Kane

iTrader: (1)

When am I ever mean? I try to be civil.

Unless drunk, then I tend to tell it how it is....

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

gotta luv the RX7Clubbers showing up to tell us how it is when in reality they have little/no direct Renesis experience

bse50

The more i read this forum the more i get closer to understanding your assholish behavior

Mackmazda

I understand that the high compression is a bit harder to keep from leaning but its doable..I know a few 6port 13Bs with the stock 326 rotating assembly running 35lbs..they are not as high compression as the rennesis but not imposable and due to the side port on the renesis irons you have to use the stock rotors.

Rene from http://www.renesracing.com/contact.html ran a GSL-SE engine when he ran the rx3..he got into the 8s and had a least an 80mm turbo..Again this is a high compression engine.

i never mentioned stock apex seals but aftermarket apex seals...Very few people i know run stock mazda apex seals due to the tip of the larger apex cracking off.
Now with the aftermarket seals i have seen it again and again they bend, bow, wear in the center but they stay in one piece and do not damage the rotor housing like your picture...They engine just looses compression.

Most drag racers i know spend between 275-350 on apex seals, 100 on a gasket set and 150 on springs and run a full season of racing as appose to 2500 for just the iannetti seals. ..

I dont know why you think i am an rx7clubber or where you guys get your info but a few top drag racers in PR played with the rennesis back in 04-05..http://www.mechtechcollege.com/site/ which sponsors many race classes helped some of the pr guys get their hands on the renesis but they were not able to do what they could do with the 13Bs so the project tossed aside.

oh and one more time...apex seals to not cause the irons cracking issue.

(bse50) i think the only folks using hurley seals are brits..they are not used here in the east coast, florida or Puerto Rico. Again iannettis are garbage and if you really needed ceramics i would use NRS.

I dont understand why you are so boxed in..think outside the box people.
there are thousands or racers I know that have good feedback and why do we like lost sheep go to the first thing that comes up on google.

i understand rice racing has some good points but he is not the gospel on
apex seal technology...The ceramics that he exhausts are NRS seals..
and the do not make the most powerful cars on earth...NEVER!!!

bse50

Lol iannetti = garbage?
Why are they only ones that mazda offers through their motorsport program then?

Please stop fooling around, we don't seriously care about what this or that drag racer did.
Seals don't play a role in engine detonation if they're new, tuning does. So a metal seal worn in the middle will increase the blowby-blowback leading to detonation. A ceramic seal will less likely do that since its wear will be less "pronounced" in the middle.

However you're again too stubborn to even think about listening to us so just keep doing it your way. I will trust Rick engman's and other reputable builders' experience and choice over any self-assessed wankel guru.
With this said, i always use stock apex seals. I must be an idiot.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Actually, the whole (lose compression and rebuild engine thing) does have merit, as long as the seals don't crack or cause any debris in the engine.

That being said, I think for most non race teams... the amount of work would be on the high side. At the end of the day, long term reliability with the extra cost of a new housing or two should something go wrong is more "livable" for a street car than doing a full teardown every 10,000 miles.... unless you just REALLY like rebuilding rotaries.


And as the first RX8-13BMSP with NRS seals (at least as far as Sven knows when I asked) ... I can say they do just fine on my "low" power street car.

Mackmazda

Again bro think outside the box..the mazda motorsports program forces their racers to use iannettis..they dont give you a choice to use the NRS period..its politics. Rick engman and iannetti are also friends and they will stick together.
I dont think Racing beat, mazdatrix, mazdacom or Mazmart has even tried the NRS seals so they have no basis for an opinion on what the best apex seal is.
All these shops i mentioned will NOT sell or carry 2nd or third party parts they are too full of themselves. This is why they moved to road racing products and racing because they have nothing for the drag racers.

I know seals do not play a part in detonation..I was just responding to a previous comment. I said a metal aftermarket seal will bow or bend in case of leaning or detonation but they will stay in one piece.. the iannettis will shatter and ruin your engine period...And not your not an idiot by using stock apex seals
you just haven't pushed your engine to where we are and about 500-600 hp short of where i am right now. Sorry if i dont write that well..i have spent more time building engines then on a computer.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

You keep referrencing these east coast, Florida, and PR guys like you have wood for them or something. yet:

So then why don't YOU, whoever you are and however big and important you must be, go and make them all look foolish. Go ahead and build an alcohol Renesis on 30+lbs and double the power anyone else has ever achieved. When you do, we will all bow gracefully. Till then, **** off

you may not come from rx7club, but it doesnt change the profile you fit. 1)someone who sounds moderately or more experienced with prior 13B high power applications 2)someone who continually references how we do it on the older motors, but proposes no fresh ideas for the Renesis application

and this always ends the same way(remember, there've been dozens of you over the years) - eventually they go away, and surprisingly never build the ridiculous stuff propose. either they were all smoke up the ***, or eventually realize how dumb they were

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

so what? I have a FEW turbines that that flow at least 50X's more than anything you've ever had.

ps, I'm actually talking about a water pump in my fire trucks, but i'll play stupid and pretend its comparable. hopefully no one will notice, and i will be taken seriously
feckin idiot...

seriously man. just shut up and go prove us wrong, just imagine how good it would feel to do that

bse50

Nrs, Iannetti... whatever they all are good ceramic seals. I was just referencing to your hate for said brand.
If you detonate at the power levels you're talking about the seals will be toast anyway.
IF serious detonation occurs then bent or broken doesn't mean much since a rebuild is mandatory. A bent seal will most likely grind the housing, a broken one will do some damage as well.
What's important is how they seal when the engine is running well, ceramics take the edge there.
Longevity is another point that should be addressed. Again, ceramics usually take the edge there
Price wise... steel or metal ones win.
Metallurgy is serious business and that's why most diy rotary shops just can't get close to the quality level of Mazda oem seals and the reason why i keep using them. Keep in mind that we don't drag race, we use the steering wheel as well so the engine is used in a whole different way.

The sentences i bolded from your post don't make sense. How does the fact that they're too full of themselves relate to drag vs road racing?

Anyway ceramic seals are great, that's the only truth that matters. Useless in most applications (street driven car, track day toy etc) but outstanding nonetheless.
Breaking vs bending seems like your only point but then again who cares if they break or bend? you'd have to rebuild the engine COMPLETELY anyway! Plus i've seen steel seals break. Moot point

Just go and build your monster the way you like it to be, your goal is an engine that lasts 10 seconds anyway, i would go crazy if mine didn't last 100 track hours

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Since it was brought up during the name dropping, I thought this was an interesting tidbit in another NRS thread.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

I like the irony in who is quoted there...

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I have a lot to say on this topic but I will restrict it.

First of all, Rene is a friend of mine and he uses Ianetti apex seals. Secondly, Dr Iannetti is a friend of mine. He is a scientist, a professor of metallurgy and he does work under contract for NASA among very significant companies including Mazdaspeed and some of the fastest drag racers in Puerto Rico and Australia. We have used NOTHING BUT IANNETTI seals since 1990 in all the Downing Atlanta race cars including 26B and R26B. There are reasons why they are the ultimate for NA and cost what they cost and there are reasons why some racers like them for high boost drag applications as well. They are not for everyone. If their price was only to restrict the untrained and ignorant that would be a good deterrent from ruining reputations.

I find it interesting that some people are building engines thinking about the consequences of catastrophic failure while on a budget. Real drag racers have no intention of running an engine all season long and don't have small pocket books. The other sharp people are building taking every precaution of durability and longevity with A/F fuel ratios, intake air temps, ignition timing and more worked out to a science. You can't overheat an engine, shrink it's housings and then blame any seal manufacturer for failure or any of the dozens of things that people can screw up (Missing a shift and running 13k rpm or more).

The long and the short of my rant: Please don't come here and think you're going to bad mouth my ultra hard working, very talented manufacturing partner and friend Dr Iannetti. Praise NRS all you want but don't spew uninformed nonsense around about Iannetti.

Paul.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Yes - happened to me twice . Now run bendy metal seals and they seem to be the goods .But was wondering if they come in one piece ?

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Pica Racing has just broke a record again. Guess what seals?

They begin with an I.

6.98 at 198 mph, 13B. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxcloB0BqpA

I'm done hijacking for now.

Paul.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Iannettis seals are garbage ? ...

You know its Mazda who asked Dr. Iannetti to build those Ceramic seals right ? and its been proven to last by many many MANY races.

Do you even know who and what Dr. Iannetti does for a living ?

NRS makes good stuff but calling Iannetti seals garbage simply means you don't know **** and your creditably automatically drops to zero.

and its funny you keep saying Renny/13bs ... my god the Renesis is part of the god damn 13B family. what the ...

Its time for you to go away, cuz no body gives a **** about ur bullshit anyway.

09Factor

There is just something about the sound of an open exhaust and spooled turbo!
Mmmm MMMM mmmm Mmmmm Good

glassman

Good show!

Here's the first into the 6's done in 2007 Guess what seals?

JETS3T8

The previous compression test results were way off due to incorrect calibration of the software. (my bad)
Here are the updated results:

Conditions:
-Ambient temp: 65 F
-Cranking RPM: 250RPM
-Engine Temp ~180 to 185 F
-Side seals hand clearanced to .004"
-Rotor Housings only 5K miles from factory refurb. motor

Front Rotor(psi):
128.64, 119.78, 119.30

Rear Rotor(psi):
135.19, 126.88, 123.67

I was able to reproduce these numbers to within 2-4psi each time I performed the test.

glassman

Hey Richie,
Nice comp #'s for 1pc seals huh?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Hello glassman(Sven)

Is my seals coming? or another couple of weeks?

u know, from the dude who tried to wired you $$$ but stupid bank rejected me and cost me 30 bux and finally got it thru on the 2nd try

not for this engine, for the FC NA

not trying to push ya, just checking up on things.

oh if you dont mind you can pm me for the seal price for Renesis ? (same 2 pc stock like seal, cuz I want easier cold start up)

glassman

You are absolutely correct they do not give you a choice. Dave Gibson of Speed Machine Performance is a perfect example. He had NRS seals in the RX8 drift car and was told to remove them, only factory parts were allowed. When he questioned them saying Iannetti seals are not factory parts............................................. ..... long pause and no comment, you just can't use them.

It's a shame........
Perhaps these racers should be approaching Mazda and insisting on NRS as a much better and cheaper option. Unless they like bending over grabbing their ankles

glassman

No worries everything is on schedule and the parts will be finished around the end of the month.

Turblown

Are you speaking of the Falken Drift car? He ran our stud kits in all his engines, and never had to take them out because there weren't stock..

From what I've seen the NRS seals definitely look like the hot ticket for great compression.

glassman

Yup the Falken Tire Drift car. Not sure on the stud kits, maybe it's just my parts that directly conflict with Iannetti seals. Either way it's b.s. because Dave wanted to use NRS.