NRS Ceramic Apex Seals (1-Piece, OEM Height)
10-05-2010, 10:07 PM
#127
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It's not leaking from the fittings to the rails, I used aluminum washers & o-rings for that. It's leaking from the top of the injector to the rail, there's only an o-ring there. The OBX rails are just so dang fat that it makes putting on the top rail very difficult. Any tips?
10-06-2010, 01:45 AM
#128
What injectors are you using? If they are slightly different height then they will not seal properly.
The Primary rail was a PIA to get seated properly..but it is adjustable and as long as the injectors seat properly ( use stock type injectors...most others don't fit) I used Blue Denso ones for P1's..and 725CC Injector Dynamics injectors for Sec and P2's....should be lots of fuel there
The rest is getting the injectors and rail square and carefully tightening the bolts..just make sure the injectors don't bottom out in the rail..that will make them go crooked and they will leak
The Primary rail was a PIA to get seated properly..but it is adjustable and as long as the injectors seat properly ( use stock type injectors...most others don't fit) I used Blue Denso ones for P1's..and 725CC Injector Dynamics injectors for Sec and P2's....should be lots of fuel there
The rest is getting the injectors and rail square and carefully tightening the bolts..just make sure the injectors don't bottom out in the rail..that will make them go crooked and they will leak
10-06-2010, 07:02 AM
#129
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Definately got the right sized o-ring on there?
There's an imperial size that's very close to the originals but slightly taller and a touch wider if you still can't get them to seal...
There's an imperial size that's very close to the originals but slightly taller and a touch wider if you still can't get them to seal...
10-06-2010, 11:38 AM
#130
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What injectors are you using? If they are slightly different height then they will not seal properly.
The Primary rail was a PIA to get seated properly..but it is adjustable and as long as the injectors seat properly ( use stock type injectors...most others don't fit) I used Blue Denso ones for P1's..and 725CC Injector Dynamics injectors for Sec and P2's....should be lots of fuel there
The rest is getting the injectors and rail square and carefully tightening the bolts..just make sure the injectors don't bottom out in the rail..that will make them go crooked and they will leak
The Primary rail was a PIA to get seated properly..but it is adjustable and as long as the injectors seat properly ( use stock type injectors...most others don't fit) I used Blue Denso ones for P1's..and 725CC Injector Dynamics injectors for Sec and P2's....should be lots of fuel there
The rest is getting the injectors and rail square and carefully tightening the bolts..just make sure the injectors don't bottom out in the rail..that will make them go crooked and they will leak
Well I just used the o-rings that KG shipped them back with. Come to think of it though, the o-rings did look used.
10-12-2010, 12:22 PM
#134
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???????
The "taller" apex seals are needed due to the peripheral exhaust ports we are using. The RX8 OEM height apex seals do not have the beam strength to survive passing over the large hole of that exhaust port.
We were, as far as we know, the first ones to test the Ianetti ceramic RX8 seals in an engine way back in 2004. That combo was RX8 rotors in NA RX7 engine (peripheral exhaust ports). There was a slight problem with warping the seals (about 1/2 thou?) after many hours of racing with shifting between 9k and 10k on every shift.
So, even though our engine is an "RX8", because of the peripheral exhaust, it has to be viewed as an "RX7" in the apex seal height requirements and peripheral exhaust porting.
As for ceramic seals in boosted engines -- been using them for years.
Kyle Mohan's Mazdatrix/Nexen Tire Formula D engine (studded FD) is making right at 500rwhp at 23 pounds of boost, on 105 octane unleaded, with the same ceramic seals all year. We just went through the engine and everything looked great.
The Bergenholtz Formula D RX8 studded 20B we built is making something in excess of 650rwhp at about 17? pounds of boost. At their request, we also went through that engine recently and the ceramic apex seals were in great shape.
The "taller" apex seals are needed due to the peripheral exhaust ports we are using. The RX8 OEM height apex seals do not have the beam strength to survive passing over the large hole of that exhaust port.
We were, as far as we know, the first ones to test the Ianetti ceramic RX8 seals in an engine way back in 2004. That combo was RX8 rotors in NA RX7 engine (peripheral exhaust ports). There was a slight problem with warping the seals (about 1/2 thou?) after many hours of racing with shifting between 9k and 10k on every shift.
So, even though our engine is an "RX8", because of the peripheral exhaust, it has to be viewed as an "RX7" in the apex seal height requirements and peripheral exhaust porting.
As for ceramic seals in boosted engines -- been using them for years.
Kyle Mohan's Mazdatrix/Nexen Tire Formula D engine (studded FD) is making right at 500rwhp at 23 pounds of boost, on 105 octane unleaded, with the same ceramic seals all year. We just went through the engine and everything looked great.
The Bergenholtz Formula D RX8 studded 20B we built is making something in excess of 650rwhp at about 17? pounds of boost. At their request, we also went through that engine recently and the ceramic apex seals were in great shape.
10-12-2010, 01:01 PM
#135
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???????
The "taller" apex seals are needed due to the peripheral exhaust ports we are using. The RX8 OEM height apex seals do not have the beam strength to survive passing over the large hole of that exhaust port.
We were, as far as we know, the first ones to test the Ianetti ceramic RX8 seals in an engine way back in 2004. That combo was RX8 rotors in NA RX7 engine (peripheral exhaust ports). There was a slight problem with warping the seals (about 1/2 thou?) after many hours of racing with shifting between 9k and 10k on every shift.
So, even though our engine is an "RX8", because of the peripheral exhaust, it has to be viewed as an "RX7" in the apex seal height requirements and peripheral exhaust porting.
As for ceramic seals in boosted engines -- been using them for years.
Kyle Mohan's Mazdatrix/Nexen Tire Formula D engine (studded FD) is making right at 500rwhp at 23 pounds of boost, on 105 octane unleaded, with the same ceramic seals all year. We just went through the engine and everything looked great.
The Bergenholtz Formula D RX8 studded 20B we built is making something in excess of 650rwhp at about 17? pounds of boost. At their request, we also went through that engine recently and the ceramic apex seals were in great shape.
The "taller" apex seals are needed due to the peripheral exhaust ports we are using. The RX8 OEM height apex seals do not have the beam strength to survive passing over the large hole of that exhaust port.
We were, as far as we know, the first ones to test the Ianetti ceramic RX8 seals in an engine way back in 2004. That combo was RX8 rotors in NA RX7 engine (peripheral exhaust ports). There was a slight problem with warping the seals (about 1/2 thou?) after many hours of racing with shifting between 9k and 10k on every shift.
So, even though our engine is an "RX8", because of the peripheral exhaust, it has to be viewed as an "RX7" in the apex seal height requirements and peripheral exhaust porting.
As for ceramic seals in boosted engines -- been using them for years.
Kyle Mohan's Mazdatrix/Nexen Tire Formula D engine (studded FD) is making right at 500rwhp at 23 pounds of boost, on 105 octane unleaded, with the same ceramic seals all year. We just went through the engine and everything looked great.
The Bergenholtz Formula D RX8 studded 20B we built is making something in excess of 650rwhp at about 17? pounds of boost. At their request, we also went through that engine recently and the ceramic apex seals were in great shape.
But that info was definitly helpful regardless. Your build is definitely being watched closely and I'm certainly interested in the results. Great job so far though!
Last edited by JETS3T8; 11-16-2010 at 10:46 PM. Reason: none
11-17-2010, 12:36 PM
#140
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I already came to the conclusion that stock rx8 seals would never survive a peripheral port.. but what about these low rx8 style Ianettis? will they surive a peripheral intake port or is it a safer bet to machine the rotors for the taller old style sized ianettis?
Last edited by Rub20b; 11-18-2010 at 04:04 AM.
12-06-2010, 07:23 PM
#141
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the NRS ceramics seem to be working great in my buddies car..and best of all i think he paid 900 or so for them over $2000 on the ianetti....he has a stock port, however all the guys at the drag track in New Jersey told him that he should go with goopy metal apex seals if he uses peripheral exhaust...they said the ianettis will destroy the entire engine & turbo if they break due to detonation..
12-06-2010, 10:48 PM
#143
I still say - SHOW me the extra damage a ceramic seal does to a MSP, and then buy a steel seal.
They both might break, and they will both stay in the engine and break plates, housings and rotors. So why get a weaker seal just in the hopes it bends and doesn't break. If your that happy to drive a low compression car, then get low compression rotors and be done with it.
Go old school 8:1 static compression and 1334078 psi of boost.... been working for 20 years (just drives like ****).
They both might break, and they will both stay in the engine and break plates, housings and rotors. So why get a weaker seal just in the hopes it bends and doesn't break. If your that happy to drive a low compression car, then get low compression rotors and be done with it.
Go old school 8:1 static compression and 1334078 psi of boost.... been working for 20 years (just drives like ****).
12-07-2010, 08:22 AM
#145
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I still say - SHOW me the extra damage a ceramic seal does to a MSP, and then buy a steel seal.
They both might break, and they will both stay in the engine and break plates, housings and rotors. So why get a weaker seal just in the hopes it bends and doesn't break. If your that happy to drive a low compression car, then get low compression rotors and be done with it.
Go old school 8:1 static compression and 1334078 psi of boost.... been working for 20 years (just drives like ****).
They both might break, and they will both stay in the engine and break plates, housings and rotors. So why get a weaker seal just in the hopes it bends and doesn't break. If your that happy to drive a low compression car, then get low compression rotors and be done with it.
Go old school 8:1 static compression and 1334078 psi of boost.... been working for 20 years (just drives like ****).
when an engine detonates or leans out an iannetti ceramic seal will fracture into peices and ruin your rotor housing and if the particles come out the exhaust side they may ruin the turbo aswell...
Apex Seals DO NOT break plates
Low compresion from non-sealing of the apex seal and rotor compression are two
different things.
And i have seen 110-125compresion # from metal aftermarket apex seals.
Do your homework and see what the fastest most powerfull rotaries are using today.
http://www.jrspeed.com/
http://www.grs-motorsports.com/
http://www.agracingphoto.com/
http://www.torresconnextion.com/
http://wljphotography.com/index.html
http://www.goopyperformance.com/
http://vintagemazda.com/
http://vintagemazda.com/
12-07-2010, 08:56 AM
#147
I can see you dont have any experience with big hp...
when an engine detonates or leans out an iannetti ceramic seal will fracture into peices and ruin your rotor housing and if the particles come out the exhaust side they may ruin the turbo aswell...
Yup and metal ones just make sweet love to the engine on their way out...
At the risk of sounding like a broken record....MSP don't eject seals like earlier 13B's... that is sort of my point. A fractured piece of metal rattling around and a fractured piece of ceramic rattling around do serious damage, period.
Apex Seals DO NOT break plates
Low compresion from non-sealing of the apex seal and rotor compression are two
different things.
I know, it was sarcasm.... point being if you set up a motor JUST to be able to survive failure (and sacrificing power and more importantly drive-ability); then you might as well go all out and at least do it right.
And i have seen 110-125compresion # from metal aftermarket apex seals.
Do your homework and see what the fastest most powerful rotaries are using today.
when an engine detonates or leans out an iannetti ceramic seal will fracture into peices and ruin your rotor housing and if the particles come out the exhaust side they may ruin the turbo aswell...
Yup and metal ones just make sweet love to the engine on their way out...
At the risk of sounding like a broken record....MSP don't eject seals like earlier 13B's... that is sort of my point. A fractured piece of metal rattling around and a fractured piece of ceramic rattling around do serious damage, period.
Apex Seals DO NOT break plates
Low compresion from non-sealing of the apex seal and rotor compression are two
different things.
I know, it was sarcasm.... point being if you set up a motor JUST to be able to survive failure (and sacrificing power and more importantly drive-ability); then you might as well go all out and at least do it right.
And i have seen 110-125compresion # from metal aftermarket apex seals.
Do your homework and see what the fastest most powerful rotaries are using today.
12-07-2010, 11:17 AM
#150
Did I do my homework well?
Wanna promote apex seals? read this first. http://www.riceracing.com.au/apex-seals.htm .
Since you may be too stubborn to believe what you read there are pictures as well showing why you're wrong. I'm sure that steel seals will cut it in a 10 second drag race... how about a 45mins race?
We don't give a damn about the most powerful drag cars, we need engines that last at least a season of track days or get close to it. Same applies for daily drivers.
Please do us a favor and disappear for other 4 years.
kthxbye.