umnitza/simota intake pics
04-01-2006, 11:28 PM
#251
Originally Posted by umnitza
This will be my last post on this subject until I talk to the engineers about what the VFAD may or may not be doing.
What the intake may or may not be doing but I'm going to make it 100% clear to you all:
1) I respond to individual inaccuracies about our ethics, support, and products. I am very quick to prevent stupid internet banter and sofa engineering/google intellect from clouding the issue regarding any or all three of the latter things (ethics, support, products). If individuals choose to stand on a podium and shout fire, I'll be the fireman every time.
That is a DEFENSIVE posture, not an attacking one, and I will always defend, but never attack.
2) SEARCHING for possible inaccuracies in my statements means you are INFERRING too much from what is being said
a) all the intakes are tested by SIMOTA - we do our own testing of course, but within reason - they do a WHOLE LOT MORE than we do and have more experience with a wider variety of cars
b) we sell a product, we get the best information from our suppliers that we can, and we pass it on. SIMOTA tested this intake on 2 RX8s, for the 2 weeks that we were waiting and found that the old intake had issues that the new one sent to SStricker did not. Yet, they will continue to perform further tests no matter what to determine any possible future issues that may arise (perhaps they encounter that their urethane breaks down after being exposed to higher temps, whatever <-- this is an example).
3) Knee-jerk reactions to supposed problems come across as juvenile, abrasive, obnoxious, and overly facetious. When two companies (Simota AND Umnitza) are trying their best to provide the best possible product at the lowest price, why not give us the benefit of the doubt instead of maintaining the posture that everyone is trying to get your money and not do what is right. Maybe you've been burned by other companies, but we ALWAYS produce. No matter what.
Now, it's up to SStricker AND Simota to examine the possibilities for the root causes. IF <-- big IF -- they are intake related (and it's not just a coincidence) we will decide what to do at that point. Until then, quit flaming the fire for no reason with flatulence.
What the intake may or may not be doing but I'm going to make it 100% clear to you all:
1) I respond to individual inaccuracies about our ethics, support, and products. I am very quick to prevent stupid internet banter and sofa engineering/google intellect from clouding the issue regarding any or all three of the latter things (ethics, support, products). If individuals choose to stand on a podium and shout fire, I'll be the fireman every time.
That is a DEFENSIVE posture, not an attacking one, and I will always defend, but never attack.
2) SEARCHING for possible inaccuracies in my statements means you are INFERRING too much from what is being said
a) all the intakes are tested by SIMOTA - we do our own testing of course, but within reason - they do a WHOLE LOT MORE than we do and have more experience with a wider variety of cars
b) we sell a product, we get the best information from our suppliers that we can, and we pass it on. SIMOTA tested this intake on 2 RX8s, for the 2 weeks that we were waiting and found that the old intake had issues that the new one sent to SStricker did not. Yet, they will continue to perform further tests no matter what to determine any possible future issues that may arise (perhaps they encounter that their urethane breaks down after being exposed to higher temps, whatever <-- this is an example).
3) Knee-jerk reactions to supposed problems come across as juvenile, abrasive, obnoxious, and overly facetious. When two companies (Simota AND Umnitza) are trying their best to provide the best possible product at the lowest price, why not give us the benefit of the doubt instead of maintaining the posture that everyone is trying to get your money and not do what is right. Maybe you've been burned by other companies, but we ALWAYS produce. No matter what.
Now, it's up to SStricker AND Simota to examine the possibilities for the root causes. IF <-- big IF -- they are intake related (and it's not just a coincidence) we will decide what to do at that point. Until then, quit flaming the fire for no reason with flatulence.
racing beat did it right the first time, k& n did not... and i guess you or who you represent did not. twice....
if you are going beta test and charge money to do it just be honest. that makes a win win situation..... other than that it is just a turbonator.
beers
04-02-2006, 01:04 AM
#254
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There is no reason for you to be Defensive, Umnitza. We are not bashing you guys as a company or anything like that. We are just discussing about an intake, that many of us were highly anticipating as a great product to have. The only reason we would bash you is if you gave us a product that caused a problem and did not do anything to fix it. The first time this happened you tried to get it fixed quick and that was great, so for now we can only speculate.
Sstricker found problems with his car AFTER he installed the intake. So we made speculations that the intake was at fault because that seems to be the most logical answer. For sstricker, the Simota intake installed the first time equaled problems, then he reinstalled the stock intake, which no problems. Now, the same thing was happening all over again. This happened to sstricker twice and the problems were similar; therefore, its easy for us to make speculations on what caused the problem.
Now you are being defensive because of the inaccuracies and accuracies of our comments, but if we are just making speculations, then you can not confirm that are statements are inaccurate or accurate.
You have to remember and understand that this is a discussion forum and we can discuss the good, bad, and almost any opinions. There is nothing wrong with making speculations.
HOWEVER, there was something that you said that was very offensive. In RX8club.com, we take pride in our SEARCH buttons and we STRESS that you use it as often as possible. So our KNOWLEDGE is not "Google" Knowledge, but RX8club.com knowledge. I have done extensive research here on the forums because out of any product that is made or sold for the RX8, RX8club.com members who own RX8s are the most informative and experienced source.
Take for example of a company that claims 10 WHP for their intake. If you do a search here on this forum, then you will notice that those claims are almost impossible because of the results FORUM members get when they do their own private dynos without a company to skew the numbers. Now if you recall, you, Umnitza, stated that you had a RX8 dyno with your intake and gained 8 HP, which we find very unlikely because most RX8 owners could not even get 2-3HP out of the intakes they bought and companies like Racing Beat who did extensive research could not get very high gains.
In addition, you, UMNITZA, should have used the search button and researched on why we make these kind of specualtions. For example, K&N and Rotary Extreme both made intakes that failed and they discontinued them. If you did a search on intakes, you will find that many companies have been struggling to make an Intake that is better than stock or even one that will work(K&N had the most trouble with similar problems as people with the SIMOTA intake are having). You will also find that designing an intake for an RX8 is rather difficult. MAF screens, Resonative horns, VFAD, and etc. are all parts from the stock intake that the successful intake products have tried to incorporate.
Now to answer statements 1,2, and 3 you posted:
1) Our intellect based on products has nothing to do with google, but from the experience of RX8 owners... That is very offensive to assume that RX8 owners use "stupid internet banter." Support is an issue that you as a company can only provide, but ETHICS is something we decide as a whole. No one here has said that Umnitza was an unethical company. We didn't say you did anything wrong, but we speculated that problems that occured on sstricker's car can be caused by the intake.
2) I wasn't searching for inaccuracies in your statements. I read what you said and it was either contradictory or confusing. I stated that you made a contradictory statement that was rather important to the matter at hand. There was no point in being defensive about that, you could just have clarified on what you meant. I mean if you say one thing and then you say something that contradicts it, then what do we trust. All I wanted to know is if the product is was still undergoing testing or if it was already tested. This is important because if it is still under going testing, then the product is still being developed and sstricker should not have recieved an intake until the tests were done.
3) There were no Knee-Jerk reactions and WE CAN NOT GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT because look at what happened with K&N's first intake. A few people bought the K&N Version 1 and it was a bad product. They claimed this and that and K&N is supposed to be a reputable company so many gave them the benefit of the doubt. The intake just did not work right. We have experienced this sort of situation before and we reacted with a simple speculation because YOU are not the only company that has had a problem with making an intake for the RX8. Furthermore, K&N flopped their old intake and made a new one that is pretty successful. If we gave you the benefit of the doubt and something went wrong, then it would cost us way too much to get things right. Our warranties may get voided, loss of time, dealership hassles, etc... If this is not covered under warranty then Mazda would not provide us with a Rental, where many of us only Have a RX8 to commute with.
The best possible product should have been a quality working product when it was released. At the LOWEST COST???? The first time this happened to sstricker it costed him a lot of time with out his car and a lot of time to get the situation fixed. The BEST possible intake would have been an intake that worked the first time. At Monetary Cost, it would be costing people who can't install intakes themselves a lot of money to go through this. Honestly, the Cost to Benefit for an intake is not there. Intakes cost way too much because the only real benefit is a nice sound. At the price you had the intake, the cost was actually worth the sound, but now, the cost of having problems with my car, going to the dealership, and worrying about my warranty is just too great for just a nice sound.
If you want me to Umnitza, I will do searches on RX8club.com for you, so that you can be well informed about designs, problems, and successes of RX8 intakes.
And to just let you know, it has been known that the Stock Intake is the best solution to some people.
Sstricker found problems with his car AFTER he installed the intake. So we made speculations that the intake was at fault because that seems to be the most logical answer. For sstricker, the Simota intake installed the first time equaled problems, then he reinstalled the stock intake, which no problems. Now, the same thing was happening all over again. This happened to sstricker twice and the problems were similar; therefore, its easy for us to make speculations on what caused the problem.
Now you are being defensive because of the inaccuracies and accuracies of our comments, but if we are just making speculations, then you can not confirm that are statements are inaccurate or accurate.
You have to remember and understand that this is a discussion forum and we can discuss the good, bad, and almost any opinions. There is nothing wrong with making speculations.
HOWEVER, there was something that you said that was very offensive. In RX8club.com, we take pride in our SEARCH buttons and we STRESS that you use it as often as possible. So our KNOWLEDGE is not "Google" Knowledge, but RX8club.com knowledge. I have done extensive research here on the forums because out of any product that is made or sold for the RX8, RX8club.com members who own RX8s are the most informative and experienced source.
Take for example of a company that claims 10 WHP for their intake. If you do a search here on this forum, then you will notice that those claims are almost impossible because of the results FORUM members get when they do their own private dynos without a company to skew the numbers. Now if you recall, you, Umnitza, stated that you had a RX8 dyno with your intake and gained 8 HP, which we find very unlikely because most RX8 owners could not even get 2-3HP out of the intakes they bought and companies like Racing Beat who did extensive research could not get very high gains.
In addition, you, UMNITZA, should have used the search button and researched on why we make these kind of specualtions. For example, K&N and Rotary Extreme both made intakes that failed and they discontinued them. If you did a search on intakes, you will find that many companies have been struggling to make an Intake that is better than stock or even one that will work(K&N had the most trouble with similar problems as people with the SIMOTA intake are having). You will also find that designing an intake for an RX8 is rather difficult. MAF screens, Resonative horns, VFAD, and etc. are all parts from the stock intake that the successful intake products have tried to incorporate.
Now to answer statements 1,2, and 3 you posted:
1) Our intellect based on products has nothing to do with google, but from the experience of RX8 owners... That is very offensive to assume that RX8 owners use "stupid internet banter." Support is an issue that you as a company can only provide, but ETHICS is something we decide as a whole. No one here has said that Umnitza was an unethical company. We didn't say you did anything wrong, but we speculated that problems that occured on sstricker's car can be caused by the intake.
2) I wasn't searching for inaccuracies in your statements. I read what you said and it was either contradictory or confusing. I stated that you made a contradictory statement that was rather important to the matter at hand. There was no point in being defensive about that, you could just have clarified on what you meant. I mean if you say one thing and then you say something that contradicts it, then what do we trust. All I wanted to know is if the product is was still undergoing testing or if it was already tested. This is important because if it is still under going testing, then the product is still being developed and sstricker should not have recieved an intake until the tests were done.
3) There were no Knee-Jerk reactions and WE CAN NOT GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT because look at what happened with K&N's first intake. A few people bought the K&N Version 1 and it was a bad product. They claimed this and that and K&N is supposed to be a reputable company so many gave them the benefit of the doubt. The intake just did not work right. We have experienced this sort of situation before and we reacted with a simple speculation because YOU are not the only company that has had a problem with making an intake for the RX8. Furthermore, K&N flopped their old intake and made a new one that is pretty successful. If we gave you the benefit of the doubt and something went wrong, then it would cost us way too much to get things right. Our warranties may get voided, loss of time, dealership hassles, etc... If this is not covered under warranty then Mazda would not provide us with a Rental, where many of us only Have a RX8 to commute with.
The best possible product should have been a quality working product when it was released. At the LOWEST COST???? The first time this happened to sstricker it costed him a lot of time with out his car and a lot of time to get the situation fixed. The BEST possible intake would have been an intake that worked the first time. At Monetary Cost, it would be costing people who can't install intakes themselves a lot of money to go through this. Honestly, the Cost to Benefit for an intake is not there. Intakes cost way too much because the only real benefit is a nice sound. At the price you had the intake, the cost was actually worth the sound, but now, the cost of having problems with my car, going to the dealership, and worrying about my warranty is just too great for just a nice sound.
If you want me to Umnitza, I will do searches on RX8club.com for you, so that you can be well informed about designs, problems, and successes of RX8 intakes.
And to just let you know, it has been known that the Stock Intake is the best solution to some people.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 04-02-2006 at 01:19 AM.
04-02-2006, 03:38 AM
#255
Well I mocked up an intake shield pattern fed by the RB ram inlet using some foam board, though I'm not sure what I'm going to do for an intake now. Umnitza is asking me to wait and try their revised intake, which they say won't ship until Friday. I probably have a bit more patience with this kind of thing than most people and my RX-8 is not a daily driver. Considering it anyways, I like the general concept.
You can also see where I mocked up the Braille racing battery location with a box I cut to the proper dimensions. The shield extends down in front of it to keep the radiator from blasting it with heated air. I'm undecided on whether to block the whole thing in with a top and back piece to try and keep as much of the engine/radiator heat out or (if I stay with the Umnitza intake) use foam to seal the front opening of the box to the shield so it only receives incoming air from the ram inlet. I intend to form the final part from thin aluminum sheet using the pattern you see and then insulate the inside surfaces.
.
You can also see where I mocked up the Braille racing battery location with a box I cut to the proper dimensions. The shield extends down in front of it to keep the radiator from blasting it with heated air. I'm undecided on whether to block the whole thing in with a top and back piece to try and keep as much of the engine/radiator heat out or (if I stay with the Umnitza intake) use foam to seal the front opening of the box to the shield so it only receives incoming air from the ram inlet. I intend to form the final part from thin aluminum sheet using the pattern you see and then insulate the inside surfaces.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 04-02-2006 at 12:35 PM.
04-02-2006, 09:02 AM
#256
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Originally Posted by sstricker
agreed! they had an issue with the last batch and they have now fixed the issue. they gave me a full refund and i was able to purchase the new intake at the discounted price. they have answered EVERY question that i have thrown at them promptly.
RB is a great company, but to say that they are the best is a little far fetched. umnitza may be small and they may order these intakes from japan, but they are still a customer oriented company.
RB is a great company, but to say that they are the best is a little far fetched. umnitza may be small and they may order these intakes from japan, but they are still a customer oriented company.
04-02-2006, 09:08 AM
#257
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Wurm - i agree 100% with that. as you can see from the previous posts, companies that own RX-8's and do THEIR OWN R&D, is most benificial. RB does their homework and their products show this.
04-02-2006, 02:21 PM
#262
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then perhaps their ENGINEERS should state this for fact. do you just unscrew it from the stocker and place it on the aftermarket?
04-02-2006, 02:27 PM
#263
I'm not referring to your intake, I'm speaking in general, the general theory is that the screens keep airflow around the MAF from being excessively turbulent, which could cause erroneous errors, but I don't think the AEM or Blitz intakes use the screen, not 100% sure on that
04-02-2006, 03:51 PM
#265
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perhaps we can just wait for umnitza to chime in. oddly enough....... my car is running OK today. hmmm.... makes me wonder. that's not to say that everything is ok, for i only drove a few miles, but.... we shall see. i really don't wanna test this theory out...... however..... i can look on the intake to see.... i think it is do-able though.
but, like i said, i'd like to see what their engineers think since i, obviously, don't know how to install an intake......
but, like i said, i'd like to see what their engineers think since i, obviously, don't know how to install an intake......
04-02-2006, 04:00 PM
#266
well here may be the solution, page down to posts #12 and #13
https://www.rx8club.com/far-east-asia-38/simota-cf-aero-form-intake-here-68919/
originally he had issues with the VFAD removed, later tested VFAD removed with a custom screen in place and it solved the problem
https://www.rx8club.com/far-east-asia-38/simota-cf-aero-form-intake-here-68919/
originally he had issues with the VFAD removed, later tested VFAD removed with a custom screen in place and it solved the problem
Last edited by TeamRX8; 04-02-2006 at 04:15 PM.
04-02-2006, 04:17 PM
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Wow, great find TeamRX8! Thats what Simota, umnitza, or we need to do. The MAF screen seems pretty important in most cases.
The other thing is the guy who modified his Simota Intake said that removing the VFAD would create potenital problems.
He also replaced his Simota Filter with an Apexi filter, which looks awesome. He also stated that the Apexi filter is doing a better job than the original Simota Filter. Also, if you read ahead towards the end, he SQflyer says he got a gain of .8hp, but it wasn't with all things equal.
The other thing is the guy who modified his Simota Intake said that removing the VFAD would create potenital problems.
He also replaced his Simota Filter with an Apexi filter, which looks awesome. He also stated that the Apexi filter is doing a better job than the original Simota Filter. Also, if you read ahead towards the end, he SQflyer says he got a gain of .8hp, but it wasn't with all things equal.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 04-02-2006 at 04:23 PM.
04-02-2006, 09:48 PM
#270
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i've decided that enough is enough. i don't want to risk further problems or mazda refusing to warranty this mishap. my 8 is running fine, for now, with the stocker back on.... so i'm not going to re-install the simota. i do think that teamrx8 is on the right track with the mesh mod, however, i'm not going to pursue this.
i've had enough problems with my 8 thus far... so i'm going to trade in the next couple of months.
if umnitza will not refund my money, for whatever reason, then i will sell the intake, if anyone is willing to purchase it. but i will wait and see if they will refund first.
i've had enough problems with my 8 thus far... so i'm going to trade in the next couple of months.
if umnitza will not refund my money, for whatever reason, then i will sell the intake, if anyone is willing to purchase it. but i will wait and see if they will refund first.
Last edited by sstricker; 04-02-2006 at 11:46 PM.
04-03-2006, 12:03 AM
#271
Hi Scott,
Based on my conversations with Umnitza you should have no problem getting a refund. Regardless of the situation, they have been very "stand-up" in this regard.
I might like you to ship it to me in TX so I don't have to wait on my order. Assuming you're OK with this I'll ask if they will authorize doing so. I'm dead in the water without one. Maybe this works out best for everybody.
I really regret all the issues you've had with your RX-8. I understand how frustrating that situation can be.
Based on my conversations with Umnitza you should have no problem getting a refund. Regardless of the situation, they have been very "stand-up" in this regard.
I might like you to ship it to me in TX so I don't have to wait on my order. Assuming you're OK with this I'll ask if they will authorize doing so. I'm dead in the water without one. Maybe this works out best for everybody.
I really regret all the issues you've had with your RX-8. I understand how frustrating that situation can be.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 04-03-2006 at 12:09 AM.
04-03-2006, 06:12 PM
#275
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i just got off the phone with umnitza.
i decided, what the hell, and decided to try the mesh mod. as you know the chain of events has been pretty consistant.
1)ORIGINAL Simota intake recieved and installed.
drove approx. 65-75 miles and had rough idle, sputtering , and got a CEL.
2) put the stock intake on and new MAF sensor, to be safe. smooth idle, no sputtering, and no CEL.
3) recieved new Simota intake and installed. I drove approx. 85-90 miles and got rough idle and sputtering.
4) put the stock intake back on. smooth idle and no sputtering and NO CEL...
it seems that there is a buffer zone on my car..... this intake might run perfect on other RX-8's??
i'm now working with umnitza to solve this issue because, quite frankly, i am curious now...
today i decided to go ahead and put the mesh on the simota. i took the mesh out of the stock air box and placed it between the MAF housing and the bell housing on the Simota. i then re-installed the Simota and FOR RIGHT NOW it is running like it should.
i am going to replicate what i have been doing. i will put 100 miles on the car, just to be safe, and see if the symptoms reoccur. if they do not...... then we might be able to safely assume that this is a fix?!
what umnitza would like for me to do is.... put miles on the car with the Simota on. if there are no issues, then they would like me to have another RX-8 test MY intake to make sure that it is not my car. that would mean that i would have to ship it to one of you, unless there is someone near me (SE Missouri area)...... have them put some miles on the intake to give a definative answer.....
i was a little pissed off on sat., as i'm sure you guys noticed. i am calm now, which is why i wanted to try this again. plus my curiosity piqued....
bear with me for a week or so guys.... once we figure out if this is a fix or not, i will post pics of the modification procedure.....
i decided, what the hell, and decided to try the mesh mod. as you know the chain of events has been pretty consistant.
1)ORIGINAL Simota intake recieved and installed.
drove approx. 65-75 miles and had rough idle, sputtering , and got a CEL.
2) put the stock intake on and new MAF sensor, to be safe. smooth idle, no sputtering, and no CEL.
3) recieved new Simota intake and installed. I drove approx. 85-90 miles and got rough idle and sputtering.
4) put the stock intake back on. smooth idle and no sputtering and NO CEL...
it seems that there is a buffer zone on my car..... this intake might run perfect on other RX-8's??
i'm now working with umnitza to solve this issue because, quite frankly, i am curious now...
today i decided to go ahead and put the mesh on the simota. i took the mesh out of the stock air box and placed it between the MAF housing and the bell housing on the Simota. i then re-installed the Simota and FOR RIGHT NOW it is running like it should.
i am going to replicate what i have been doing. i will put 100 miles on the car, just to be safe, and see if the symptoms reoccur. if they do not...... then we might be able to safely assume that this is a fix?!
what umnitza would like for me to do is.... put miles on the car with the Simota on. if there are no issues, then they would like me to have another RX-8 test MY intake to make sure that it is not my car. that would mean that i would have to ship it to one of you, unless there is someone near me (SE Missouri area)...... have them put some miles on the intake to give a definative answer.....
i was a little pissed off on sat., as i'm sure you guys noticed. i am calm now, which is why i wanted to try this again. plus my curiosity piqued....
bear with me for a week or so guys.... once we figure out if this is a fix or not, i will post pics of the modification procedure.....