Question about flywheels
07-08-2009, 08:53 AM
#1
Rotary Power!
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Question about flywheels
Im starting to save up for a project for my 04 rx8. Im planning on getting a 09 rx8 manual tranmission installed along with that i want to get a lightweight flywheel and clutch put in while im at it. Now i have a couple of questions. Since this is an 09 transmission when i look up flywheels and clutches do i have to look under 09 or under 04 for it to fit right in my car with the swap? another question is i found here on the site that the stock flywheel weights about 16.8 pounds and im looking at getting one of the ACT flywheels. The ACT prolite flywheel weights 9 pounds but you have to add a counterweight which makes it 13.3 pounds, on the fluid motorsports site it states that this flywheel reduces driveability so i want to stay away from that because this will be my daily car. So i looked into the ACT streetlite which weights 13.9 pounds and 17.4 pounds with the counterweight...that makes it heavier than the stock. I guess im a little confused on how aftermarket flywheels work. What is the reason for the counterweight? I want to keep my car as drive-able as i can.
07-08-2009, 11:14 AM
#6
The lighter flywheel facilitates more rapid rev spoolup due to lower inertial mass to overcome.
The counterweight as cited balances the crankshaft.
All things in balance and all compromise in design/mod - you determine where your priorities lie.
The counterweight as cited balances the crankshaft.
All things in balance and all compromise in design/mod - you determine where your priorities lie.
07-08-2009, 11:23 AM
#7
I have BHR's flywheel that is supposed to be the lightest one available. Or at least it was when i bought it 
If you can shift fast it won't affect driveability a lot. You can definitely find a solution in shifting a bit faster or at higher revs when going from 1st to 2nd. 2nd to 3rd and so on don't count much since you have some moving inertia to ease things up.
You can contact Charles R. Hill to retrieve some further infos on his product which is built by SPEC but to his specs (it's lighter than spec's one).
Hope this helps,
Giorgio
If you can shift fast it won't affect driveability a lot. You can definitely find a solution in shifting a bit faster or at higher revs when going from 1st to 2nd. 2nd to 3rd and so on don't count much since you have some moving inertia to ease things up.
You can contact Charles R. Hill to retrieve some further infos on his product which is built by SPEC but to his specs (it's lighter than spec's one).
Hope this helps,
Giorgio
07-09-2009, 10:44 PM
#11
RX7store.net
Im starting to save up for a project for my 04 rx8. Im planning on getting a 09 rx8 manual tranmission installed along with that i want to get a lightweight flywheel and clutch put in while im at it. Now i have a couple of questions. Since this is an 09 transmission when i look up flywheels and clutches do i have to look under 09 or under 04 for it to fit right in my car with the swap? another question is i found here on the site that the stock flywheel weights about 16.8 pounds and im looking at getting one of the ACT flywheels. The ACT prolite flywheel weights 9 pounds but you have to add a counterweight which makes it 13.3 pounds, on the fluid motorsports site it states that this flywheel reduces driveability so i want to stay away from that because this will be my daily car. So i looked into the ACT streetlite which weights 13.9 pounds and 17.4 pounds with the counterweight...that makes it heavier than the stock. I guess im a little confused on how aftermarket flywheels work. What is the reason for the counterweight? I want to keep my car as drive-able as i can.
07-09-2009, 10:53 PM
#13
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lol im only 140 any less and i would be underweight. Another questions when i put the 09 transmission on my 04 do i have to look up the clutch and flywheel for 09 or 04, is there any difference in the transmission how its set up.
07-09-2009, 10:54 PM
#14
RX7store.net
Its kinda like the people that will spend an extra $200 on something that gives 2 more HP than a cheaper part. You will never feel the difference on the street so why waste the money.
for assuming?
07-11-2009, 07:28 PM
#19
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Custom flywheel from Taylor Race Engineering, under 6 lbs.
07-12-2009, 06:02 AM
#21
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7.25" Yes
Team, you and I both know this is a high end race clutch setup. I share this to give all the forum readers an idea of what is on the other side of fence.
We bought this for our new setup---RX8 chassis, N.A. Street Port GSE motor w/custom intake all built by Daryl Drummond and a fully 6 sp quaiffe sequential trans. I think she should run World Challenge ST times with the addition of more grip and downforce---the 8 is a big fat girl and difficult (for our config) to get her under 2,600 w/out driver. I think there are a few guys that are gutted the heck beyond my logic to below 2,500 however that's a rumor.
This clutch is crazy to drive. I think everyone has stalled it the first several times out. Rev's like crazy but more importantly decels to rev match like you can't imagine. Makes for fantastic rev match. On the dyno peak h.p was the same however time to power/rpm was improved. You could see this when you measured time on one axis and rpm on another. Don't have this info handy. 2nd gear w/a 5.12 ring and p lasted about half a heartbeat. Interestingly enough, the seat of the pants was very noticable---much more of an improvement than the dyno data would suggest.
$1,800 for a full clutch, flywheel and custom slave cylinder. Clutch is a twin plate steel.
For those of you that want to know what's REALLY crazy, imagine this: 4.5" big dawg race clutch in carbon: drum roll........... $4,000+ Yes. Do a google search on "Tilton", "Carbon" and "Clutch" and you'll find several examples.
AGAIN, this is totally not a street setup. Clutches like this sintered or carbon required more frequent plates to operate properly.
Happy Rotoring
07-12-2009, 07:01 AM
#22
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If you decide to go with ACT, go for the prolite! My 8 is my daily driver and I have had the prolite flywheel for 3 years as well as the ACT heavy duty clutch and it didnt affect driveability at all. Infact, the car feels way better than stock especially during rev matching.
07-12-2009, 10:28 AM
#23
Eric, could you tell us more about the quaife transmission and other possible alternatives?
Knowing who might machine a bell adapter too would help
I have a shop here that could build me a straight-cut box with chosen gear ratios and stronger forks\synchros for 3800€, 5400$.
Since i track my car and i plan on going FI soon i would like to start thinking about options of possibly non-sequential gearboxes.
Giorgio
Knowing who might machine a bell adapter too would help
I have a shop here that could build me a straight-cut box with chosen gear ratios and stronger forks\synchros for 3800€, 5400$.
Since i track my car and i plan on going FI soon i would like to start thinking about options of possibly non-sequential gearboxes.
Giorgio
07-12-2009, 02:57 PM
#24
Registered
It sounds like Meyer Racing uses a eddy-current dyno of some sort(?).[/QUOTE]
We use a Ouji board with lots of sensors and a 8 year old Asian math whiz with an Abacus and he crayons us a nice little graph when he's done
We use a DynoJet that has as few options on it.
I think our peak pull on the best day on pump gas was 226 in 5th gear. 4th gear pulls get us 217 all day. This after long drivetrain warmups (diff to 140+ F). We squeek out a few more ponies when the oil runs about 210 F and the AIT is under 100 F.
Those damn crazy dynos---guaranteed to be different than everyone one elses. I would note that we see a ton of consistancy on this particular dyno and have been able to repeat our numbers again, again and again. For those of you that want to learn something----take a look at the DYNO PULL NUMBER generally shared on the dyno graph. Often you'll see an "001", "002", and "003". This can indicate the first 3 pulls either of the day or a particular session. Have you guys ever wondered why some of the pulls are lower than others? Look at the numbers on the pulls. They are often low. This CAN mean the car was just hooked up on the dyno and the dyno operator said "go". Not the way to test kids. Not the way. Its good if you go to a dyno day and pay your $75 but it ain't the right numbers buckeroos. For anyone that does this will you give me $100 if I can find you 3-5 more h.p.? Run your car on the dyno and warm up your drivetrain. Warm the crap out of it. Run it through the gears several times at near WOT. Hold it in 6th for a few minutes at over 100 mph. You will find a few more ponies rotary fans. We will do about 10 pulls AFTER 20 minutes of heat soak and drive train warmup before we do any measurable pulls. Its surprising how many people don't do this. Many roundy-round guys I know with $40,000 V8 motors don't even do this. Crazy.
This repeatable process allows you to get much closer to consistant results. Take notes gang. Anyone who is testing flywheels, exhaust, plugs, coil packs or anything else----your data is WHACK if you are not performing your test under the same conditions everytime. Water temp, oil temp, tire pressure, spark plug condition, coil pack condition, cleanliness of air filter, intake air temperature...... The more they are the same the more you know if your change is helping you or hurting you. A great example are the folks that put bags of ice on their intake. It works and they do it for a reason. And you get what you test.
One other thing since I'm on a role (must be the 3rd beer),
Question: What is 1% of 215?
Answer: 2.15 correct?
If your dyno is 99% accurate you can be 2 h.p off. Think about that when you are testing small items and looking for a few ponies here and there. Your testing procedure can be a bigger variable than the dyno. Hmmm??
Happy Rotoring
We use a Ouji board with lots of sensors and a 8 year old Asian math whiz with an Abacus and he crayons us a nice little graph when he's done
We use a DynoJet that has as few options on it.
I think our peak pull on the best day on pump gas was 226 in 5th gear. 4th gear pulls get us 217 all day. This after long drivetrain warmups (diff to 140+ F). We squeek out a few more ponies when the oil runs about 210 F and the AIT is under 100 F.
Those damn crazy dynos---guaranteed to be different than everyone one elses. I would note that we see a ton of consistancy on this particular dyno and have been able to repeat our numbers again, again and again. For those of you that want to learn something----take a look at the DYNO PULL NUMBER generally shared on the dyno graph. Often you'll see an "001", "002", and "003". This can indicate the first 3 pulls either of the day or a particular session. Have you guys ever wondered why some of the pulls are lower than others? Look at the numbers on the pulls. They are often low. This CAN mean the car was just hooked up on the dyno and the dyno operator said "go". Not the way to test kids. Not the way. Its good if you go to a dyno day and pay your $75 but it ain't the right numbers buckeroos. For anyone that does this will you give me $100 if I can find you 3-5 more h.p.? Run your car on the dyno and warm up your drivetrain. Warm the crap out of it. Run it through the gears several times at near WOT. Hold it in 6th for a few minutes at over 100 mph. You will find a few more ponies rotary fans. We will do about 10 pulls AFTER 20 minutes of heat soak and drive train warmup before we do any measurable pulls. Its surprising how many people don't do this. Many roundy-round guys I know with $40,000 V8 motors don't even do this. Crazy.
This repeatable process allows you to get much closer to consistant results. Take notes gang. Anyone who is testing flywheels, exhaust, plugs, coil packs or anything else----your data is WHACK if you are not performing your test under the same conditions everytime. Water temp, oil temp, tire pressure, spark plug condition, coil pack condition, cleanliness of air filter, intake air temperature...... The more they are the same the more you know if your change is helping you or hurting you. A great example are the folks that put bags of ice on their intake. It works and they do it for a reason. And you get what you test.
One other thing since I'm on a role (must be the 3rd beer),
Question: What is 1% of 215?
Answer: 2.15 correct?
If your dyno is 99% accurate you can be 2 h.p off. Think about that when you are testing small items and looking for a few ponies here and there. Your testing procedure can be a bigger variable than the dyno. Hmmm??
Happy Rotoring
Last edited by EricMeyer; 07-12-2009 at 03:05 PM.
