shawn81

That was what i was asking but i know it can't be 12 psi or any higher that say 7... so there is still hope to get about 300 bhp but uping the boost and ECU and catless.............

IZoomZoomI

i think it uses the blitz access piggyback ecu. That's what the scion s/c included. Made the scion an extra 15whp lol.

Japan8

Haven't heard much since its initial development in Japan. The Greddy turbo does popup every now and then though. Could be because of the strong image of turbos going with rotary engines... dunno.

zaku

biltz kit use e-manage. Several months ago one guy once scan some pictures of this kit and put it onthe forum. I once read a test report on a HK car megazine, the picture on that book showing e-manage was used

ddub

So how does it work? Is it something you have to install in order to not build boost and uninstall when you want to build boost again? Or is it something that turns on/off with a switch? Solenoid? Valve? Just curious how you switch from wanting the supercharger to build boost to not, and if this requires pulling over and changing somerthing under the hood or being able to do it while driving if you wanted to.

ddub

Forgot to quote this one. But since when? Superchargers can boost without load just free revving it. They are belt driven, that's all that matters. You rev, supercharger pulley spins faster, supercharger compresses air.

The load just helps turbos spin, superchargers always spin at a fixed rate.

ЯX-8

That engine with the supercharger on the picture is a toyota corolla kit.

9-K Rever

Took these pics today.

Thought they fit in right with the conversation.

Tallked to the developing company, sounds like a great application.

Still underdevelpment though.

But, the company seems to know what they are doing, and the unit sits well in the engine bay compared to other F/I applications I have seen for the 8.

Gas milage of course won't make anyone happy though.

9-K Rever

shawn81

Great pics man thatx sooo much would you ask them what PSI they are running . also whould you ask to see if they dynoed that car to see some #s. man that was small intercooooler. but looks nice ... Dude thank you again.

bascho

The underhood pic looks really nice......but I question the functionality of the intercooler it that location. Perhaps rerouting the tubes for use of a FMIC would be more functional.....IMO. The set-up looks really hot for 'showing' the car though.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

They are load controlled by something called the throttle. When you don't open it nothing gets in and no matter how much you spin it you can't compress nothing. It's the same as the engine itself, it's a compressor so how does it not make power when spinning in no load?
It has no mass inside to compress. Compression depends on the mass that is there to get compressed. Just volume dosen't mean a thing, if there is a vacuume in there nothing gets done. This is the basis for all engine mods, get more mass in. Volume is always the same.
People look at a giant roots blower like they see on a dragster and think if it is spinning it's making boost. Not so, if that were true the engine couldn't idle. When the throttle is closed no boost just vacuum.
Another clue, if you drive down the road now and there is 15 in of vacuum and the put a SC on it you will drive down that same road at the same speed with the same vacuum. If it didn't then you would be accelerating.

Clear??


One more thing. That IC can't work there........

globi

^ Actually there is an easy way to show this: Take a vacuum cleaner and turn it on. As soon as you block the tube with your hand the speed of the pump will increase.
Why? The speed of the pump increases, because there's less air to pump = less work to be done.

shawn81

Thank you Richard that was nice. Dude how is ur SC coming along???

ddub

Not clear.

You press the gas in neutral (free revving), throttle opens, more air comes in, pulleys spin faster/more air in, s/c compresses air. With a turbo this will not work, though.

Also, depending on the design of the supercharger, from what I understand without a bypass valve the charger CAN build boost at idle. Depends on a lot of variables but from what I have collected, this is true, and it will cause drag because it's showing less vac than it should since it is trying to compress that little air being sucked in.

The only reason I bring all this up, is because I've seen it happen in real world applications.

Also
What do you mean? Throttle percent does not equal load! Load is commonly referred to as resistance on the flywheel, ie "loading" the engine. This is why you do not need load to build boost with a s/c. You can sit on a flat ground, in neutral, mash the gas, and build boost with a supercharger setup.

Am I missing something?

Spin9k

Looks like the Power Enterprises setup at SEMA. Unless they hood the IC and force feed it air thru the old intake hole, and separate it from the intake, how is it cooling? And even then .. the little 3" hole is hardly enough I would think (?).. maybe up from below (?). A bit wacky overall, and seemingly ignoring the laws of physics.

Just as bad, or maybe worse, the intake is pretty much sucking hot IC exhaust air plus hot engine heated air.... and then the IC is trying to cool it ?

Looks cool thought (no pun internded)

I do note a whitish filtery thing below the IC, any idea what that is? Maybe that is the answer to the mystery of how this sucker can fly And thanks for visiting them, we need more hands on people checking these future products for credibility.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

You are not paying attention. If you open the throttle the engine speeds up right? In gear or out right? With out SC out of gear you can't get to low vacuum (high pressure) before you have to lift because the revs go to the moon. That is because the engine is making more power then the resistance so it revs.

No you did not see it with your own eyes unless it was in your dreams. You cannot break the laws of physics any more then I can. Read again what I said about driving at the same speed and on the same road, the engine has to be making the same power before and after or you would be going faster.

If there is more (less vacuum) manifold pressure then it is ingesting more.
Think about this, the engine is already supercharged by mother nature at 14.7 psi. The engine doesn't know it is not in outer space. It goes faster with more mass so if you do not get it in it doesn't speed up. If it gets in it has to make more power so it can't be in neutral or it will blow up from over reving.

If you put all the SC in the world on top of your engine it will not make boost if the intake is blocked off. If there is more mass in the intake it makes more power out the flywheel. If there is nothing for that power to do it will just rev up until it blows up.

That is all I have to say if you can't see it then I give up.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I'm not sure of that. I think it will work harder because it increases the amount of vacuum it has to pull. In the vacuum mode it is not the mass that creates the work because there isn't more then it will free flow.

I can't try it here so you do it and let me know. It would be nice if you had a way of checking the amp load.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

My SC is just about done, just the new reverse flow version has to be finished. However everything but the front volute is built. The intake is in the hands of the fabricator.

globi

It only has to work harder if its a piston based vacuum pump where the piston has to work against atmospheric pressure. Vacuum cleaners usually have centrifugal pumps, so they don't really have to work against atmospheric pressure.
Regarding the amp load: At least we know that the voltage is constant. If you leave the voltage constant and the rpm of the pump raises you can conclude that the workload must have been reduced.

Maybe a better example would be if you had a leafblower and simply close the air intake of the leaf blower, but most people don't have leaf blowers.

9-K Rever

No problem.

The majority of the cars at the show are exactly that, just for show.

I couldn't find where the intercooler was actuly connected and there were no modifications to the hood or additional duct work to feed it.

Lots of project cars there, but haveing a physical presentation is most important, and they had the best physical presentation of all the F/I 8's in the show, even better than RE AMEMIYA I feel.

I was disapointed with his booth. They were more interested in selling DVD's of chicks and their new toy line over the development of their cars.

9-K Rever

ddub

I might be able to see if I could understand half of what you're saying. Simple grammar and sentence structure goes a long way.

And I'm not talking about going full throttle and holding it there. Yes that'd rev way too fast for the s/c to do anything. What about holding it at 5k rpms for 30 seconds, a minute, etc? Try it.

That's basically all I got out of what you said. I seriously can't follow what you're trying to say, sorry. It's not the technicality of your language at all, either.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Exactly, how are you going to hold it at 5000 for 30 sec if the throttle is all the way open. What say you go out and try it on your car right now. Plus put a vacuum gauge on it and see if you can hold it at 0 or even 2 inches without it blowing up. So if you can't do it with 0 or say 5 inches then how can you do it with boost?

Look at it this way, forget vacuum. Look at it like they do in airplanes start at zero or absolute pressure. The gauge will read 29.92 inches at sea level at 60f in dry air. Start the engine and the pressure will go down, open the throttle and the pressure will go up. Fly someplace and the pressure will go down as you get higher. As you get higher you have to open the throttle more to get the same pressure in the engine so you can keep the same power.

So why doesn't the engine think you just drove below sea level when you supercharge? It can't know. Therefore the only thing that counts is the amount of mass you get in the manifold. If you have more mass there is more power and the engine revs or is restrained by some sort of load. This all holds true with turbos as well.

Now I really give up, if you don't get it then I can't help you. I suggest you get RotaryGod to explain it. He writes alot better then I do. In fact if you still don't get I'll have him do it.

ddub

WTF?! Are you listening?! I said I'm not talking about going full throttle. I said hold it at 5k for 30 seconds, minute, whatever. PARTIAL THROTTLE. Ever done that before? It's pretty simple... You press the gas partially until it reaches 5k, and then hold it there. What a concept?


Why should I believe anything rotarygod says? Sure he knows some stuff, but a lot of what he says is opinionated. He is a very opinionated person; as I am so don't try saying that, I already know. But the issue with him is that he takes what he says as fact and no other way around it. I've read a fair amount of threads on here, and rx7club, where someone proves him wrong and guess what happens? Never posts in the thread again, just disappears. Funny huh?

Rotarygod is a smart guy, but he is way too arrogant in his knowledge and is unwilling to yield. And unfortunately the readers of this board think long written posts with lots of technical jargon means someone knows everything.


I'll stand by my statements that I've seen it in real world applications. Revving out of gear (NOT WOT, but rather holding the gas at PARTIAL throttle) and building boost, as well as inferior supercharger setups trying to build boost at idle, thus causing drag on the engine and thus requiring a higher than normal idle to compensate.

9-K Rever

Take a peak at this.

9-K Rever

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I have enough standing in the supercharger industry and on the forum so that I could have just given you a two word answer: you're wrong. No one would have thought less of it. Instead I go through all the trouble of trying to explain it to you over and over again. Then instead of listining you try insulting me.
You don't deserve an education.
If you want to learn and not listen to hearsay from your buddies go to the axial flow thread and read just the first 6 pages including the attachments.
Don't talk back until you do.