mepault

I'm looking to see if anyone has any experience passing their emission test with a Greddy (or any) turbo kit and what the possible solutions might be.

I live in CA and have the bolt-on kit installed on my 2004 RX-8 (installed and tuned in 2005). The only other modification is a SP2 Greddy exhaust (original Cat still installed).

I just had the car tested today and it failed in the "HC(PPM)" category. The reading for this needed to be less than 55 (at 15 MPH) and 39 (at 25 MPH). The car measured at 132 (at 15 MPH) and 108 (at 25 MPH). The car was well below the CO(%) and NO(PPM) part of the test.

The mechanic told me that the car basically failed for the Cat, but that was probably due to the higher fuel levels (running a little rich).

I called my tuner to see if there is a way he can tune the car so that it will pass however, the mechanic said that if the car was tuned not to run so rich, it will probably run the CO levels way up. I'm thinking that my only other potion will be to bypass the turbo somehow temporarily or take it off completely (which I wouldn't do anyway).

Any thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated!

gregs

iTrader: (7)

what engine management are you running? i would like to see what the end result will be, i will eventually need a smog too..can you post up additional engine mods you currently have to.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Do they use a "Sniffer" in California?

gregs

iTrader: (7)

yep. theres a sniffer test (15 mph and 25pmh on dyno)

mepault

I am running the Greddy E-manage that came with the kit (it was the earlier edition; 2004). Also, there have been no other mods to the engine.

TrochoidMagic

i simply don't see how you're going to pass w/o a cat!

you can lean the mixture, and NOX will rise. CO will climb as well from the lean mixture and the temps.
so it seems whatever you do, you don't have a cat to clean up the byproducts...

i'm lost as to how you even passed a visual?

look into a cleaner fuel if you plan to retune without a cat. there are ways...

gregs

iTrader: (7)

He states he has a stock cat installed..visual will def. fail but you can convince some spots to overlook visual as long as it passes the sniffer, on a properly tuned turbo car can pass the sniffer, its a 15 & 25 mph test where no boost levels are reached

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

in addition to tuning, the the cat converter may be on the way out or you just need a better one

mepault

My tuner called and said he should be able to tune the car enough to pass the emissions, so that's good. I'll put up a post after I get it tested again.

Also, my friend was telling me that it would be possible to pass the test by adding some fuel additive (octaine booster). Has anyone ever tried that and can confirm that it works?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

it is possible to pass emissions with a turbo but the smog tech will obviously need to "overlook" the visual inspection or you'll fail the second he looks under the hood.
With the catalytic and a conservative tune, you might pass the sniffer test.


oh, and octane booster won't help you much.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Agreed.

Have your tunner tune the vehicle to stock AFR and timing for non boost conditions, such as the 15 and 25 MPH dyno test. If your tune is right and your cat is working within spec, you will pass the functional test with no problem.

However-

Turbo or any forced induction on an RX8 is an automatic visual failure in california. If the smog tech is going to overlook the turbo, he might as well clean pipe the vehicle for you.

Now if you actual care even a little about the enviroment and the air we breath, you should have it tunned properly anyways. There is no reason to be running super rich or having the timing very retarded during non boost conditions. Your only using more fuel and polluting our air.

The whole approved or non approved (carb certification) process in california is all about money. Aftermarket parts companies spend 10's of thousands of dollars in some cases to get parts approved and issued a carb number. So in may cases, the companies never even try to get them approved because it doesnt make financial sense. Dont get me wrong, some parts should never be legal on a street vehicle because its envirometaly irresponibile, however there is nothing wrong with a turbo if tunned properly.

Lastly, you could get your car to pass the emmisions test and be issued an illegal smog check, however is doesnt get you out of the woods. One stop by a cop that knows cars and the smog rules and you will be in the system and off to the bar referee. Then the turbo will be coming off for sure.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

you should look into a better cat since you're FI.
http://www.davesport.com/cgi-bin/davesport/DCAT100.html
that comes highly recommended by some members here who have tracked their cars and it should hold up well even with your turbo EGT's.
Note that it is not a direct swap part, you'll need to have that welded into a pipe and installed on your car. (ie; you could cut out your OEM cat and have that welded in, etc)

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Yes, you can have my last Bud Light ....

Ratoon56

My Uncle had a built TA and he always took it to AZ to have it tested.

mepault

- Update after the test -

Looks like there's a bigger problem that has ultimately caused the car to fail the emissions. I've noticed since having the emission test done that the car seems to be losing power and not boosting as much. Well, turns out the cat is shot and needs to be replaced. Ontop of that, my tuner is now telling me that the turbine in the turbo is loose (due to all the back pressure) so it will have to be rebuilt or replaced. Greaaaaaat . . . . I'm now looking into shoping around for a good exauhst builder to install the aftermarket cat. I'll prob go with Jedi54's suggestion. Then I'll be looking for someone to rebuild the turbo.

gregs

iTrader: (7)

if it is in your budget you should look into doing the BNR turbo upgrade, if not.. im sure he can still offer a regular rebuild for much less..if you do the upgrade that should be the last time you will need the rebuild being that he addresses some of the flaws the greddy td06 has

mepault

Can you elabirate more on that? What are the flaws on the TD06 turbo?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Rebuilding the GReddy turbo is about $12.

ShowandDriftRX8

I just tried at one shop in nor cal and failed the visual but the emmisions were super clean and would pass with flying colors. Current mods are greddy turbo, accessport with MM base map, greddy exhaust, stock cat.

Does anyone know of a shop in Nor Cal that will "overlook" the visual? PM me if you know anywhere please.

Junirol

iTrader: (24)

lol man i hate the strick emissions here in california can't really do anything to our cars. I wanna hear someone passing emissions with FI, is it even possible with FI? But there is a saying, "Its only illegal if you get caught."

Winning 8

You could pass smog with a turbo kit but Greddy have to provide you the smog certificate stick for you to pass visual inspection, and non of the turbo or super charger kit right now on the market provided you that sticker.
You going to get caught every two year by the state emission test.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

If someone has a buddy or knows a guy who will overlook the turbo at pass the car on visual, don't post that info. California BAR guys have been known to use google searches for this type of thread.

The california smog system is more about money then clean air. The testing procesess a company must go through to get a turbo kit certified is very extensive and the applicaton/review fees start at around $5K for something much simplar like an intake. A turbo probably runs twice that much.

Additionaly, the kit would be required to have no user adjustable parts and must retain all factory emissions equipment and it must work as designed.

Is a kit possible to produce and certify? Yes very. But not many companys want to gamble and spend the money in hopes the sell enough kits to make a good profit on their investment.

In a perfect world, they do a functional tail pipe test and if it passes you get a cert.