RACING BEAT PCM FLASH for the '05 models is OUT
#101
No respecter of malarkey
iTrader: (25)
posted a dyno graph of factory stock vs my mods & flash
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=159
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=159
#103
Power!!
![Thumbs up](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/icon14.gif)
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
posted a dyno graph of factory stock vs my mods & flash
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=159
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=159
Edit: relooked at the graph and updated my hp guesstimate.
#104
Purveyor of fine bass
Impressions so far.
Here are my impressions so far.
So, yes, I know that butt dyno is not that sensitive, so take my impressions just as that: impressions. I do drive the car a lot though, so I am very familiar with its feel.
The biggest, most obvious difference in power is above 8000RPM, just like RB says, most noticeably above 8300RPM. Basically, it used to feel that the engine ran out of breath and I had that feeling of it just revving for the sake of revving, but the pull falling off. With the flash, the power feels constant--it doesn't feel like it falls off anymore. The car just keeps pulling to the redline.
For me, 9300 rev limit is key. It's just fun! It may be silly to some, but mentally being able to rev much higher really satisfies the rotary geek in me. Combined with the power not falling off rapidly, revving to 9300 also doesn't feel wasteful. Being able to hit 69-70 in 2nd and 97 in 3rd is cool. Shifting at higher RPM, you also end up landing in higher RPMs for the next gear. And that's also nice (whether it's actually faster or not, based on the torque curve and gearing and such is a different matter...). This was a major selling point for me.
The power delivery is smoother--the shifts are smoother (getting back on the throttle on upshifts seems a little smoother). I can feel overall more pull than I'm used to between 5000-8000RPMs, but it's hard to quantify.
The flash is a conservative tune (based on the AFR charts I've seen in other threads), and I don't think that it impacts the engine lifetime. That's good.
Gas mileage seems unchanged.
So, overall, I'm quite happy! With the RB flash, the RB exhaust and the Whiteline sways, the car is substantially better than stock.
So, yes, I know that butt dyno is not that sensitive, so take my impressions just as that: impressions. I do drive the car a lot though, so I am very familiar with its feel.
The biggest, most obvious difference in power is above 8000RPM, just like RB says, most noticeably above 8300RPM. Basically, it used to feel that the engine ran out of breath and I had that feeling of it just revving for the sake of revving, but the pull falling off. With the flash, the power feels constant--it doesn't feel like it falls off anymore. The car just keeps pulling to the redline.
For me, 9300 rev limit is key. It's just fun! It may be silly to some, but mentally being able to rev much higher really satisfies the rotary geek in me. Combined with the power not falling off rapidly, revving to 9300 also doesn't feel wasteful. Being able to hit 69-70 in 2nd and 97 in 3rd is cool. Shifting at higher RPM, you also end up landing in higher RPMs for the next gear. And that's also nice (whether it's actually faster or not, based on the torque curve and gearing and such is a different matter...). This was a major selling point for me.
The power delivery is smoother--the shifts are smoother (getting back on the throttle on upshifts seems a little smoother). I can feel overall more pull than I'm used to between 5000-8000RPMs, but it's hard to quantify.
The flash is a conservative tune (based on the AFR charts I've seen in other threads), and I don't think that it impacts the engine lifetime. That's good.
Gas mileage seems unchanged.
So, overall, I'm quite happy! With the RB flash, the RB exhaust and the Whiteline sways, the car is substantially better than stock.
Last edited by Astral; 11-29-2006 at 04:06 PM.
#107
Registered
Originally Posted by Landon
Hey I got a good question for you guys... Anyone know how well this flash will work with the unichip? Any idea of possible gains?
#109
No respecter of malarkey
iTrader: (25)
Technical Information
The RX-8 Power Control Module is a powerful computer that has been programmed with strategy carefully optimized for the Renesis engine. The module is supplied with 3 maps for each main variable - leading timing, trailing timing and fuel. These maps are for hysteresis (deceleration), first through fourth gear, and fifth and sixth gear. Some of these maps are the same.
This PCM is a "learning" computer (like most OEM units) and uses heated oxygen sensors to build (3) long term fuel trim levels - idle, low speed and cruise. The computer undertakes this by first calculating the fuel injector "ON" dwell time based on the Mass Air Flow (MAF) meter output, then adjusting that amount with numbers from an "Enrichment Table" (which is what Racing Beat modifies). Once this "ON" time is output to the injectors, the #1 (front) oxygen (O2) sensor measures the resulting exhaust for oxygen concentration, converts that reading to a "Lambda" value (the ratio of the actual fuel mixture to an ideal "14.7" mixture), compares that to a "look-up table" of target Lambda values, then adjusts the mixture to exactly match the target Lambda value. This is necessary because no engine system (the engine and all of its components) is actually identical to any other - and even if it was, age and wear would soon change that. This system "corrects" the mixture, but it also keeps track of the changes it has to make with a "statistical algorithm" that looks for a pattern of average changes it finds necessary. When it identifies such a pattern, it makes this "trim" value part of its basic calculation to allow it to get closer to the target mixture more quickly. Most importantly, when the PCM switches to "open loop" (no oxygen feedback control) at throttle settings above freeway cruise RPM and load, the system continues to use the highest trim level to correct the mixture. In other words, the PCM generates a "correction factor" at freeway cruise, and then continues to use that factor at high power. These trim quantities can be built in as little as a few minutes, depending on the operation of the engine.
As mentioned earlier, there are 3 levels of trim, all independent of each other. This is why "piggyback" controllers can cause such problems - when the controller changes some output, often the long-term learning corrects for this change. This complexity also had a lot to do with the time it took for us to understand this information.
In developing this flash, we disconnected the Front Oxygen Sensor so that we had a stable, unchanging platform. Otherwise, the system would continually develop new trims that we would have to chase. Of course, it is not appropriate for you to do this (except in racing) because the system NEEDS the oxygen feedback information to correct the engine’s operation at light to moderate throttle settings. The fact is, in our experience, the PCM will usually build a 2% to 3.5% top level trim, which means the engine is running that much richer than best power mixture. In general, this is a small amount, and will only cause a fraction of 1% loss of power. On the other hand, if you don't want to run with this factor (i.e. racing applications), you have two choices:
1. Disconnect the Front Oxygen Sensor (at the top of the bell housing), pull and reinstall the "ROOM" fuse (in the left kick panel) to eliminate the 3 trim levels, and the PCM will NEVER build a fuel trim (it will turn on the "Check Engine" light, but that's all).
2. As an alternative, you can simply warm the engine prior to a competition run, shut off the engine, pull and reinstall the "ROOM" fuse, and begin your competition shortly after starting the engine. In this way, the engine never sees the "cruise" operation it needs to build the trim level.
The system has huge amounts of self-diagnosis capability. It detects most malfunctions immediately, although it may delay turning on the "check engine" light for a number of start cycles, depending on the malfunction. In many cases it can clear a malfunction (i.e., turn off the "check engine" light) by itself if the problem is corrected or stops occurring.
The RX-8 Power Control Module is a powerful computer that has been programmed with strategy carefully optimized for the Renesis engine. The module is supplied with 3 maps for each main variable - leading timing, trailing timing and fuel. These maps are for hysteresis (deceleration), first through fourth gear, and fifth and sixth gear. Some of these maps are the same.
This PCM is a "learning" computer (like most OEM units) and uses heated oxygen sensors to build (3) long term fuel trim levels - idle, low speed and cruise. The computer undertakes this by first calculating the fuel injector "ON" dwell time based on the Mass Air Flow (MAF) meter output, then adjusting that amount with numbers from an "Enrichment Table" (which is what Racing Beat modifies). Once this "ON" time is output to the injectors, the #1 (front) oxygen (O2) sensor measures the resulting exhaust for oxygen concentration, converts that reading to a "Lambda" value (the ratio of the actual fuel mixture to an ideal "14.7" mixture), compares that to a "look-up table" of target Lambda values, then adjusts the mixture to exactly match the target Lambda value. This is necessary because no engine system (the engine and all of its components) is actually identical to any other - and even if it was, age and wear would soon change that. This system "corrects" the mixture, but it also keeps track of the changes it has to make with a "statistical algorithm" that looks for a pattern of average changes it finds necessary. When it identifies such a pattern, it makes this "trim" value part of its basic calculation to allow it to get closer to the target mixture more quickly. Most importantly, when the PCM switches to "open loop" (no oxygen feedback control) at throttle settings above freeway cruise RPM and load, the system continues to use the highest trim level to correct the mixture. In other words, the PCM generates a "correction factor" at freeway cruise, and then continues to use that factor at high power. These trim quantities can be built in as little as a few minutes, depending on the operation of the engine.
As mentioned earlier, there are 3 levels of trim, all independent of each other. This is why "piggyback" controllers can cause such problems - when the controller changes some output, often the long-term learning corrects for this change. This complexity also had a lot to do with the time it took for us to understand this information.
In developing this flash, we disconnected the Front Oxygen Sensor so that we had a stable, unchanging platform. Otherwise, the system would continually develop new trims that we would have to chase. Of course, it is not appropriate for you to do this (except in racing) because the system NEEDS the oxygen feedback information to correct the engine’s operation at light to moderate throttle settings. The fact is, in our experience, the PCM will usually build a 2% to 3.5% top level trim, which means the engine is running that much richer than best power mixture. In general, this is a small amount, and will only cause a fraction of 1% loss of power. On the other hand, if you don't want to run with this factor (i.e. racing applications), you have two choices:
1. Disconnect the Front Oxygen Sensor (at the top of the bell housing), pull and reinstall the "ROOM" fuse (in the left kick panel) to eliminate the 3 trim levels, and the PCM will NEVER build a fuel trim (it will turn on the "Check Engine" light, but that's all).
2. As an alternative, you can simply warm the engine prior to a competition run, shut off the engine, pull and reinstall the "ROOM" fuse, and begin your competition shortly after starting the engine. In this way, the engine never sees the "cruise" operation it needs to build the trim level.
The system has huge amounts of self-diagnosis capability. It detects most malfunctions immediately, although it may delay turning on the "check engine" light for a number of start cycles, depending on the malfunction. In many cases it can clear a malfunction (i.e., turn off the "check engine" light) by itself if the problem is corrected or stops occurring.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 12-29-2006 at 07:09 PM.
#110
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Montreal (Qc) Canada
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RB PCM flash for Canada...
Originally Posted by Skiptomylue
man.. WHY cant this be available for Canadians ![Frown](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
![Frown](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
I will post feedbacks as soon as the PCM is reinstalled (read: tomorrow morning)!
Cheers.
#111
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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PCM flash for canadian RX8: feedbacks
I don't want to "polute" this thread since it's for canadian owners, the feedbacks have been posted under the Canada Forum on the following thread:
https://www.rx8club.com/canada-forum-35/racing-beat-pcm-flash-canadian-106363/
Cheers,
Phil.
https://www.rx8club.com/canada-forum-35/racing-beat-pcm-flash-canadian-106363/
Cheers,
Phil.
#112
Son what is your Alibi?
iTrader: (1)
High dyno numbers are impressive, but I don't like to use them as absolutes like most due, when your talking about 20rwhp gains or less the interpretations of what makes 5rwhp or 9rwhp get really jumbled up in your head because nothing is done one the same day same dyno or same region.
That said TeamRx8's dynos are only impressive in comparison to his own comparative run, what I find really appealing about his runs is the smoothing after each port opening and the stabilization above 7250.
That said again TeamRx8 how much unsprung mass (rotating) did you loose at each of your back wheels? Remember folks that will skew numbers toward the higher side. RacingBrake Rotors 14.1lbs and 18.6lbs 18.9.5 RPF1s if I'm correct?
And to a much lesser degree (because they are basically stationary on a dyno) the lighter calipers, and 4k suspension?
That said TeamRx8's dynos are only impressive in comparison to his own comparative run, what I find really appealing about his runs is the smoothing after each port opening and the stabilization above 7250.
That said again TeamRx8 how much unsprung mass (rotating) did you loose at each of your back wheels? Remember folks that will skew numbers toward the higher side. RacingBrake Rotors 14.1lbs and 18.6lbs 18.9.5 RPF1s if I'm correct?
And to a much lesser degree (because they are basically stationary on a dyno) the lighter calipers, and 4k suspension?
Last edited by PoLaK; 01-02-2007 at 11:46 PM.
#113
No respecter of malarkey
iTrader: (25)
The wheels/tires weigh close to OE; lighter wheel, but larger/heavier tire and the RB 2-pc rear rotors are 3 lbs lighter each than the OE rotors, but most of that weight drop comes from the aluminum hat which is close to the hub and so a small inertia radius. In the end it probably isn't much different than OE as far as a stationary dyno run is concerned.
Moving on down the road is a different story ...
Moving on down the road is a different story ...
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#114
Registered
iTrader: (2)
That makes total sense as to further away from the hub causing more differences with parasitic loss of horse power.
That said a lighter tire would make more difference than a lighter rim on parasitic loss.
Is pulling the "Room" fuse the same as disconnecting the battery to reset the ECU?
That said a lighter tire would make more difference than a lighter rim on parasitic loss.
2. As an alternative, you can simply warm the engine prior to a competition run, shut off the engine, pull and reinstall the "ROOM" fuse, and begin your competition shortly after starting the engine. In this way, the engine never sees the "cruise" operation it needs to build the trim level.
#115
Son what is your Alibi?
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by 4 years to Supercharge
That said a lighter tire would make more difference than a lighter rim on parasitic loss.
More to my earlier point, even if you have 2 identically set up and identically performing/functioning cars, the only difference being the brand of tires dyno'd on the same day the 7lbs difference of unsprung rotating weight at the wheels is going to result in some pretty significant deviation that people will scratch their head at
![Scratchhead](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/scratchhead.gif)
![Crazy](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/crazy.gif)
Post Scriptum: This is a reason why I like DynoPack dynos, they have "power absobtion units" that hook up directly to your hubs, and simulate based on controls.
Post Post Scriptum: If anyone doubts how huge 7lbs of unsprung weight is, I’m sure rotarygod or someone equally as clever could calculate out what that theoretically equals in RWHP, but if you want to see something really cool put your car on jackstands take off the wheels, start in 6th gear and see how fast you get to 180mph, should take about 1 second.
#117
Power!!
Hey Polak how's LSU treating you? The test you mention, what is the time difference between tires on and tires off jacked up? I'm sure it would be easy to go fast with the tires off the ground because you don't have to push the weight of the car but that's not what we're really testing right?
![Mdrmed](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/mdrmed.gif)
#118
Son what is your Alibi?
iTrader: (1)
Loyola not LSU, LSU keeps picking fights with me at bars when they are in town before football games, last time I won the guy was smaller then you Shawn ![Hahano](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/hahano.gif)
What you get for being a Notre Dame fan down there I guess.
Sorry I figured the weight of the car was kinda intuitive, put the car on jacks drive it to 180 with your wheels on and drive it to 180 with your wheels off, and yes Traction contol must be off.
Disclaimer im not responsible if your car falls due to lifting by improper jack points.
![Hahano](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/hahano.gif)
What you get for being a Notre Dame fan down there I guess.
Sorry I figured the weight of the car was kinda intuitive, put the car on jacks drive it to 180 with your wheels on and drive it to 180 with your wheels off, and yes Traction contol must be off.
Disclaimer im not responsible if your car falls due to lifting by improper jack points.
Last edited by PoLaK; 01-03-2007 at 12:47 PM.
#121
Power!!
Originally Posted by PoLaK
Disclaimer im not responsible if your car falls due to lifting by improper jack points.
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I thought LSU stood for Loyola State University. j/k Glad to see you're picking fights you can win at least and keeping up the Jersey image.