possible location for a 3rd oil cooler
05-14-2007, 07:50 PM
#26
mocal and fluidyne have coolers that will work----you would have to change your plumbing fittings. Like MM says our coolers do not scrub heat well
i believe Jay Goldberg installed a 3nd cooler last year a low profile fluidyne one across the front-low part of the airdam.
The units are out there--speed source run mocals i believe. If I was to fi you better be damn sure I would install better oil coolers. And a better water pump(mazmart when it is ready!!) No flame to anyone on that meant.
I believe 260 on the street with those ambient temps. I also believe in ticking time bombs!
olddragger
i believe Jay Goldberg installed a 3nd cooler last year a low profile fluidyne one across the front-low part of the airdam.
The units are out there--speed source run mocals i believe. If I was to fi you better be damn sure I would install better oil coolers. And a better water pump(mazmart when it is ready!!) No flame to anyone on that meant.
I believe 260 on the street with those ambient temps. I also believe in ticking time bombs!
olddragger
05-14-2007, 07:54 PM
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sorry to going off topic for a split second, but olddragger I've noticed you kept on spelling "3nd cooler", but shouldn't it be "3rd cooler"? lol. Anyways, sorry, I am being very annoying. 
Who where you asking...exactly what 
05-15-2007, 12:59 AM
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The car is bone stock. I'm planning on using it on HPDE days. I've never driven a street car on the track, but in the 9 or so years I've been road racing, I've spent my fair share of time panicing on the false grid watching my temps go through the roof. I've chatted a bit via PM with OD and his insights have led me to believe that I may face some serious cooling problems in the heat of summer, at least on the track.
I think rotarygod summarized my feelings on the subject nicely: You don't need to have a problem before you make something better or more efficient. I'd rather have too much oil and water cooling ability and then let the thermostats take care of it rather than having too little and wondering what will happen in the longterm. -RG
05-15-2007, 11:32 AM
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05-15-2007, 12:59 PM
#36
The locatin of the coolers and their proximity to the asphault should not be underestimated.
There have been days that I have gotten on I-10 with an ambient temp of 105°F and watched the thermo display climb to over 130°F.
The actual surface temp can be as high as 160°F!
There have been days that I have gotten on I-10 with an ambient temp of 105°F and watched the thermo display climb to over 130°F.
The actual surface temp can be as high as 160°F!
05-15-2007, 01:40 PM
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While I don't feel its very helpful or productive to ask me that, I'll dignify it with a response:
The car is bone stock. I'm planning on using it on HPDE days. I've never driven a street car on the track, but in the 9 or so years I've been road racing, I've spent my fair share of time panicing on the false grid watching my temps go through the roof. I've chatted a bit via PM with OD and his insights have led me to believe that I may face some serious cooling problems in the heat of summer, at least on the track.
I think rotarygod summarized my feelings on the subject nicely: You don't need to have a problem before you make something better or more efficient. I'd rather have too much oil and water cooling ability and then let the thermostats take care of it rather than having too little and wondering what will happen in the longterm. -RG
The car is bone stock. I'm planning on using it on HPDE days. I've never driven a street car on the track, but in the 9 or so years I've been road racing, I've spent my fair share of time panicing on the false grid watching my temps go through the roof. I've chatted a bit via PM with OD and his insights have led me to believe that I may face some serious cooling problems in the heat of summer, at least on the track.
I think rotarygod summarized my feelings on the subject nicely: You don't need to have a problem before you make something better or more efficient. I'd rather have too much oil and water cooling ability and then let the thermostats take care of it rather than having too little and wondering what will happen in the longterm. -RG
Point being, in my experience, with factory, NA power levels our cooling system is more than up to task for HPDE events. I'd be more worried about better brake pads and fluids than this.
05-15-2007, 02:08 PM
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Personally, I think a third oil cooler is overkill on an "NA" RX-8. Oil temps running the "stock" dual oil cooler setup on my '93 RX-7 R1 roughly parallel my water temps. In fact, in the middle of winter I have a hard time getting my oil temps warm ENOUGH when running down the freeway. That being said, install aftermarket water and oil temp gauges, take it to the track, run a few sessions to gather data to FIRST determine if you have a problem, then take action (if necessary). Just my .02.
05-15-2007, 02:59 PM
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Regret usually isn't a trait that is associated with those who believe in overkill. The opposite isn't necessarily true though. I see no waste of time or money in making something more efficient or giving it extra capacity. I do see time and money being wasted by those who do things again though. It's not to say an upgrade is needed but you get the point.
05-15-2007, 03:23 PM
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Regret usually isn't a trait that is associated with those who believe in overkill. The opposite isn't necessarily true though. I see no waste of time or money in making something more efficient or giving it extra capacity. I do see time and money being wasted by those who do things again though. It's not to say an upgrade is needed but you get the point.
05-15-2007, 05:02 PM
#42
lots of good things being said. i do agree on one thing in particular---get gauges and see were you are. You would not want to modify and cooling system--be it coolant or oil without gauges. So get them. Find out if your enviroment, in your car/set up, and your driving style whether there is a need and exactly what that need is(in reference to cooling).
From day one I have always said --get gauges. if your track in any car---get gauges.
i will guarantee one thing. if you are in the middle of a session on a 80f day and the red flag is flown, then you HAVE to stop ---right? Well once you do in about 15 secs you will start seeing the oil temp gauges moving straight up. If I had not had gauges I will bet you the oil temp would have been risen to 260. I shut her down(painfully) as the temps nudged past 240f and was climbing fast. it was another couple of minutes before the permission was given to roll again. The a/c trick to activate the fans(before i had early fan activation) did not help with the oil temps--coolant temps were not off the chart.
Temps on the street can rise very quickly also--but you always have options on the street.
As I get more experience on the track--and learn more--I start driving harder. That is when I think i am going to have to address the oil cooling . I think it may be this year. I think I will have to add a thermostat and replace one cooler with a better design. This remains to be seen. But it is my main look out this summer.
olddragger
olddragger
From day one I have always said --get gauges. if your track in any car---get gauges.
i will guarantee one thing. if you are in the middle of a session on a 80f day and the red flag is flown, then you HAVE to stop ---right? Well once you do in about 15 secs you will start seeing the oil temp gauges moving straight up. If I had not had gauges I will bet you the oil temp would have been risen to 260. I shut her down(painfully) as the temps nudged past 240f and was climbing fast. it was another couple of minutes before the permission was given to roll again. The a/c trick to activate the fans(before i had early fan activation) did not help with the oil temps--coolant temps were not off the chart.
Temps on the street can rise very quickly also--but you always have options on the street.
As I get more experience on the track--and learn more--I start driving harder. That is when I think i am going to have to address the oil cooling . I think it may be this year. I think I will have to add a thermostat and replace one cooler with a better design. This remains to be seen. But it is my main look out this summer.
olddragger
olddragger
05-15-2007, 05:25 PM
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i will guarantee one thing. if you are in the middle of a session on a 80f day and the red flag is flown, then you HAVE to stop ---right? Well once you do in about 15 secs you will start seeing the oil temp gauges moving straight up. If I had not had gauges I will bet you the oil temp would have been risen to 260. I shut her down(painfully) as the temps nudged past 240f and was climbing fast. it was another couple of minutes before the permission was given to roll again. The a/c trick to activate the fans(before i had early fan activation) did not help with the oil temps--coolant temps were not off the chart.
olddragger
olddragger
...which is exaclty what drift cars experience between runs and why that RX8 has blowers on the oil coolers
05-15-2007, 05:54 PM
#44
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Larger oil coolers and oil cooler fans would probably do the trick.
You should not see oil temps ENTERING the engine exceed 210*F so if you are getting above this, you REALLY need to address the issue.
You should not see oil temps ENTERING the engine exceed 210*F so if you are getting above this, you REALLY need to address the issue.
05-16-2007, 03:43 AM
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lots of good things being said. i do agree on one thing in particular---get gauges and see were you are. You would not want to modify and cooling system--be it coolant or oil without gauges. So get them. Find out if your enviroment, in your car/set up, and your driving style whether there is a need and exactly what that need is(in reference to cooling).
From day one I have always said --get gauges. if your track in any car---get gauges.
i will guarantee one thing. if you are in the middle of a session on a 80f day and the red flag is flown, then you HAVE to stop ---right? Well once you do in about 15 secs you will start seeing the oil temp gauges moving straight up. If I had not had gauges I will bet you the oil temp would have been risen to 260. I shut her down(painfully) as the temps nudged past 240f and was climbing fast. it was another couple of minutes before the permission was given to roll again. The a/c trick to activate the fans(before i had early fan activation) did not help with the oil temps--coolant temps were not off the chart.
Temps on the street can rise very quickly also--but you always have options on the street.
As I get more experience on the track--and learn more--I start driving harder. That is when I think i am going to have to address the oil cooling . I think it may be this year. I think I will have to add a thermostat and replace one cooler with a better design. This remains to be seen. But it is my main look out this summer.
olddragger
olddragger
From day one I have always said --get gauges. if your track in any car---get gauges.
i will guarantee one thing. if you are in the middle of a session on a 80f day and the red flag is flown, then you HAVE to stop ---right? Well once you do in about 15 secs you will start seeing the oil temp gauges moving straight up. If I had not had gauges I will bet you the oil temp would have been risen to 260. I shut her down(painfully) as the temps nudged past 240f and was climbing fast. it was another couple of minutes before the permission was given to roll again. The a/c trick to activate the fans(before i had early fan activation) did not help with the oil temps--coolant temps were not off the chart.
Temps on the street can rise very quickly also--but you always have options on the street.
As I get more experience on the track--and learn more--I start driving harder. That is when I think i am going to have to address the oil cooling . I think it may be this year. I think I will have to add a thermostat and replace one cooler with a better design. This remains to be seen. But it is my main look out this summer.
olddragger
olddragger
While I apreciate the insights on to weather or not additional cooling is needed, this is a discussion limited to possible improvements to the system. This is not a debate as to weather said modifications are necessary.
I've spent too much money in my life on racing equipment damaged by overheating to not be concerned by some of the oil temp talk on this forum. This car is my daily driver, and it would be more troublesome to have it suffer some horrible fate at the track than my race car (which is sans motor, thanks departed valve seat!).
05-16-2007, 10:28 AM
#47
GOOD THINKING!
If it was me I would go with cooler replacement rather than adding the 3nd. Check out summitt racing--they have a good selection of fans available --I have my eye on the 7" one. They also have some pretty good coolers--I know they are a great company to deal with--great support. But if i replaced a cooler I think it would be with a mocal one. I know Jay used a 3nd low profile fluidyne cooler mounted in the bottom of the air dam right before the a/c condenser . He didnt use any fans.
As dan has said the 2nd gen cooler is a better one also. I like the idea of a single fan for when needed on the street and during those cool down times on the track. Thermostatic activation for the fan is available.
Do consider a thermostat as you also dont want to be too cool or have long warm ups.
I still do not advocate screens for the oil coolers.
This w/e there is a time trial 8 running--not in our regular group--i will see if he has modded anything concerning this.
olddragger
If it was me I would go with cooler replacement rather than adding the 3nd. Check out summitt racing--they have a good selection of fans available --I have my eye on the 7" one. They also have some pretty good coolers--I know they are a great company to deal with--great support. But if i replaced a cooler I think it would be with a mocal one. I know Jay used a 3nd low profile fluidyne cooler mounted in the bottom of the air dam right before the a/c condenser . He didnt use any fans.
As dan has said the 2nd gen cooler is a better one also. I like the idea of a single fan for when needed on the street and during those cool down times on the track. Thermostatic activation for the fan is available.
Do consider a thermostat as you also dont want to be too cool or have long warm ups.
I still do not advocate screens for the oil coolers.
This w/e there is a time trial 8 running--not in our regular group--i will see if he has modded anything concerning this.
olddragger
05-16-2007, 10:36 AM
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GOOD THINKING!
If it was me I would go with cooler replacement rather than adding the 3nd. Check out summitt racing--they have a good selection of fans available --I have my eye on the 7" one. They also have some pretty good coolers--I know they are a great company to deal with--great support. But if i replaced a cooler I think it would be with a mocal one. I know Jay used a 3nd low profile fluidyne cooler mounted in the bottom of the air dam right before the a/c condenser . He didnt use any fans.
As dan has said the 2nd gen cooler is a better one also. I like the idea of a single fan for when needed on the street and during those cool down times on the track. Thermostatic activation for the fan is available.
Do consider a thermostat as you also dont want to be too cool or have long warm ups.
I still do not advocate screens for the oil coolers.
This w/e there is a time trial 8 running--not in our regular group--i will see if he has modded anything concerning this.
olddragger
If it was me I would go with cooler replacement rather than adding the 3nd. Check out summitt racing--they have a good selection of fans available --I have my eye on the 7" one. They also have some pretty good coolers--I know they are a great company to deal with--great support. But if i replaced a cooler I think it would be with a mocal one. I know Jay used a 3nd low profile fluidyne cooler mounted in the bottom of the air dam right before the a/c condenser . He didnt use any fans.
As dan has said the 2nd gen cooler is a better one also. I like the idea of a single fan for when needed on the street and during those cool down times on the track. Thermostatic activation for the fan is available.
Do consider a thermostat as you also dont want to be too cool or have long warm ups.
I still do not advocate screens for the oil coolers.
This w/e there is a time trial 8 running--not in our regular group--i will see if he has modded anything concerning this.
olddragger
Also, there is always talk about a more efficient water pump, but what about a more efficient oil pump? Maybe something Mazmart would be interested in...caviation is maybe not an issue due to the properties of the oil vs. water, but pumping more volume maybe? I don't know, just throwing things out there...
05-16-2007, 10:51 AM
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