Racing Beat clutch vs. ACT
03-02-2007 | 08:38 PM
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Racing Beat clutch vs. ACT
Hey all, this particular incident happened with a 94 RX7 wherein one of our customers purchased and has us install a Racing Beat clutch disc (the street version) which didn't fit. I thought it would be beneficial to the 8 crowd in order to be wary about test fitting your disc!
We pulled his transmission and was ready to go back in with the new RB disc when we test fit it on the transmission splines. No go. It didn't fit at all. We lubricated the splines and it slid on a few millimeters at most. The stock disc slid on and off without problem so we called the customer and told him his RB disc didn't fit. We sent it back to RB and then got a phone call from Jim Tanner. He told us basically that there was nothing wrong with the disc. They tested it for fit there at their facility as well as one of their large customer's shops down the street from them.
We told Jim that it simply did not fit on our customer's car and he basically told us that we didn't know what we were doing because Mazdatrix had no problem installing it (which i highly doubt. i'll share why later). He then said that it would not be warrantied nor the money returned to the customer because we had put on a lubricant to help it slide on. Why lube would void its warranty is beyond me, but that was something the customer would deal with.....and he has.
Tanner sent back the disc and our customer ordered a disc from ACT. I have used ACT for years and am a true believer. When it arrived we did a little video using all three discs for comparison purposes.
The stock disc (worn out) slid on the tranny no problem. The brand new ACT HD disc also slid on no problem. The RB disc? nope, wouldn't budge a bit. We tried to help it on a bit with a mallet...still no go.
Mind you, sliding a disc on and off is not rocket science. either it fits or it does not. Their little plastic alignment tool fit all three, but an RX7 transmission is not supplied with plastic splines
Buyer Beware. The ACT is a top notch piece that we'd recommend to anyone. The RB, I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy. The time wasted during all of this ordeal has cost the customer greatly. not financially, since we didn't charge the shop time it sat in the back of the shop, but for being without his car for weeks at a time and missing a track event at TWS.
I'll have some video available soon when i upload it to my computer from my camera.
Dan Pedroza
www.jcautospec.com
We pulled his transmission and was ready to go back in with the new RB disc when we test fit it on the transmission splines. No go. It didn't fit at all. We lubricated the splines and it slid on a few millimeters at most. The stock disc slid on and off without problem so we called the customer and told him his RB disc didn't fit. We sent it back to RB and then got a phone call from Jim Tanner. He told us basically that there was nothing wrong with the disc. They tested it for fit there at their facility as well as one of their large customer's shops down the street from them.
We told Jim that it simply did not fit on our customer's car and he basically told us that we didn't know what we were doing because Mazdatrix had no problem installing it (which i highly doubt. i'll share why later). He then said that it would not be warrantied nor the money returned to the customer because we had put on a lubricant to help it slide on. Why lube would void its warranty is beyond me, but that was something the customer would deal with.....and he has.
Tanner sent back the disc and our customer ordered a disc from ACT. I have used ACT for years and am a true believer. When it arrived we did a little video using all three discs for comparison purposes.
The stock disc (worn out) slid on the tranny no problem. The brand new ACT HD disc also slid on no problem. The RB disc? nope, wouldn't budge a bit. We tried to help it on a bit with a mallet...still no go.
Mind you, sliding a disc on and off is not rocket science. either it fits or it does not. Their little plastic alignment tool fit all three, but an RX7 transmission is not supplied with plastic splines
Buyer Beware. The ACT is a top notch piece that we'd recommend to anyone. The RB, I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy. The time wasted during all of this ordeal has cost the customer greatly. not financially, since we didn't charge the shop time it sat in the back of the shop, but for being without his car for weeks at a time and missing a track event at TWS.
I'll have some video available soon when i upload it to my computer from my camera.
Dan Pedroza
www.jcautospec.com
03-02-2007 | 10:24 PM
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03-02-2007 | 11:04 PM
#4
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careful.. there are a lot of RB lovers on this forum. i for one prefer the ACT tranny parts myself.
for the most part, RB is top notch quality so thats probrably why the customer service was probrably less then coperative. this is pretty much a rare and isolated freak accident.
RB is the most responsible company in reguards to claims i have ever seen
for the most part, RB is top notch quality so thats probrably why the customer service was probrably less then coperative. this is pretty much a rare and isolated freak accident.
RB is the most responsible company in reguards to claims i have ever seen
Last edited by gh0st; 03-02-2007 at 11:08 PM.
03-02-2007 | 11:22 PM
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I didn't mean to imply that this is a common thing. I know that freak incidents happen, we've been in the business long enough to know this. The disturbing thing about this incident is how RB chose to treat this incident and not take any responsibility whatsoever, not warranty the disc, and then call our shop incompetent because we couldn't get it to fit our customer's vehicle.
We have very many suppliers. Racing Beat is not one of them because we do'nt purchase much from them, but our customers do. Our suppliers recognize that some of their parts are faulty and they take responsbility for them. They were not interested in taking care of their customer.
dp
We have very many suppliers. Racing Beat is not one of them because we do'nt purchase much from them, but our customers do. Our suppliers recognize that some of their parts are faulty and they take responsbility for them. They were not interested in taking care of their customer.
dp
03-03-2007 | 03:17 AM
#7
Originally Posted by beagleracing
Hey all, this particular incident happened with a 94 RX7 wherein one of our customers purchased and has us install a Racing Beat clutch disc (the street version) which didn't fit. I thought it would be beneficial to the 8 crowd in order to be wary about test fitting your disc!
We pulled his transmission and was ready to go back in with the new RB disc when we test fit it on the transmission splines. No go. It didn't fit at all. We lubricated the splines and it slid on a few millimeters at most. The stock disc slid on and off without problem so we called the customer and told him his RB disc didn't fit. We sent it back to RB and then got a phone call from Jim Tanner. He told us basically that there was nothing wrong with the disc. They tested it for fit there at their facility as well as one of their large customer's shops down the street from them.
We told Jim that it simply did not fit on our customer's car and he basically told us that we didn't know what we were doing because Mazdatrix had no problem installing it (which i highly doubt. i'll share why later). He then said that it would not be warrantied nor the money returned to the customer because we had put on a lubricant to help it slide on. Why lube would void its warranty is beyond me, but that was something the customer would deal with.....and he has.
Tanner sent back the disc and our customer ordered a disc from ACT. I have used ACT for years and am a true believer. When it arrived we did a little video using all three discs for comparison purposes.
The stock disc (worn out) slid on the tranny no problem. The brand new ACT HD disc also slid on no problem. The RB disc? nope, wouldn't budge a bit. We tried to help it on a bit with a mallet...still no go.
Mind you, sliding a disc on and off is not rocket science. either it fits or it does not. Their little plastic alignment tool fit all three, but an RX7 transmission is not supplied with plastic splines
Buyer Beware. The ACT is a top notch piece that we'd recommend to anyone. The RB, I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy. The time wasted during all of this ordeal has cost the customer greatly. not financially, since we didn't charge the shop time it sat in the back of the shop, but for being without his car for weeks at a time and missing a track event at TWS.
I'll have some video available soon when i upload it to my computer from my camera.
Dan Pedroza
www.jcautospec.com
We pulled his transmission and was ready to go back in with the new RB disc when we test fit it on the transmission splines. No go. It didn't fit at all. We lubricated the splines and it slid on a few millimeters at most. The stock disc slid on and off without problem so we called the customer and told him his RB disc didn't fit. We sent it back to RB and then got a phone call from Jim Tanner. He told us basically that there was nothing wrong with the disc. They tested it for fit there at their facility as well as one of their large customer's shops down the street from them.
We told Jim that it simply did not fit on our customer's car and he basically told us that we didn't know what we were doing because Mazdatrix had no problem installing it (which i highly doubt. i'll share why later). He then said that it would not be warrantied nor the money returned to the customer because we had put on a lubricant to help it slide on. Why lube would void its warranty is beyond me, but that was something the customer would deal with.....and he has.
Tanner sent back the disc and our customer ordered a disc from ACT. I have used ACT for years and am a true believer. When it arrived we did a little video using all three discs for comparison purposes.
The stock disc (worn out) slid on the tranny no problem. The brand new ACT HD disc also slid on no problem. The RB disc? nope, wouldn't budge a bit. We tried to help it on a bit with a mallet...still no go.
Mind you, sliding a disc on and off is not rocket science. either it fits or it does not. Their little plastic alignment tool fit all three, but an RX7 transmission is not supplied with plastic splines
Buyer Beware. The ACT is a top notch piece that we'd recommend to anyone. The RB, I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy. The time wasted during all of this ordeal has cost the customer greatly. not financially, since we didn't charge the shop time it sat in the back of the shop, but for being without his car for weeks at a time and missing a track event at TWS.
I'll have some video available soon when i upload it to my computer from my camera.
Dan Pedroza
www.jcautospec.com
dan,
what does this have to do with a rx8? rb does not have a clutch or disk for the rx8...
why are you here?
beers
03-03-2007 | 03:25 AM
#8
and a second note.
what was the real app? you have stock and act. both 4 spring disks.. then a 6 spring racing beat?
not sure if you are spam. doushe. or stupid?
gfl..
beers
what was the real app? you have stock and act. both 4 spring disks.. then a 6 spring racing beat?
not sure if you are spam. doushe. or stupid?
gfl..
beers
03-03-2007 | 04:23 AM
#9
The clutch disc for the 87-95 RX-7 turbo also is listed for the RX-8.
I have assisted with installing the sprung hub version and it fits fine on the RX-8.
http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=12523
Is the hub the same size all the way through on the RB clutch in the video?
It was a little deceiving having the stock and ACT clutch upside down and the RB clutch facing the oposite direction. Not a good comparison.
Was the RB sticker cut away from the hub before installing? (it could have pushed the sticker onto the inside of the hub not allowing it to slide on.
I have assisted with installing the sprung hub version and it fits fine on the RX-8.
http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=12523
Is the hub the same size all the way through on the RB clutch in the video?
It was a little deceiving having the stock and ACT clutch upside down and the RB clutch facing the oposite direction. Not a good comparison.
Was the RB sticker cut away from the hub before installing? (it could have pushed the sticker onto the inside of the hub not allowing it to slide on.
03-03-2007 | 08:31 AM
#10
Originally Posted by swoope
dan,
what does this have to do with a rx8? rb does not have a clutch or disk for the rx8...
why are you here?
beers
what does this have to do with a rx8? rb does not have a clutch or disk for the rx8...
why are you here?
beers
http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=12523
http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....rtNumber=12524
But for some reason, I dont really like RB when it comes to clutches, maybe Im a newbie. For Clutches, I would trust ACT more. (Dont hate me here!)
03-03-2007 | 09:44 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by swoope
and a second note.
what was the real app? you have stock and act. both 4 spring disks.. then a 6 spring racing beat?
not sure if you are spam. doushe. or stupid?
gfl..
beers
what was the real app? you have stock and act. both 4 spring disks.. then a 6 spring racing beat?
not sure if you are spam. doushe. or stupid?
gfl..
beers
d
03-03-2007 | 09:49 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by 4 years to Supercharge
Is the hub the same size all the way through on the RB clutch in the video?
It was a little deceiving having the stock and ACT clutch upside down and the RB clutch facing the oposite direction. Not a good comparison.
Was the RB sticker cut away from the hub before installing? (it could have pushed the sticker onto the inside of the hub not allowing it to slide on.
The only reason I'm posting here is because RB sells clutches for the 8, the 7 and the Miata. I've been on the Miata communities for over 15 years but wanted to share it to make sure nobody is stuck in their garage doing a month long clutch swap because of a bad disk. It's merely information presented.
d
03-03-2007 | 07:34 PM
#14
My Goodness My Guinness
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 547
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From: The OC, Maryland
and he even said it could've been a fluke. he's being a good person. he's stating what he found, told the whole story, gave his opinion. Quit shitting on him. And damn swoope no sense being a dick to him. save your venom for truly dumb ***** who crap on a racing beat intake for not making 27whp and letting the car run 11's
03-03-2007 | 07:46 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Moonrover333
and he even said it could've been a fluke. he's being a good person. he's stating what he found, told the whole story, gave his opinion. Quit shitting on him. And damn swoope no sense being a dick to him. save your venom for truly dumb ***** who crap on a racing beat intake for not making 27whp and letting the car run 11's
and the disc in the video is not offered for sale for the rx8 by racing beat..
or maybe i just cant find it in the rx8 section of racing beat.
the only two discs they offer are are six puck designs the one in the video is not...
beers
03-03-2007 | 08:30 PM
#18
Personally, I don't like RB for tranny components, I like em on almost all else, but after my experience with their flyweel and how it didn't work quite right with a MS clutch I shy away from them.
03-03-2007 | 09:58 PM
#20
i'm the undead
Joined: Jul 2004
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well, i for one would like to commend the original poster. i've been an ACT clutch customer for about 6 years now and i can't see myself turning back. i'm also a Racing Beat customer for many things with my Rx-7s. i think the info was presented with taste and decorum, even if it was admittedly biased. i didn't get the feeling it was meant as a bash, just a warning. lighten up on him.
as for the Rx-8 when the time comes for a clutch, i'll be going with an ACT clutch and probably a Racing Beat flywheel.
as for the Rx-8 when the time comes for a clutch, i'll be going with an ACT clutch and probably a Racing Beat flywheel.
03-03-2007 | 11:12 PM
#21
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by swoope
dan,
what does this have to do with a rx8? rb does not have a clutch or disk for the rx8...
why are you here?
beers
what does this have to do with a rx8? rb does not have a clutch or disk for the rx8...
why are you here?
beers
Originally Posted by swoope
i guess the point is that act makes an excellent product...
and the disc in the video is not offered for sale for the rx8 by racing beat..
and the disc in the video is not offered for sale for the rx8 by racing beat..
Now, that everyone's familiar with RB's product line, let's get to the matter at hand. I guess the point is the RX-8 has the same spline pattern as the RX-7. Also, the center section of the RB's "RX-7" disc and the "RX-7/RX-8" disc look identical - the same lettering ("pat pending" etc.), springs, and rivot pattern:
I'm going to connect the dots... I think there is a chance that if you ordered one of the "RX-7/RX-8" discs it might not fit on your RX-8. But more importantly, you might have trouble returning it based on Beagle's experience...
That seems like decent logical jump or am I "doushe" also?
-Mr. Wigggles
(Pssst. It's "douche")
Last edited by MrWigggles; 03-03-2007 at 11:21 PM.
03-03-2007 | 11:27 PM
#22
Originally Posted by MrWigggles
Looks like someone found the clutch components on the Racing Beat site. ...
Now, let's get to the matter at hand. I guess the point is the RX-8 has the same spline pattern as the RX-7. The center section of the "RX-7" disc and the "RX-7/RX-8" disc look identical - the same lettering ("pat pending" etc.), springs, and rivot pattern:
I'm going to connect the dots... I think there is a chance that if you ordered one of the "RX-7/RX-8" discs it might not fit on your RX-8. But more importantly, you might have trouble returning it based on Beagle's experience...
That seems like decent logical jump or am I "doushe" also?
-Mr. Wigggles
(Pssst. It's "douche")
Now, let's get to the matter at hand. I guess the point is the RX-8 has the same spline pattern as the RX-7. The center section of the "RX-7" disc and the "RX-7/RX-8" disc look identical - the same lettering ("pat pending" etc.), springs, and rivot pattern:
I'm going to connect the dots... I think there is a chance that if you ordered one of the "RX-7/RX-8" discs it might not fit on your RX-8. But more importantly, you might have trouble returning it based on Beagle's experience...
That seems like decent logical jump or am I "doushe" also?
-Mr. Wigggles
(Pssst. It's "douche")
but it is not for sale in the rx8 section... for a reason? that is the point of my post..
i know there was an issue ~ 3 yrs ago with a disk and pp from rb.... i think it was an issue with ppf alignment.
looking identical and fitting are two different things.. and as noted above the customer bought the disk...
i am not pro or con here... i just dont know why this rx7 issue is on a rx8 website...
btw, i am going with not a "doushe". i have learned to much from you. and i got my spelling from olddragger.
beers
03-04-2007 | 12:10 AM
#23
Rotary Superstar
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 472
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From: Maryland
Originally Posted by Brettus
this sounds like one bad part - it happens . Does not mean it will happen all the time ....
Racing Beat confirmed it was the correct part, and that it worked perfectly fine for them. Therefore if it was bad, they would've replaced it. Or well, they SHOULD have..
03-04-2007 | 12:22 AM
#24
Originally Posted by AdRoCK3217
Racing Beat confirmed it was the correct part, and that it worked perfectly fine for them. Therefore if it was bad, they would've replaced it. Or well, they SHOULD have..
where you the customer that ordered the clutch, or did you talk to rb about this issue?
beers