The Showdown: REVI vs (new)K&N Intakes!
08-08-2005, 02:55 PM
#51
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I just want to say that RG is also using his own time and money to test many things for the RX-8.. As far as I know, he still hasn't purchased one himself(although maybe he did and I don't know) Also, he is/has been testing different manufacturers intakes on his flow bench. I for one respect his opinions.
08-08-2005, 02:56 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by SDB
I would like to hear more about this Import Tuner test. Was it a comparison or two tests on different vehicles at different times? What was measured, etc? This thread goes back and forth but maybe there may be some unbiased answers already available on this subject (or maybe not).
this is quoted from the RB website
Stock vs Racing Beat
REVi Intake Adds An Average 1.95 HP Over The Stock System - 2000-8900 RPM Range
Peak RPM Gains Over Stock - 3.5 HP @ 8300 RPM
Maximum Power Gain Over Stock - 5.8 HP @ 8900 RPM
Test engine - Stock Renesis engine using: Racing Beat Ultra Ignition wires, Royal Purple Racing 41 Oil, and the knock sensor unbolted.
So according to no less an authority than RB themselves the K&N is slightly better on the HP front, at least from the dyno in IT. On a side note you can usually find something that produces more power than anything RB makes, however their products are always of high quality with excellent drivability.
Last edited by David_M; 08-08-2005 at 03:01 PM.
08-08-2005, 03:00 PM
#53
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RG----Fair enough but you do understand that your opinions sway others and causes a domino effect
I'm not going to sit here and deny that the rb intake is well made but I hope one day we can get a true comparison with all the intakes avail. have them installed on the same day with the same car.
I'm not going to sit here and deny that the rb intake is well made but I hope one day we can get a true comparison with all the intakes avail. have them installed on the same day with the same car.
08-08-2005, 03:30 PM
#57
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Intersting
I just got my REVi Intake waiting for delivery of the RAM Duct before installing. :D
I am some what curious about the discussion.
Since both units are using the K&N Filter, my curiosity is how the K&N housing unit which appears to be open to the engine bay and of course higher temp, and only allows the heated air through the center of the filter into the intake is more efficient than a sealed unit which with the addition of the duct will draw only cool ambient air from out side the engine bay, and draws the air from 360 degrees around the outside of the filter unit into the intake.
Just curious that’s all.
I am some what curious about the discussion.
Since both units are using the K&N Filter, my curiosity is how the K&N housing unit which appears to be open to the engine bay and of course higher temp, and only allows the heated air through the center of the filter into the intake is more efficient than a sealed unit which with the addition of the duct will draw only cool ambient air from out side the engine bay, and draws the air from 360 degrees around the outside of the filter unit into the intake.
Just curious that’s all.
Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
Well I'm on the fence in choosing an Intake for the 8. About a month ago I was dead set on the revi but now k&n just introduced their new SR intake. Now I know that a lot of you all got the revi and just love it but which intake will result in the most power added to the 8?
I'm thinking that the k&n will give me the best gains/flow more air but with an increase in noise while the revi will create a moderate gain and keep the noise facter at a minimum.
Discuss
I'm thinking that the k&n will give me the best gains/flow more air but with an increase in noise while the revi will create a moderate gain and keep the noise facter at a minimum.
Discuss
08-08-2005, 03:40 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by Dragonrider
I just got my REVi Intake waiting for delivery of the RAM Duct before installing. :D
I am some what curious about the discussion.
Since both units are using the K&N Filter, my curiosity is how the K&N housing unit which appears to be open to the engine bay and of course higher temp, and only allows the heated air through the center of the filter into the intake is more efficient than a sealed unit which with the addition of the duct will draw only cool ambient air from out side the engine bay, and draws the air from 360 degrees around the outside of the filter unit into the intake.
Just curious that’s all.
I am some what curious about the discussion.
Since both units are using the K&N Filter, my curiosity is how the K&N housing unit which appears to be open to the engine bay and of course higher temp, and only allows the heated air through the center of the filter into the intake is more efficient than a sealed unit which with the addition of the duct will draw only cool ambient air from out side the engine bay, and draws the air from 360 degrees around the outside of the filter unit into the intake.
Just curious that’s all.
08-08-2005, 03:45 PM
#59
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Quick side note
Rotary God,
This is off point I realize, but you mentioned Royal Purple Synthetic Oil for the Rotary Engine. I have heard about is but you are the first I have notice that recommended the oil for the rotary. I will assume it burns fine when injected into the rotors for lubrication. Since you are recommending the oil may I assume that this oil holds up better than natural oil in high rev, and can I get it at most any parts store.
Thanks for the impute on the oil.
This is off point I realize, but you mentioned Royal Purple Synthetic Oil for the Rotary Engine. I have heard about is but you are the first I have notice that recommended the oil for the rotary. I will assume it burns fine when injected into the rotors for lubrication. Since you are recommending the oil may I assume that this oil holds up better than natural oil in high rev, and can I get it at most any parts store.
Thanks for the impute on the oil.
Originally Posted by rotarygod
I never said the ram air system will yield huge power gains like everyone else on the internet claims, not even with Racing Beat's. I do like the way they designed the system though and feel it is the proper way to do it for a street car. The problem is with the term ram air. I still don't actually consider Racing Beat's to be completely appropriately named as it isn't truly 100% sealed off to the airbox. It is still a cold air system although it may actually do something in a small way for a ram effect but obviously not until at very high speeds. ON the other hand, what if it truly is a ram air system that does give gains? Will you see them on a dyno? Nope. Many people are reporting a gain at higher speeds.
If I am in the same boat as you but on the RB side, and you say I am biased and that's what you hate about the forum, that means that you are biased too. I'm not trying to be mean and believe me I really only want to see you happy with your car, regardless of which product it is. I absolutely do have a right to say theirs is better. You're saying it's not. It's called an opinion and we all have them and I'm fine with that. I also say that everyone should only be using Royal Purple synthetic oil in the rotaries too. That's what I like about this forum, everyone has their own opinion. Go "next door" and you'll find that most everyone thinks one way and that if you are different, something is wrong. That's being biased.
I am absolutely sincere when I say get the one that makes you happy. That's all that matters. If you are waiting for test results to do so, do it properly. Test them all in the car while moving and choose the one that you like best. You called this thread a "showdown" yet you don't like my shootout approach to support the one I like. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. It's not a law so it doesn't have to be followed.
If I am in the same boat as you but on the RB side, and you say I am biased and that's what you hate about the forum, that means that you are biased too. I'm not trying to be mean and believe me I really only want to see you happy with your car, regardless of which product it is. I absolutely do have a right to say theirs is better. You're saying it's not. It's called an opinion and we all have them and I'm fine with that. I also say that everyone should only be using Royal Purple synthetic oil in the rotaries too. That's what I like about this forum, everyone has their own opinion. Go "next door" and you'll find that most everyone thinks one way and that if you are different, something is wrong. That's being biased.
I am absolutely sincere when I say get the one that makes you happy. That's all that matters. If you are waiting for test results to do so, do it properly. Test them all in the car while moving and choose the one that you like best. You called this thread a "showdown" yet you don't like my shootout approach to support the one I like. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. It's not a law so it doesn't have to be followed.
08-08-2005, 03:53 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
It doesn't quite work that way. When the vehicle is in motion, all the heat in the engine bay gets vented. The box is mostly for sound. Also, connecting the ram air duct to the rb unit will actually limit the air source while idle in traffic ect.
first- check you under hood temps.
second- the box is to make sure air is comign from outside and NOT the hot engien bay. the way the box is shaped is for airflow and sound. but the WHY of the box is for outside air. check aem- they didnt use a box but took the filter completely out of the bay. Why? cooler air.
third-it does not limit airflow at idle. but even if it possibly did how could that effect performance? if for some reason it sucked less air at idle because of the air duct them the PCM would lower the amount of fuel at idle to keep it at stoich AFR which would mean better mpg when in traffic. cooler air is denser air denser air means more air in which means more power.
08-08-2005, 03:56 PM
#61
Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
Also, connecting the ram air duct to the rb unit will actually limit the air source while idle in traffic ect.
The surface of the opening on the cold air duct is larger than the hole on the REVi box where the air enters. That larger area tapers then down to the exact size of the REVi box opening... so how would it "limit the air source"? I just don't understand this logic.
08-08-2005, 04:35 PM
#62
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Just got my RVEi Duct
Originally Posted by zoom44
that has so much wrong with it.
first- check you under hood temps.
second- the box is to make sure air is comign from outside and NOT the hot engien bay. the way the box is shaped is for airflow and sound. but the WHY of the box is for outside air. check aem- they didnt use a box but took the filter completely out of the bay. Why? cooler air.
third-it does not limit airflow at idle. but even if it possibly did how could that effect performance? if for some reason it sucked less air at idle because of the air duct them the PCM would lower the amount of fuel at idle to keep it at stoich AFR which would mean better mpg when in traffic. cooler air is denser air denser air means more air in which means more power.
first- check you under hood temps.
second- the box is to make sure air is comign from outside and NOT the hot engien bay. the way the box is shaped is for airflow and sound. but the WHY of the box is for outside air. check aem- they didnt use a box but took the filter completely out of the bay. Why? cooler air.
third-it does not limit airflow at idle. but even if it possibly did how could that effect performance? if for some reason it sucked less air at idle because of the air duct them the PCM would lower the amount of fuel at idle to keep it at stoich AFR which would mean better mpg when in traffic. cooler air is denser air denser air means more air in which means more power.
Now to install it all. Doing that most likely be on Wednesday. :p Aside from the impromptu announcement. Lets face it, “Darkmanz8” has made up his mind and is attempting to justify the decision.
That’s fine. However, when justification moves into the realm of the up-surd then this is not longer a intelligent discussion. “Darkmanz8” my question was rhetorical and “zoom44” is correct so I do not need to restate the obvious.
You would be ahead by taking Rotary God’s suggestion and do what makes you happy. You do not need our consent or approval for your choice.
We on the other hand are not fools, so foolish retorts to a clearly rhetorical question only makes one look foolish. I was not intending to make you appear foolish.
You said you were on the fence so I thought that my question would help you consider what to everyone else seems quite obvious, cold air from outside the car is much better than hot air in the engine bay.
Some people believe that according to the math bees don’t fly, but don’t tell the bees that.
So you have made you choice. Great, bully for you. Secure your K&N intake unit and have fun.
08-08-2005, 05:25 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Dragonrider
Just got delivery of my REVi Duct. :D Now to install it all. Doing that most likely be on Wednesday. :p
Aside from the impromptu announcement. Lets face it, “Darkmanz8” has made up his mind and is attempting to justify the decision. That’s fine. However, when justification moves into the realm of the up-surd then this is not longer a intelligent discussion.
“Darkmanz8” my question was rhetorical and “zoom44” is correct so I do not need to restate the obvious.
You would be ahead by taking Rotary God’s suggestion and do what makes you happy. You do not need our consent or approval for your choice.
We on the other hand are not fools, so foolish retorts to a clearly rhetorical question only makes one look foolish. I was not intending to make you appear foolish.
You said you were on the fence so I thought that my question would help you consider what to everyone else seems quite obvious, cold air from outside the car is much better than hot air in the engine bay.
Some people believe that according to the math bees don’t fly, but don’t tell the bees that.
So you have made you choice. Great, bully for you. Secure your K&N intake unit and have fun.
Now to install it all. Doing that most likely be on Wednesday. :p Aside from the impromptu announcement. Lets face it, “Darkmanz8” has made up his mind and is attempting to justify the decision.
That’s fine. However, when justification moves into the realm of the up-surd then this is not longer a intelligent discussion. “Darkmanz8” my question was rhetorical and “zoom44” is correct so I do not need to restate the obvious.
You would be ahead by taking Rotary God’s suggestion and do what makes you happy. You do not need our consent or approval for your choice.
We on the other hand are not fools, so foolish retorts to a clearly rhetorical question only makes one look foolish. I was not intending to make you appear foolish.
You said you were on the fence so I thought that my question would help you consider what to everyone else seems quite obvious, cold air from outside the car is much better than hot air in the engine bay.
Some people believe that according to the math bees don’t fly, but don’t tell the bees that.
So you have made you choice. Great, bully for you. Secure your K&N intake unit and have fun.
like I said before you are foolish for thinking that the revi will make more power. Hot air, cold air, medium air..........The k&n will suck more air and make more power. I don't want to spend $300+ for 2 hp and a good sound......Sorry
08-08-2005, 05:31 PM
#64
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I can't believe nobody said anything about the weird decision Racing Beat made when they designed an exhaust that weighs 10lbs more than stock.
You can claim apples and oranges but it still reflects their decision-making process, which seems a bit out of whack to me.
You can claim apples and oranges but it still reflects their decision-making process, which seems a bit out of whack to me.
08-08-2005, 05:32 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by David_M
the test in Import tuner was in their july issue IIRC.
this is quoted from the RB website
[B]Stock vs Racing Beat
REVi Intake Adds An Average 1.95 HP Over The Stock System - 2000-8900 RPM Range
Peak RPM Gains Over Stock - 3.5 HP @ 8300 RPM
Maximum Power Gain Over Stock - 5.8 HP @ 8900 RPM
this is quoted from the RB website
[B]Stock vs Racing Beat
REVi Intake Adds An Average 1.95 HP Over The Stock System - 2000-8900 RPM Range
Peak RPM Gains Over Stock - 3.5 HP @ 8300 RPM
Maximum Power Gain Over Stock - 5.8 HP @ 8900 RPM
I always love the area under the curve argument for the revi... wow, 1.95hp is pretty impressive - too bad its not even enough to get out of the error band of the dyno
08-08-2005, 06:14 PM
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Ok this is getting out of hand...
1) This topic has been discussed to a point where its been beaten to death
2) We all know it...one way or another.... there is an overwhelming amount of biased comments on RB products on this board
3) DARKMAZ8, you have went from posting a thread on asking ppl to discuss the 2 diff intakes to make your decision in choosing one.......
TO
Acting like you work for K&N and that you feel like the board has killed your dog or sth and you're trying to fight back on everyone
4) we should all chill
5) intakes dont make much HP for our cars.... if you're shopping for an intake for our car that will get you more HP that you can FEEL.... im sorry you're on crack
6) The new K&N intake has made some progress.... give it a chance.... is it better than RB? Who knows? Is it worst than RB? Who knows?
7) Get the intake that floats your boat, i like RB, he likes K&N, she likes AEM
8) Just get something that you personally feel good about and something that you wont regret putting in your car........you dont need to justify anyone here on this board that you bought a superior product than what others have.
Happy Modding my fellow 8 owners
1) This topic has been discussed to a point where its been beaten to death
2) We all know it...one way or another.... there is an overwhelming amount of biased comments on RB products on this board
3) DARKMAZ8, you have went from posting a thread on asking ppl to discuss the 2 diff intakes to make your decision in choosing one.......
TO
Acting like you work for K&N and that you feel like the board has killed your dog or sth and you're trying to fight back on everyone
4) we should all chill
5) intakes dont make much HP for our cars.... if you're shopping for an intake for our car that will get you more HP that you can FEEL.... im sorry you're on crack
6) The new K&N intake has made some progress.... give it a chance.... is it better than RB? Who knows? Is it worst than RB? Who knows?
7) Get the intake that floats your boat, i like RB, he likes K&N, she likes AEM
8) Just get something that you personally feel good about and something that you wont regret putting in your car........you dont need to justify anyone here on this board that you bought a superior product than what others have.
Happy Modding my fellow 8 owners
08-08-2005, 06:23 PM
#68
The Professor
Originally Posted by r0tor
I always love the area under the curve argument for the revi... wow, 1.95hp is pretty impressive - too bad its not even enough to get out of the error band of the dyno
Simple calculus guys, area under the curve will always win over single stiff peaks.
08-08-2005, 06:24 PM
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DarkMaz8,
Remember that there are huge differences in HP preformances from car to car. So even if some post a certian gain it does not mean you will get the same performance. So what ever numbers are posted, it is highly unlikely that you can reproduce what ever is posted.
I purchased my revi, for performance, sound and looks. The perfromance I got from the Revi is in MPG my car increased by 1.6 MPG and HP. The sound was another factor. Finally I do not like the look of the K &N filter.
Remember that there are huge differences in HP preformances from car to car. So even if some post a certian gain it does not mean you will get the same performance. So what ever numbers are posted, it is highly unlikely that you can reproduce what ever is posted.
I purchased my revi, for performance, sound and looks. The perfromance I got from the Revi is in MPG my car increased by 1.6 MPG and HP. The sound was another factor. Finally I do not like the look of the K &N filter.
08-08-2005, 06:26 PM
#70
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take note that i did not question his choice of the KNN or the stats of thenew KNN. from wha ti can tell they have done a good job of re-engineering it. I think its a nice piece now. The only thing i answered was his strange reasoning about the airflow of the duct. I still think the revi will ingest cooler air and the KNN will still be ingesting hot under hood temp air. but thats a choice one has to make and one of the things one has to wigh against price etc. he certainly wouldnt hurt his performance with this intake like the original typhoon did.
08-08-2005, 07:12 PM
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I hate how so many threads degrade into an argument of 'logic' -- It is tiring.
Without facts, (although someone will always question whatever is put forth as facts) these type of threads in the end, offer nothing of value and end up being a waste of time. DarkMan8, go to the lounge and ask some sort of other rhetorical question. That is the place for it.
Oh, BTW, I am happy with my REVi and have no opinion on the new K&N. I spent the cash on the REVi and have no plans to buy another intake any time soon. In time there will be an equal number of people (?) who feel the same way about their K&N or AEM.
Without facts, (although someone will always question whatever is put forth as facts) these type of threads in the end, offer nothing of value and end up being a waste of time. DarkMan8, go to the lounge and ask some sort of other rhetorical question. That is the place for it.
Oh, BTW, I am happy with my REVi and have no opinion on the new K&N. I spent the cash on the REVi and have no plans to buy another intake any time soon. In time there will be an equal number of people (?) who feel the same way about their K&N or AEM.
08-08-2005, 08:08 PM
#74
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You guys are hilarious. I am just proving a point of biased opinions here. I totally respect rb and their products but I feel they are a tad watered down for my tastes. Let's just wait and see what the new k&n does and then we can evaluate it better.
08-08-2005, 10:03 PM
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You're proving this? That people are biased towards their own equipment or (in your case...don't deny it!) the equipment they've decided to buy? That's sort of like proving the sky is blue...everyone has pretty much already figured that out! I do agree with you that RB has more than just purely performance on their list of design goals...and I'm OK with that, because I share those goals (e.g. sound, looks, etc). I'm not going to run out and give K&N the peak HP nod purely on the "evidence" that it may flow better at idle though :D
One odd thing about the REVi, I think Polak dynoed it and got significantly better results than those posted by RB. I've always found that odd, but perhaps the PCM learning to undo the better flow has something to do with that.
jds
PS: DANGEROUS SIDE TOPIC ALERT: To the guy asking about RG's endoresement of Royal Purple...FWIW I concur. I ran it for years w/ my FD and I'd do the same with the 8 if Mazda weren't handling the oil changes right now. Good stuff...
One odd thing about the REVi, I think Polak dynoed it and got significantly better results than those posted by RB. I've always found that odd, but perhaps the PCM learning to undo the better flow has something to do with that.
jds
PS: DANGEROUS SIDE TOPIC ALERT: To the guy asking about RG's endoresement of Royal Purple...FWIW I concur. I ran it for years w/ my FD and I'd do the same with the 8 if Mazda weren't handling the oil changes right now. Good stuff...