package would help though making the claim and all that crap will leave your car sitting around for a long time.

again any idea about the cz and flash working together to compound horsepower? high hopes?

IZoomZoomI

why? The flash would only work with the factory pcm. It's either or. CZ is a piggyback and this is a flash two completely different approaches to fuel management.

dmp

rotarygod

I do have to say that many of the highly over rated Japanese tuners have been doing the same basic type of upgrade for years where the ecu needed to be sent in to get rechipped or reflashed.

Moostafa29

You would probably benefit from the higher redline, but you'd have to have a completely different tune for your CZ unit. Even if you wanted to be more aggressive than the RB tune, you'd still have to worry about the LTFT.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

The "overated Japanese tuners" live in a country the size of the state of Montana. Their core customers don't need to FedEx their ECU's 3,000 miles to get flashed and take 3 days minimum.

There is first no way I'd trust the postal system with my ecu and secondly there is no way I'd take off the 2-3 days from work and sit around the house without a car (or rent a car for those days for that matter).

HeavyMetal699

Is there anyway they can do a core deposit type system? Send you out a flashed ECU and when you get it, you then mail yours back, and they initially charge $600 then credit $300 back to you when they recieve your ECU.

When I had my '02 silverado there was a company that did this called
http://www.westerscustomtuning.com/35.php

For a small fee you can even send it back and get it reflashed.

I'm wondering if Racing Beat can do this for the RX-8.

Moostafa29

Probably too much extra trouble.

zoom44

cant be dont- the PATS immobilser prevents the switching of PCMs like that.

Japan8

r0tor... yep... that is what I was going to say. And I did also say in a previous post that the Japanese who live in the Tokyo area (Kanto region), Osaka area (kansai region), and Nagoya area... which is most of the Japanese population... don't need a car for daily life. They use public transportation to get to and from work... they can live without having their car running for 2-3 days.


As zoom44 pointed out... won't work because of the immobilizer and your key fob.

Don't forget... America is the country of lawsuits. How many people are going to damage their ECU or surrounding components when trying to remove it? How many would damage it, send it to RB, and then claim RB damaged it when they get it back and it doesn't work?

rotarygod

RB has the ability to disable the immobilizer.

Aside from a little bit of inconvenience to send your ecu out, show me another mod for the money that does as much. There isn't one even remotely close. If it's so easy to get a system out that allows the end user to plug into their OBDII port to tune, why haven't we seen one yet? I know we will in the future but it's not so easy. The apparently godlike Japanese tuners can't do it yet and don't tell me it's because of convenience.

Yes we are a country of lawsuits. How many people are going to plug in a tunable ecu into their car, not know what they are doing, break something, and then blame the company that sold them the product? There is nothing different in this regards.

This is the single biggest gain for less than $300. End of story. Nothing touches it at twice the price and definitely not with as little hassle as this is. It's removing and reinstalling an ecu. If that's too difficult, you shouldn't touch a car at all. I don't see what the issue is. If you can't put up with a little inconvenience for a couple of days, that's your problem. They are offering a service that many people have wanted and now some people still aren't happy. RB could come out with a free automatic *** wiper and RX-8 owners would probably still complain because they didn't like the toilet paper being used. If you like this mod and the gain it gives you for the price but have an issue with getting it, it's your issue. Figure it out. Either make it work and be happy or cry about it and get nothing. This isn't France. Effort is legal here. RB has done their part.

zoom44

and there is that handy DIY for removing your pcm that i posted awhile back...

Red Devil

Well, if in conjunction with all bolt-ons and the RB flash, if that could get us around the 205-210whp mark, I'd consider that to be pretty good. Based on pricing, the RB reflash is cheaper than the Cobb Accessport (comparing this to their Subaru pricing). So for someone like me that doesn't want to bother tuning, and re-tuning to get out what I think may be the last 2-3hp, the RB makes sense. The few days inconvenience isn't the best, but it does keep the cost low I'd suspect by keeping the flash equipment in RB's hands.

Now if I had a ported engine, or wanted something for FI, I guess I'd have to look elsewhere besides RB, and maybe then Cobb's Accessport/Tuner software is the answer. Personally, since I want FI, I would rather have something like Cobb's for the flexibility. But if RB offered a $300 FI reflash for my given application, I'd be happy with that also.

dmp

Is that a Racing Beat ECU thing? I can't see how reprogramming the ECU could cause a light to flash when the beep sounds.

hogcar

What he said!


Took mine out yesterday.