@RG... Excellent news! I unfortunately can't write ANYTHING in assembly or I'd attempt to code in the e shaft trigger....

A few questions, did you and Brillo figure out the bias resistor values for the stock coolant and Intake air temp sensors so we can calibrate the MSII? (Since the MSII is configured for the GM sensors, or am I being dumb here...)

How do we purchase one of the 36+2 plates? I'm new to the rotary world and don't really know who Paul Yaw is... I assume he's some sort of top end tuner / shop owner...

Where were you guys thinking about hiding the MSII case?

Will you be posting your wiring in detail so the rest of us can order up our harness from RP and modify it?

Also, what WBo2 are you planning on using? Or will the stock one suffice even if it caps out around 12.0

Sorry for all the questions... I'm sooo excited that we'll have full control figured out soon!

This is JUST what the RX-8 (not mine or yours... but the car in inclusive terms) needs. I think sport compact put it nicely... "what this car needs is FI, but the aftermarket will probably screw it up" Now to start looking at turbos :-)

 

You can download a program at msefi.com for free called Easytherm. In it you can change the values for the sensors and send them to MS. It's easy. I have stock Mazda sensors working with Megasquirt on my RX-7.

I have an e-mail sent to Paul Yaw to find out how much he sells the trigger wheels for. I'll pass the info on when I get it. I still ultimately want to find a way to allow the MS to read the strange shape the stock wheel has so hopefully this will only be a temporary setback.

My personal preference to locate the MS is behind the washer fluid reservoir on the passenger side of the engine bay mounted to the firewall. This is a nice hiding place and drilling a hole here for the patch cord would be inconspicuous and out of sight. We need to experiment with this location to see how well the ecu stands up to engine bay heat. I have confidence in it but Alan is a little concerned. I won't tell people to put it somewhere where it will be unreliable.

We are going to build our own wiring harnesses from scratch. We just need to source the parts right now. RP wants WAY too much money and we are cheap bastards. That's why we are using a Megasquirt in the first place! I may at some point in the future post a schematic of exactly how we are doing everything but not until we get it all right. If something gets messed up, it will be here only. I don't want others complaining that they messed their cars up by following our instructions.

The stock wideband will still get accurate readings by looking at it through canscan or scanalyzer. You can use it if you want to. It definitely reads alot lower than 12:1. You don't want to be that low nonturbo anyways. Alan wants to use an aftermarket one connected directly to the MS though. There is a very good reason why. For $200 you can buy a wideband that will plug directly into the MS. With this we will have the ability to tune our maps by a/f ratio rather than numbers that are guessed in. I can program in 14.7:1 at one load point and 13:1 at another and it will shoot for it automatically. That is of course with the proper upgrades but not even a Haltech can do that! No more guessing.

It's tough having to wait for other parts or developments when we just learned (confirmed) alot in one day. We'll get there though. As a side note, I'd like to get this working on the auto cars after we get this setup figured out. It shouldn't be that much different.

 

As a side note, I'd like to get this working on the auto cars after we get this setup figured out. It shouldn't be that much different.[I]

RG
Thank you for remembering the AT cars. This is exciting

 

If you use the MS for ignition, will you then loose the knock sensor control?

 

they arent talking abotu vfad they are talking about s-dais. the port runners in the intake manifold

 

sdais will still work just fine in my opinion... and if they don't work fine... well MS can control them.

Everything sounds fantastic RG... I knew easytherm existed but I hadn't read up on it yet... there's only so many hours in the day.

I'm a little concerned about putting it in the engine bay as well... these boards aren't rated for underhood temperature. One of the upgrades to the UMS was that the boards and components would then be rated at automotive temp range, but the upper limit was still only like 200 degs F.

Is Alan going to do the DIY wideband sensor? or is there a better solution for less pesos?

 

I think I may need Rotarygod insurance coverage if this goes much further

We will try to do a DIY for both the Megasquirt and the Wideband. Since this is my only car, we are working to find a way to test things with the least amount cutting/removal/modification for obvious reasons. This has the side benefit of creating a rather plug and play (prob. poor choice of words there) system.

We "may" try to fire the engine up controling fuel only while we wait on that eccentric wheel from Paul Yaw. Not sure what the computer will do timing wise if it sees AFR's out of its happy zone. even in stock forms the ECU has a habit of really advancing timing in wierd places.

The question is, how much will timing really hurt us? If were talking about the last 5-10WHP, we should be ok for some testing. I'm really looking forward to the economy benefits of the leaner AFR, but I'm not sure if the computer will cancel those out with extreme swings in timing control. Then of course is the general safety issue of not having timing control, which I think is managable.

This is really starting to feel like its me against the man. The man is getting me down. Soon I hope however, the man will be my bitch

 

VFAD should still work just fine. If it doesn't, we'll make it work. Not that big of a deal.

MS has knock sensor control. I honestly didn't plan to use it but may as well since it is only 1 more wire. My personal opinion is that if you have a naturally aspirated car and you are detonating, a knock sensor is a bandaid to bad tuning. I intend to set this up so the car will run best on low (cheaper) octane gas with no issues. That's how a nonturbo rotary should be run. It will just have to be something that gets tuned in and evaluated when we get that far. Forced induction uses will have to be dealt with on an individual basis.

There is a much nicer option than the DIY sensor. It is pretty much a thing of the past as you need to build it. The nicest option is a plug in unit from Innovative Motorsports called the LC-1. It is ready to go for $200. Here's a link to it.

http://www.diyautotune.com/products/WBo2-LC1-LSU4.2.htm

 

I have just learned that I do NOT need MSII in order to get full rotary ignition control. Ms does it just fine. In fact, currently MSII can't do rotary ignition control! I need to look into building the circuit now and integrating it onto my car first. I need to make sure it works good before I try it on an RX-8.

 

Awesome... just freaking awesome!

@Brillo - I completely understand that its your only car... my 8 is my only car as well... Once it comes time to FI I might go buy a $500 dollar beater like an old jeep just to keep me alive for a week or two and then start piecing together a small block v8 for it....

@RG... I was under the impression that MS one CAN'T do spark at all... I thought MSII was the only one... OR is this something like doing the MS plus MSnS mod? How much functionality do we lose by not having the MSII daughterboard? I especially liked the advantage of 12x12 tables instead of 8x8... how big a deal is the tuning resolution there?

Thanks for all your ideas guys... and thank god streetable full ECU control will be coming from Texas :D and not that hippie, pseudo European state...

 

Thanks for all your ideas guys... and thank god streetable full ECU control will be coming from Texas and not that hippie, pseudo European state...

now that is the Quote of the day. keep it coming.

hook um horns. relocated

beers

 

 

University of Texas at Austin Class of '04 Biology BA

Hook'em

 

MS has always been able to do spark in some form or fashion. You need to use the Megatune software rather than the standard configurator software that is on the main Megasquirt page. Literally just download it and send a file to the ecu and you've got it. Megatune automatically gets the 12X12 maps. I don't see losing any functionality over MSII other than not having a couple of more outputs. We can get by without all the exta ones right now anyways so I don't see any reason why we need the MSII upgrade. As this sytem gets figured out, I may want to add other features and the extra outputs of MSII will make that possible.

brillo graduated from UT also.

 

RG... I'm pretty sure the stock MS doesn't have 12x12 maps... I've been playing around with the latest MegaTune and there's no 12x12 nor is there an ignition table when Megatune is put into MSone mode... we also lose the easytherm, we also lose the dual table among other things.

in other words... unless I'm using some really wrong software... (Megatune 2.25 beta) I think we need to research which exact version of MS we're going to use.

 

84 austin, before the bust. cant wait to go visit.

btw, is pearl lite still around????


beers

 

I already have Megasquirt working on my RX-7. It definitely does have 12X12 maps and full ignition control.

 

Sorry RG... I'm not trying to tell you that its not there... According to their website though it seems like you need to use an add on card beyond the plain old MS....

 

I'm pretty sure you have to add ignition control. Then you get MegaSquirt'n'Spark. I haven't messed around with it, but I researched it when I was in the market for a '71 efi Volvo.

 

Yes... I've confirmed this... you DO have to add ignition control on to MSone... BUT you get practically every capability of MSII by going with the Meqasquirt and Spark software inlcuding the AFR target tuning abilities...

 

Took this from MSnS at this link http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/select.html

EDIS mode
Controls Ford EDIS ignition module for wasted spark distributorless ignition
Can be installed on most even fire 4,6,8 cylinder 4 stroke automotive engines
Requires a 36-1 trigger disc mounted on the crank, many Fords from 1990 onwards already have the trigger disc or teeth cut into the flywheel. Suitable discs are available new and used.
Has been installed on a few rotaries.
EDIS has a quoted upper limit of 9000rpm, but in practice some have seen 9300 or 10500rpm
The EDIS install offers a DIY ignition solution on engines that are distributorless from the factory.
Click here to see requirementshttp://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/ex...atyouneed.html

Looks like we need 36+1 and not 36+2 wheel...

 

EDIS is a Ford ignition system. A few people have adapted that system to rotaries. The info page hasn't been updated in a while so you won't neccesarily see all of the new advancements. MS now has the ability to control the RX-7 crank trigger and do both leading and trailing with dedicated 6X6 split tables. It can read many different crank trigger variations but can not yet read the wheel pattern of the RX-8. It is compatible with the pickup sensor which is why a simple crank trigger wheel change would make it work just fine. As I said previously, this simple wheel change is nothing more involved than changing the main pulley or more accurately the trigger wheel that mounts behind the pulley using the same 4 bolts. Megatune has all of the software neccessary to run full rotary ignition control. This was available on the newest 2.25b5.14 update. It is MSnS-Extra software. Megasquirt is all the same ecu. You just use different software settings to do the job you want. This update has all of the neccessary files. There is a circuit that needs to be custom built and added to the board to actually integrate the rotary ignition in but this is fairly straight forward. I have the schematic and parts list. I just need to order the parts. The software is loaded so I can already play with settings.

As far as the trigger wheel goes, in Megatune, you can specify the initial number of teeth such as 6,12,24,36,etc... as well as how many teeth it has missing such as 1,2,3,4,etc... Because of the ability to do it this way, it doesn't matter if we have a 36-1 or 36-2 wheel. I just tell it what it is. The RX-7 wheel is a 12-1. Actually it has a 24-1 but turns at half the engine speed.

 

THanks for clearing that up RG... I think I'm going to go order up a MegaSquirt since we don't have to worry about MSII then... I always wanted to learn how to solder on PCB... Is there another trigger wheel that we can source from an older vehicle? I'm a little concerned about the potential cost of the Paul Yaw wheel...

I'm sorry about all the contradictions with the ignition control... I didn't realize that MSnS was just different firmware and that the MSone only needs to be modified under special circumstances. I still haven't figured out why you would need a MSII when the MSnS extra code works on the original MS...

I stand corrected :o

Any leads on where to purchase the plastic connectors for the harness?

 

Yeah but they only want to sell them by the thousand!

 

Well if you can give me the part #'s and the contact info... I'll contact them as a business and not as an individual... they'll most likely sell me lots of 50-100, might take some smooth talking... but quantities like that are just market barriers against individuals...

I'm curious... what was the unit price at 1000?