possible location for a 3rd oil cooler
#51
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What you smoking this morning
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The oil pump is fairly integrated...it isn't an easy thing to change. When you rebuild your engine...there are mods to the oil channels etc that might be applicable to the Renesis...I'm hoping Charles will have a goo look on his rebuild project and see what can be done
#52
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What you smoking this morning
The oil doesn't magically circulate through the engine ![Big Grin](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
The oil pump is fairly integrated...it isn't an easy thing to change. When you rebuild your engine...there are mods to the oil channels etc that might be applicable to the Renesis...I'm hoping Charles will have a goo look on his rebuild project and see what can be done
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The oil pump is fairly integrated...it isn't an easy thing to change. When you rebuild your engine...there are mods to the oil channels etc that might be applicable to the Renesis...I'm hoping Charles will have a goo look on his rebuild project and see what can be done
#53
I've been thinking alot lately about adding a 3rd oil cooler in series somewhere in the car. I've been motivated by alot of OD's post regarding temps, and the flow problems created by many of the protective screens that are commonly used to protect the two stock coolers.
My thought was possibly relocating the battery to the trunk and placing an oil cooler where it used to be. Then cutting a NACA type duct in the hood or the nose to direct cool, fresh air into the oil cooler.
The main downside I see is the lack of any place to vent out the air which has passed through the new oil cooler. Also, it will be right next to the air intake possibly heating it up. It may also be hard to find a good way to route the lines etc.
I'm sure there are probably reasons people haven't tried this already, but I'd like to hear others thoughts on this.
Thank You.
My thought was possibly relocating the battery to the trunk and placing an oil cooler where it used to be. Then cutting a NACA type duct in the hood or the nose to direct cool, fresh air into the oil cooler.
The main downside I see is the lack of any place to vent out the air which has passed through the new oil cooler. Also, it will be right next to the air intake possibly heating it up. It may also be hard to find a good way to route the lines etc.
I'm sure there are probably reasons people haven't tried this already, but I'd like to hear others thoughts on this.
Thank You.
-Fluidyne
-Mocal
-B&M
Also, don't forget the external thermostat if you go with a custom cooler.
#54
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from my recollection, the reason the stock oil coolers are so small is because of the air opening on the front bumper...
My plans on upgrading the oil cooler is going too happen after I get a different front bumper, specifically the Accolade C-spec.
What point does oil cooling exist for if the only air cooling you are supplying is a fan? Change the stock ones first...
My plans on upgrading the oil cooler is going too happen after I get a different front bumper, specifically the Accolade C-spec.
What point does oil cooling exist for if the only air cooling you are supplying is a fan? Change the stock ones first...
#55
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The oil pump is bolted to the front plate underneath the front cover. I'm waiting for Charles' plates to arrive here so I can port them. I'll look into the oil passages. I want to see how they're different from the 13B and if the same mods apply.
#57
Baro Rex
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An oil/air intercooler can be significantly larger than the opening that leads to it. The cooler its self blocks the majority of the air flow and funnels it through its passageways. A 1ft² opening might flow enough air to support 2ft² of heat exchanger. Extra air flows around or stagnates against the cooler. When the exchanger is larger than the opening, ducting becomes a little more important to encourage the air to flow through the extra face space of the cooler and not the empty space that might be accessible to a near side.
Sooo.......if you replace your oil coolers, you can go a little larger if you can fit it. If the cooler extends passed the clear opening a fair amount, you might want to work out some ducting to spread the air more predictably.
Hmmm........ Seeing as the oil coolers are primarily in front of the wheel wells, how much would a vent in the wheel well liner improve flow? Maybe it wouldn't help at all.
Sooo.......if you replace your oil coolers, you can go a little larger if you can fit it. If the cooler extends passed the clear opening a fair amount, you might want to work out some ducting to spread the air more predictably.
Hmmm........ Seeing as the oil coolers are primarily in front of the wheel wells, how much would a vent in the wheel well liner improve flow? Maybe it wouldn't help at all.
#58
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I thought I would get someone's attention hehe with that.
There are pretty good vents in the wheelwell liner--behind the stock coolers, it is a little crowded.
One interesting thing i have noticed is if you coast for just a little(1/8 mile?), oil temps will drop about 10 degrees on mine. Absent of so many flame fronts? Slowing of the oil being pumped giving it more time in the coolers therefore exposed to more airflow? Both? ---probably.
I agree is replacing the oem or the oems. I also like a fan for "those" occasions.
Has anyone counted how many rows we have?
OD
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There are pretty good vents in the wheelwell liner--behind the stock coolers, it is a little crowded.
One interesting thing i have noticed is if you coast for just a little(1/8 mile?), oil temps will drop about 10 degrees on mine. Absent of so many flame fronts? Slowing of the oil being pumped giving it more time in the coolers therefore exposed to more airflow? Both? ---probably.
I agree is replacing the oem or the oems. I also like a fan for "those" occasions.
Has anyone counted how many rows we have?
OD
#59
Baro Rex
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I need to get my gauges installed. This way I can play with numbers too!
#61
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The other 2 modes of heat transfer will just try to heat up the chassis and bake the airdam.
#63
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I haven't really considered adding another oil cooler myself yet, but I do enjoy reading threads about design improvements. My initial thoughts would lead more toward improving air flow to the existing coolers and/or replacing the OEM coolers with higher efficiency ones. I don't actually know what the core material of the stock oil coolers is. Next time I feel the need to pull one of my wheel well liners, I'll take a better look at the pathing. R0tor is absolutely correct. Air being an excellent conductive insulator, if it does not flow for convective heat transfer, your performance sucks.
#64
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http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
I'm thinking that maybe using just one of these behind one of the oil coolers might work well. It could be switched with a thermostat. I think it will fit, and it moves quite a bit of air, 1800cfm.
I'm thinking that maybe using just one of these behind one of the oil coolers might work well. It could be switched with a thermostat. I think it will fit, and it moves quite a bit of air, 1800cfm.
#65
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I have this one from Fluidyne hanging in front of my intercooler. Its plumbed in-line with the stock coolers. Its just about the most efficient cooler available. Made for NASCAR. In fact, I bought mine from a NASCAR team.
With regards to allowing the oil to heat to operating temps rapidly enough: the stock coolers have a thermostat. Oil won't circulate until the thermostat opens. So, plumbing it like I did means that the additional cooler isn't contributing to longer warm-up times.
With regards to allowing the oil to heat to operating temps rapidly enough: the stock coolers have a thermostat. Oil won't circulate until the thermostat opens. So, plumbing it like I did means that the additional cooler isn't contributing to longer warm-up times.
#67
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well just completed a 3 day track w/e. approx 250 miles on the track completed. ambient temps highs mid to upper 80's. I TRIED TO GET THE OIL TEMPS OVER 230F by running HARD, keeping revs between 6.5-9.2 all the time. For approx 20 mins of hard driving. Only one straight on this track(Roebling Rd savannah) in which speeds were over 100mph. Oil temp never when over 230F. Coolant temp never went over 205.
AND once I backed off--temps came right down. On cool down lap temps dropped to approx 190-200 F oil and 180F coolant. I was using 10/40w royal purple and i run a 65/35 blend coolant. No screens and rotor symbol in the front air dam removed. undrive pulley on.
I know once ambient temps get over 95 things may change--but for right now --i'm good.
I used approx 2 quarts of oil on those tracks days. Thats good.
OD
AND once I backed off--temps came right down. On cool down lap temps dropped to approx 190-200 F oil and 180F coolant. I was using 10/40w royal purple and i run a 65/35 blend coolant. No screens and rotor symbol in the front air dam removed. undrive pulley on.
I know once ambient temps get over 95 things may change--but for right now --i'm good.
I used approx 2 quarts of oil on those tracks days. Thats good.
OD
#69
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measuring from rb oil filter adaptor--mechanical gauge. pressures and temp. I would like to see what the return from the 2nd cooler is but havent had time to rig one up.
coolant tempt from heater hose--i dont like that as well as the radiator hose or engine itself, but what the hell.
olddragger
coolant tempt from heater hose--i dont like that as well as the radiator hose or engine itself, but what the hell.
olddragger
#72
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Why not just run 230* coolant temps too? Oil is the only COOLANT for your rotors! 1/3rd of the total engine heat goes out the oil system. It has nothing to do with the oil breaking down over 210*F. Yes the higher the oil temps the shorter the life span but 210* isn't enough to kill it quickly. It's all about cooling. A higher quality oil can't help that aspect of it's job in a rotary.
#73
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RG--one thing I am curious about is the coolant temp vs oil temp. At certain times I can have a 15-20 degree differance(since my fans now activate at 180F) example coolant 185---oil 200. In recips i know that really doesnt matter much but in the rotory ---welll---i dont know. The most i have seen is 30 degrees for a short period of time on the track. i have seen 20 degrees on the street rarely.. . Concerns? or not
olddragger
olddragger
#74
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Your oil and coolant temps "should" be within literally a few degrees of each other if everything is done right. When are temps at their greatest range? Is it while moving or while sitting still? If one is higher than the other, you know which one to improve. I know people say that a certain temp is fine for the oil. That may be so but what is optimum for the engine is different.