sstricker

i know.... oh well.... you live and learn, right?

i should have just waited for the MS intake.......... poop!

sstricker

and now they want me to wait until moday to call them....... that sucks, cause im really pissed now! errrrrr......

Jabberwock

I just don't understand.... The company is so messed up. Why would they give you the intake to test it, when engineers are already and still testing it.

Its like they are trying to save money by having the customers test it and if it fails then anything that goes wrong is the full responisiblity of the customer and the manufacturer and vendor can just say..."Oops, that was a failure." I'm pretty sure Simota and Umnitza don't offer a Warranty for the RX8 if any problems occur because of the Simota Intake. If they do offer a warranty, it would probably be just for the intake.

Another thing is that its seems so obvious the problems are due to the Intake, but umnitza is basically trying to say that the problem seems to be more of a problem because of your car sstricker, which is just stupid.

1+1=2?...Simota Intake Off + Stock Intake On= Running Car
Simota Intake On + Turn on the RX8 = Kaboom!...hehe

sstricker

i know i know.... it is sooo true! now i get to wait and see if they are going to refund my money.... if not i might be on judge judy!!!! i love that show!!!!

frankcastle123

all you have to do is call your credit card and despute the charge. they will refund the money and then take it away from the company that charged you..

frankcastle123

sstriker do you still have the vfad on your car?

sstricker

yes. the vfad is still on there

umnitza

Philip, with immature resonses like these, it's a wonder vendors work as hard as we do to help the community with a wide range of products.

At no point have we said it's not the intake. However you have made illogical leaps from one statement to another and taken our words out of context.

1) The intakes were tested.
2) The intakes CONTINUE to always be tested if something does come up.
3) When a customer complained, he immediately got his intake returned and all his money back. What's more, when he re-ordered (by his own choice to help test out the new intake that we thought had fixed the issues) we didn't FORCE him to, it was his own will.
4) The new intake pricing is $179 LOWER than it was originally - we don't see anyone saying how wonderful that is.
5) Any customer car that experiences issues may or may not be the result of installation error, alternative sources, or just plain bad luck.

Making leaps of faith and furthermore inaccurate comments like these creates a dangerous situation because it unnecessarily prejudices a buyer against a product that may not have any faults - think Audi's Unintended Acceleration debacle of the 80s or the Chevy Side Impact Explosion of the 90s.

This desire to publicly lynch a company because we try to be on the cutting edge and provide products with quality, good price, and support is an undesirable byproduct of the internet age where it's easier to type some nonsense or "GOOGLE" some knowledge.

As mentioned already, if the customer wishes to discuss this with us we are available 10am - 6pm M-F and 10-4pm on Saturdays (today we had to close early on the phones) but we'll be opening again on Monday.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

sound like you are beta testing without anyone being told.

beers

frankcastle123

I'm prety sure that your problem is that you still have the vfad on your car.

Jabberwock

Ummm...ok now you are being contradictory. And how is my response immature, I was just responding to sstricker, which he also responded to with a comical remark JUDGE JUDY...hehe

On post #213 you stated
And now in your latest post, you state that the intakes are tested and are continuing to be tested if something comes up.....

What are you trying to say? Is it engineers are continuing to test the intake or is it only being tested when something comes up? If the latter is the case, then have the engineers started up the testing procedure again because sstricker's intake seems faulty?

Your original post #213 stated that engineers are continuing to test it. Why not just get it tested and have it done with? I'm pretty sure it costs way too much for a company to go through all of the reverse logistics it does if a product keeps on getting retested when something comes up. Especially the loss of sales, redevelopment costs, shipping, etc... Plus, most companies know that quality control costs and failure costs are way too much if a company wants to succeed. Simota and Umnitza should know that if a product is designed correctly then you will reduce any future problems and unneccesary costs.

Simota should have just designed the intake correctly in the first place, then none of these problems would have occurred. However, it was great that Simota/Umnitza tried to resolve the problems as quick as possible, but it seems that the intake is still causing some problems.

1) The intakes were tested - Then why did you say that they are continuing to be tested???? If the intakes were tested, then either the tests showed that the intakes are a failure or a success. From what you told us, the forum members, you said that Simota fixed all of the intakes.

Criticizing individual customers and forum members, like Zoom Zoom, sstricker, and I are not going to get you anywhere. Where is the customer service in that? Bashing and criticizing your customers is such a great way to do business and increase sales, isn't it? As a customer we have the right to make opinions about a product and we also have a right to buy a non-defective product.

Thank You

Jabberwock

Frankcastle123, from my understanding, the VFAD would not adversely impact the RX8's performance.

Many Rx8 owners with the K&N V2 intake have been running perfectly fine without removing the VFAD.

frankcastle123

yes but if you look at the k&n , the intake can still breathe from all sides. the vfad in the case of this intake will not provide enough air because the intake only has a front opening therefore it can only get air from the front and the vfad does not provide the adequate air because most of the air probably escapes because of the large front opening on the intake. but this is just an opinion.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

a grossly incorrect one ...

Jabberwock

Actually the K&N is designed similarly to the Simota intake. I attached a picture below.

Companies do recomend removing the VFAD, but there is no benefit to removing it and most say its a waste of time to take off the bumper to remove it. The only real benefit would be that it will reduce a little weight.

I don't think the VFAD really is even functional with aftermarket intakes, unless you integrate it into an aftermarket intake and seal it, which I would like to try in the future.

The intake gets adequate air... What is your opinion on the RB Intake without the RB duct then frankcastle123? The RB intake is fully enclosed and it still gets really good flow and an adequate amount of air. I don't want to offend you in any way, but you may have to research more on the design and function of an intake.

The VFAD actually seemed to be more of a duct that was capable of being a Noise Reducer than anything else.

I think you are misunderstanding what the VFAD actually is.

Here are some links about the VFAD:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...highlight=VFAD
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...highlight=VFAD
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...highlight=VFAD

Jabberwock

Responding to Frankcastle123, I can't be entirely sure, but I believe that the MAF screens rather than the VFAD has more of affect on the intake. K&N found a benefit in retaining one MAF screen, which Simota doesn't have. The MAF screen seems to stablize erratic idles, so I don't know if the lack of a Maf Screen in Simota's intake design is why sstricker is having problems.

Sstricker's situation seems more dramatic and unusual. In his case and just speculation, the Simota Intake could just be a part of the problem that caused a bigger problem, but don't take my word for it.

But a problem with acceleration can be caused by intake problems, which is why we can speculate that the intake is the problem.

rotarygod

Just so you guys know, the rotary makes about 8 hp per pound of air used per minute. If the engine does say 220 hp that means it is about 27.5 lbs of air per minute used at full power. Keep in mind you are almost never at full power/rpm so this is really just an extreme to make a point. If we take 27.5 and divide by .066, we can get the approx cfm necessary to make that much power. That equals 416.66 cfm. Maybe not exact but close enough. If we had absolutely perfect airflow through a venturi at roughly ambient pressures (assuming a perfect day at sea level), we'd have about 137.7 cfm or airflow per square inch of available flow area. In other words with the perfect intake, we could flow enough air through 3.02 sq. inches of airspace to feed the engine at full power. A 2" pipe has 3.14 sq inches of area to it so this means that a perfect flowing 2" opening could supply the engine the necessary air to make full power. Someone go figure out how much available area the stock intake system has with VFAD both open and closed. It is much mroe than this. It does have a less than optimum shape but easily outflows that the engine needs. The whole point to this is that the stock intake is not a restriction. If you got high enough in power it would be but from a usable perspective, it isn't. Both intakes can provide the necessary amount of flow to the engine. This much mean something else is going on in the intake that allows one to make more power. It's called tuning. Since airflow on this engine isn't a problem, it easy to see why no intake gives large gains. Only small gains are seen as a result of different tuning and that can't do a whole lot. On other cars the intakes are overly restrictive so they benefit better from new intakes.

After you can outflow the engine, it's pointless. You aren't doing anything else for power. The only way you would is if you outflowed it by raising the pressure. This would mean you are compressing the air into a smaller space and this would get more into the engine. I was originally going to do flowbench tests on each intake system out there but it dawned on me that they all flow more than the engine needs already. Therefore the airflow tests would have been a waste of time. People would have bought only what I would have shown flowed the most on a bench which means nothing. I didn't want to see a good intake not sell as well because some people wouldn't know how to interpret numbers.

VFAD was originally thought to be a tuning device for power using acoustics. This was partly correct. It is a tuning device utilizing acoustics but it is for noise control and not power. It may in fact have a small tuning benefit from a power standpoint when attached to a sealed chamber behind it but apparently not enough to matter. Any intake after this point would get more of a benefit from being insulated from the engine bay than it would from removing the VFAD. I'd personally remove it with a K&N system but I also like having everything out of the way that doesn't need to be there.

Jabberwock

Thanks a lot Rotarygod for clairying things about the VFAD.

frankcastle123

so the question is would it be worth getting this intake or just ask for the refund.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

once again,
beta testing without being asked... just wrong..

racing beat got it right the first time... k&n did not..

you think the big companys would learn...

that weapon r might not be to far off...

beers

sstricker

and i think the answer is, use your own judgement. PERSONALLY..... i think it is the intake again, for the 2nd time now. i think it is screwing with the MAF sensor somehow, again... this all just may be a coinsidense, but who knows, you might get one that works properly.

i'm not ruling out an already existing problem that for some reason, with more air, the sensors are not reading properly and freaking out.

i'm not an ENGINEER.... so perhaps my TESTING methods are off.... i mean honestly... this is a "plug-and-play" installation. i could do this with my eyes closed, in the dark, with my little tykes took kit...... SO IMPROPER INSTALLATION IS NOT AN ISSUE!!

(and yes, the JUDGE JUDY comment was a "tongue in cheek" joke...... ) i will get a refund, or i call my creditor....... i'm not getting stuck with a 4 pound $200 paper weight..........

Jabberwock

It just costs way too much for companies, especially small companies, to make a failing product. For the RX8, it seems impossible to just slap an air filter on a pipe and you get hp. I'm assuming extensive research has to go into developing parts for the RX8.

Correct, quality, and reliable design = happy customers.

Add Rotary Extreme to that list swoope, their intake was also discontinued and they seem to be still trying to design a new one.

sstricker

well...... i think i might know another company headed down the same road......????????

Jabberwock

Haha...

umnitza

This will be my last post on this subject until I talk to the engineers about what the VFAD may or may not be doing.

What the intake may or may not be doing but I'm going to make it 100% clear to you all:

1) I respond to individual inaccuracies about our ethics, support, and products. I am very quick to prevent stupid internet banter and sofa engineering/google intellect from clouding the issue regarding any or all three of the latter things (ethics, support, products). If individuals choose to stand on a podium and shout fire, I'll be the fireman every time.

That is a DEFENSIVE posture, not an attacking one, and I will always defend, but never attack.

2) SEARCHING for possible inaccuracies in my statements means you are INFERRING too much from what is being said
a) all the intakes are tested by SIMOTA - we do our own testing of course, but within reason - they do a WHOLE LOT MORE than we do and have more experience with a wider variety of cars
b) we sell a product, we get the best information from our suppliers that we can, and we pass it on. SIMOTA tested this intake on 2 RX8s, for the 2 weeks that we were waiting and found that the old intake had issues that the new one sent to SStricker did not. Yet, they will continue to perform further tests no matter what to determine any possible future issues that may arise (perhaps they encounter that their urethane breaks down after being exposed to higher temps, whatever <-- this is an example).

3) Knee-jerk reactions to supposed problems come across as juvenile, abrasive, obnoxious, and overly facetious. When two companies (Simota AND Umnitza) are trying their best to provide the best possible product at the lowest price, why not give us the benefit of the doubt instead of maintaining the posture that everyone is trying to get your money and not do what is right. Maybe you've been burned by other companies, but we ALWAYS produce. No matter what.

Now, it's up to SStricker AND Simota to examine the possibilities for the root causes. IF <-- big IF -- they are intake related (and it's not just a coincidence) we will decide what to do at that point. Until then, quit flaming the fire for no reason with flatulence.