DIY burnt out coil replacement
11-21-2007 | 07:15 AM
#1
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From: Sydney, Australia
DIY burnt out coil replacement
History lesson............
Part # N3H1-18-100
Original design coil that is failing on 03 + 04 cars
Part # N3H1-18-100-A
Updated coil stocked by Mazda Australia Stealerships. Used on all later cars
Offensive price please............ AU$160 ea
Note: Mazda USA price........... US$048 ea
Part # N3H1-18-100-9U
Updated coil available to the Mazda USA dealerships.
Awesome price please........... US$027 ea
Note: Mazda Oz price............ N/A
The "9U" in the part number usually means "Sourced in USA". Where as a "99" usually means "Sourced in Oz". As these coils are sourced in the USA, Mazda USA can bring them to market cheaper than the Mazda Japan sourced coils.
These coils are identical in appearence to the failing ones (as you would expect) & no "burnt out" issues have been reported with them yet but I suspect its too early to tell if they have the same failure rate as the originals. There is a minority of owners reporting CEL or other issues when installing new coils themselves but most of that minority report the proper "RESET" procedure clears it.
Guessing here but I suspect the ECU "learns" the current draw from the original coils & the new coils draw a significant difference thus exceeding a pre-programmed set point & logging it as a fault. The internal resistance of the failing coils would obviously be different to the new coils to cause this. So depending on how bad the originals where creates the "difference" & whether the ECU logs a CEL.
http://rotaryinsider.com/userpix/2_P1000343_1.jpg
http://rotaryinsider.com/userpix/2_P1000338_1.jpg
Am sure nobody here wants to pay the ridiculous Mazda Oz Stealership prices. Go online to purchase any RX-8 part including coils.
Click on the link here. >>> http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214264 <<<
Once you have your coils you can replace them yourselves or get some mates around, worse still you can get your Stealership service dept. to replace them with your customer supplied "Genuine Mazda" coils & save yourself near $500 on the bill.
REgards
Part # N3H1-18-100
Original design coil that is failing on 03 + 04 cars
Part # N3H1-18-100-A
Updated coil stocked by Mazda Australia Stealerships. Used on all later cars
Offensive price please............ AU$160 ea
Note: Mazda USA price........... US$048 ea
Part # N3H1-18-100-9U
Updated coil available to the Mazda USA dealerships.
Awesome price please........... US$027 ea
Note: Mazda Oz price............ N/A
The "9U" in the part number usually means "Sourced in USA". Where as a "99" usually means "Sourced in Oz". As these coils are sourced in the USA, Mazda USA can bring them to market cheaper than the Mazda Japan sourced coils.
These coils are identical in appearence to the failing ones (as you would expect) & no "burnt out" issues have been reported with them yet but I suspect its too early to tell if they have the same failure rate as the originals. There is a minority of owners reporting CEL or other issues when installing new coils themselves but most of that minority report the proper "RESET" procedure clears it.
Guessing here but I suspect the ECU "learns" the current draw from the original coils & the new coils draw a significant difference thus exceeding a pre-programmed set point & logging it as a fault. The internal resistance of the failing coils would obviously be different to the new coils to cause this. So depending on how bad the originals where creates the "difference" & whether the ECU logs a CEL.
http://rotaryinsider.com/userpix/2_P1000343_1.jpg
http://rotaryinsider.com/userpix/2_P1000338_1.jpg
Am sure nobody here wants to pay the ridiculous Mazda Oz Stealership prices. Go online to purchase any RX-8 part including coils.
Click on the link here. >>> http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214264 <<<
Once you have your coils you can replace them yourselves or get some mates around, worse still you can get your Stealership service dept. to replace them with your customer supplied "Genuine Mazda" coils & save yourself near $500 on the bill.
REgards
Last edited by DMRH; 12-14-2007 at 03:58 PM.
11-21-2007 | 07:21 AM
#2
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From: Sydney, Australia
RE-post from another thread but relevant here too..........
I checked the coils in my 03-model today. A picture speak the thousand words in this case but needless to say I am now going to order a set from Online Mazda parts as suggested by "erx8" & bypass Mazda Australia's ripp off pricing.
Note:....... 1 coil appears better than the other 3, thats because l wiped it prior to taking the pics. (doh!)
The end pic shows my "short-term" solution until I can source new coils. May even make up a rubber mat under them to reduce the risk again in the future by reducing the "Negative potential". Can tell you all that the factory intake piping will be used (via another source once the Odula intake is purchased) to duct cool air over the coils for the sake of reliability.
The pitting on all 4 coils makes for an easy explanation of the slight mis-firing at idle. For reference. There is just 53k km on the clock.
REgards
I checked the coils in my 03-model today. A picture speak the thousand words in this case but needless to say I am now going to order a set from Online Mazda parts as suggested by "erx8" & bypass Mazda Australia's ripp off pricing.
Note:....... 1 coil appears better than the other 3, thats because l wiped it prior to taking the pics. (doh!)
The end pic shows my "short-term" solution until I can source new coils. May even make up a rubber mat under them to reduce the risk again in the future by reducing the "Negative potential". Can tell you all that the factory intake piping will be used (via another source once the Odula intake is purchased) to duct cool air over the coils for the sake of reliability.
The pitting on all 4 coils makes for an easy explanation of the slight mis-firing at idle. For reference. There is just 53k km on the clock.
REgards
Last edited by DMRH; 12-14-2007 at 04:01 PM.
11-21-2007 | 07:42 AM
#3
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From: Sydney, Australia
HOW TO care of "Chamberlin".
Somebody had asked for me to make a guide for the replacement of the factory coils, since there has been an upgraded part made by Mazda to improve performace under high heat conditions. I got my coils brand new off of eBaY, for $20 each shipped, but that was a rock bottom price from what I've seen. Always replace all 4 at once unless you have no option. The new part number is N3H1-18-100A-9U.
This is a really simple change out, just some obvious observations and hints....
I don't really think there is much risk for shock here, but I would err on the safe side and pull the negative battery terminal....always good to do a PCM reset anyways...
Next, if you haven't already mastered the removal of the airbox, wrestle that bitch out of there after loostening the two clamps that hold on the flexible charge tube.
Unhook all those vaccum lines etc... just get that intake crap out of the way. You don't have to remove the strut tower brace, but you can if you really want the open space to work in.
Notice the 4 coil packs mounted to their own zinc plated bracket on the front driver's side of the engine block. Each coil has its own ignition harness connection and of course its own spark plug wire.
Grab a permenant marker, and simply label each connector and each plug wire 1-4 left to right etc... now just yank all the connector plugs (squeeze and pull kind)
and carefully twist off each spark plug wire.... be careful because the actual coil has a press fit extender housing with a spring loaded contact in it...sometimes it will want to come off with the plug wire - it's not the end of the world if it does, just letting you know these pieces can seperate.
Now that all the wires are pulled, simply take your 10mm socket and unbolt each coil and yank em. The coils are the same for trailing and leading, so just plop on and bolt down your 4 new coils as you unbox them. Re-attach all wires that you have labeled 1-4, and re-install your air intake system. Re-connect battery and perform any needed PCM actions for proper reset (search threads for more info). Inspect your old coils...some see bubbling on the bottom, most people see the white spots that look like hard water spots (normal from what I have been told, the bubbling or worse is probably not normal).
The hardest part of this for a first timer is the airbox... you will feel better knowing it is easy once you figure out how to pull the box and put it back in.
-C
This is a really simple change out, just some obvious observations and hints....
I don't really think there is much risk for shock here, but I would err on the safe side and pull the negative battery terminal....always good to do a PCM reset anyways...
Next, if you haven't already mastered the removal of the airbox, wrestle that bitch out of there after loostening the two clamps that hold on the flexible charge tube.
Unhook all those vaccum lines etc... just get that intake crap out of the way. You don't have to remove the strut tower brace, but you can if you really want the open space to work in.
Notice the 4 coil packs mounted to their own zinc plated bracket on the front driver's side of the engine block. Each coil has its own ignition harness connection and of course its own spark plug wire.
Grab a permenant marker, and simply label each connector and each plug wire 1-4 left to right etc... now just yank all the connector plugs (squeeze and pull kind)
and carefully twist off each spark plug wire.... be careful because the actual coil has a press fit extender housing with a spring loaded contact in it...sometimes it will want to come off with the plug wire - it's not the end of the world if it does, just letting you know these pieces can seperate.
Now that all the wires are pulled, simply take your 10mm socket and unbolt each coil and yank em. The coils are the same for trailing and leading, so just plop on and bolt down your 4 new coils as you unbox them. Re-attach all wires that you have labeled 1-4, and re-install your air intake system. Re-connect battery and perform any needed PCM actions for proper reset (search threads for more info). Inspect your old coils...some see bubbling on the bottom, most people see the white spots that look like hard water spots (normal from what I have been told, the bubbling or worse is probably not normal).
The hardest part of this for a first timer is the airbox... you will feel better knowing it is easy once you figure out how to pull the box and put it back in.
-C
REgards
11-21-2007 | 02:05 PM
#4
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Sydney, Australia
I'm STILL waiting for a diagnosis from Artarmon but on the hunch that it's the coils, I've got some being delivered from the US as we speak.
If someone feels confident about following these DIY instructions and wants to educate some others (I'm severely mechanically challenged), and if I get the diagnosis I expect, I'm happy to volunteer my car as the subject of a group DIY session at some convenient location.
If others are interested (and many should be, because this may happen to you), let me know and we'll set something up. Obviously, I need someone to volunteer to play surgeon first.
If someone feels confident about following these DIY instructions and wants to educate some others (I'm severely mechanically challenged), and if I get the diagnosis I expect, I'm happy to volunteer my car as the subject of a group DIY session at some convenient location.
If others are interested (and many should be, because this may happen to you), let me know and we'll set something up. Obviously, I need someone to volunteer to play surgeon first.
11-21-2007 | 04:11 PM
#5
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 325
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From: Sydney
I'm STILL waiting for a diagnosis from Artarmon but on the hunch that it's the coils, I've got some being delivered from the US as we speak.
If someone feels confident about following these DIY instructions and wants to educate some others (I'm severely mechanically challenged), and if I get the diagnosis I expect, I'm happy to volunteer my car as the subject of a group DIY session at some convenient location.
If others are interested (and many should be, because this may happen to you), let me know and we'll set something up. Obviously, I need someone to volunteer to play surgeon first.
If someone feels confident about following these DIY instructions and wants to educate some others (I'm severely mechanically challenged), and if I get the diagnosis I expect, I'm happy to volunteer my car as the subject of a group DIY session at some convenient location.
If others are interested (and many should be, because this may happen to you), let me know and we'll set something up. Obviously, I need someone to volunteer to play surgeon first.
It truely is an easy job to do.
I think the hardest part was to get the air box out of the way.
I'm also changing my plug wires (RacingBeat) and Spark Plugs (Denso Iridium Racing).
I pulled my plugs and found that the one attached to the completely dead coil was totally fouled.
Also I've read numerous times that if you change your coils, plug leads n plugs should be done at the same time..
..
11-22-2007 | 01:04 AM
#7
Shootin' from the hip
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,584
Likes: 0
From: Sydney, Australia
David,
It truely is an easy job to do.
I think the hardest part was to get the air box out of the way.
I'm also changing my plug wires (RacingBeat) and Spark Plugs (Denso Iridium Racing).
I pulled my plugs and found that the one attached to the completely dead coil was totally fouled.
Also I've read numerous times that if you change your coils, plug leads n plugs should be done at the same time..
..
It truely is an easy job to do.
I think the hardest part was to get the air box out of the way.
I'm also changing my plug wires (RacingBeat) and Spark Plugs (Denso Iridium Racing).
I pulled my plugs and found that the one attached to the completely dead coil was totally fouled.
Also I've read numerous times that if you change your coils, plug leads n plugs should be done at the same time..
..
It's now academic anyways for reasons I'm about to post in my thread.
11-26-2007 | 01:34 AM
#8
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Dont usually post as I prefer to side on the side & read. Just wanted to say thanks for the link. Was quite offended at the asking price of the local dealership (Max Kirwin) Walked out without buying wondering if I could source them from a wreckers like All-Maz.
Did my coils on the weekend after purchasing a set through online mazda parts and the difference is quite noticable after installation
My coils looked almost as bad as the ones above.
Cheers
Did my coils on the weekend after purchasing a set through online mazda parts and the difference is quite noticable after installation
My coils looked almost as bad as the ones above.
Cheers
Last edited by ZAP-13B; 11-26-2007 at 01:39 AM.
12-02-2007 | 05:29 AM
#9
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From: Sydney, Australia
Update.............
New coils arrived last week but this weekend was the first chance to fit them. Was interesting to see the Japanese made "100-A" sticker under the "100-9U". Then found the coils themselves are embossed as the "100-A" part.
So, it seems there may not be a difference between the "100-A" + "100-9U" coils after all. Perhaps they are simply RE-sold by the dealer whom has done some amazing bulk deal from Mazda Japan & wants to clear stock................ (just guessing here.......
)
Either way, I still saved $500 or 78% over the Mazda Australia Stealership price........
REgards
New coils arrived last week but this weekend was the first chance to fit them. Was interesting to see the Japanese made "100-A" sticker under the "100-9U". Then found the coils themselves are embossed as the "100-A" part.
So, it seems there may not be a difference between the "100-A" + "100-9U" coils after all. Perhaps they are simply RE-sold by the dealer whom has done some amazing bulk deal from Mazda Japan & wants to clear stock................ (just guessing here.......
)Either way, I still saved $500 or 78% over the Mazda Australia Stealership price........
REgards
Last edited by DMRH; 12-14-2007 at 04:02 PM.
12-03-2007 | 04:59 AM
#11
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From: Sydney, Australia
They will come...............
REgarding the installation of the coils. Purchased some (suitable?) heatsinks & heat transfer compound from my local Jaycar store for the grand total of $20. The reason for the heat transfer compound is for the heat generated from the coils to be transfered out & onto another surface for dissapation. Without it, you have an air gap that will result in higher temps for each coil.
Due to the restricted locations of each coil, if was impossible to get the full dose of heatsink fins into each coil. So this was a compromise due to maintaining the original design. The whole design is a production compromise (thats now biting Mazda in the bum) so its hard to get it it right in this instance.
View of coils mounted shows just how tight it is between each one. Gettting air across the inside ones will be difficult but the next stage should cover that. Worth noting is the fact that the aluminium heat sink fins will dissapate the heat rapidly. I know they dont appear to be large enough but something is better than nothing + it was the best available heatsink from the choice on the shelves.
Mounted in place, they dont detract from the factory design but at least they are there catching whatever air is floating around. Additional coil input plugs are for the HKS DL-II amplifier.
After test driving for 40+ minutes or a 50km run on motorways & streets. I pulled back in impressed with the return of that lost power (new coils) then popped the bonnet & felt the heat sinks.................
Very impressed, they were bearly warm to the touch & touching the actual coils didn't nearly burn my fingers like last time. I'll borrow a heat probe IR gun from a mate & get accurate temps next time.
REgards
REgarding the installation of the coils. Purchased some (suitable?) heatsinks & heat transfer compound from my local Jaycar store for the grand total of $20. The reason for the heat transfer compound is for the heat generated from the coils to be transfered out & onto another surface for dissapation. Without it, you have an air gap that will result in higher temps for each coil.
Due to the restricted locations of each coil, if was impossible to get the full dose of heatsink fins into each coil. So this was a compromise due to maintaining the original design. The whole design is a production compromise (thats now biting Mazda in the bum) so its hard to get it it right in this instance.
View of coils mounted shows just how tight it is between each one. Gettting air across the inside ones will be difficult but the next stage should cover that. Worth noting is the fact that the aluminium heat sink fins will dissapate the heat rapidly. I know they dont appear to be large enough but something is better than nothing + it was the best available heatsink from the choice on the shelves.
Mounted in place, they dont detract from the factory design but at least they are there catching whatever air is floating around. Additional coil input plugs are for the HKS DL-II amplifier.
After test driving for 40+ minutes or a 50km run on motorways & streets. I pulled back in impressed with the return of that lost power (new coils) then popped the bonnet & felt the heat sinks.................
Very impressed, they were bearly warm to the touch & touching the actual coils didn't nearly burn my fingers like last time. I'll borrow a heat probe IR gun from a mate & get accurate temps next time.
REgards
Last edited by DMRH; 12-14-2007 at 04:04 PM.
12-04-2007 | 01:46 AM
#13
Hmmmmmm.........
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne, Australia
Yes you are right, i am impatient as they turned up today...And I am kicking myself for not ordering plugs as well.
I like the heatsink ! I have a track day on Monday which I am trying to get a surface mount temperature reader from jaycar so I can get an idea of daily driving temps and on track temps. I think I will do what you have done and do the temp comparison on the street only...dont want to expose a new set of coils to undu temps if I dont have to.
I like the heatsink ! I have a track day on Monday which I am trying to get a surface mount temperature reader from jaycar so I can get an idea of daily driving temps and on track temps. I think I will do what you have done and do the temp comparison on the street only...dont want to expose a new set of coils to undu temps if I dont have to.
12-04-2007 | 03:29 AM
#14
Hmmmmmm.........
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne, Australia
btw, I found this http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/pric...Ignition/Coils
12-04-2007 | 10:28 PM
#15
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4
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From: Brisbane, Australia
i havent read this whole thread, it upset me too much....
for owners living in brisbane - dont go to Oldmac Mazda - Cleveland
I *sniff sniff* just had a coil replaced (only one) *sniff sniff* the day after my service (when they didnt pick up it was dead) *sniff* and it cos me about $500 FOR THE PART *sniff sniff*
STUPID DEALERS. rest assured, i have found a new mazda man that is going to look after my baby.
SJ
for owners living in brisbane - dont go to Oldmac Mazda - Cleveland
I *sniff sniff* just had a coil replaced (only one) *sniff sniff* the day after my service (when they didnt pick up it was dead) *sniff* and it cos me about $500 FOR THE PART *sniff sniff*
STUPID DEALERS. rest assured, i have found a new mazda man that is going to look after my baby.
SJ
12-05-2007 | 12:28 AM
#16
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 58
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Just replaced my 4 coils today. L1 coil was severely pitted and and T2 coil was also pitted but to a lesser extent. The other 2 coils had no pitting whatsoever.
Took car for a drive and could feel immediately a marked improvement in responsiveness , torque and much stronger pull to redline, which remained even after extensive driving for about 3/4 hr in 32 degrees celcius.
For ages, I have been experiencing power loss which would develop only after I had been driving the car for approx 20 minutes . Up intil then, the car would feel OK. This power loss was especially noticable from about 6000rpm to redline. The car just would really struggle.
Replacing the coils has completely solved this mystery. I had previously replaced plugs and then leads with no change. Mazda couldnt identify the problem either (I had it to them on numerous occasions).
I would speculate that once the car was getting hot ,the coils would then start to also overheat and it would be from that moment on that the car would really lack power. Also, the idle would also start to get really erratic whereas when the engine was relatively cool (ie during the first 20 minutes) the idle would be much smoother , though not as smooth as it is now following the coil replacement.
I would strongly suggest that those who experience this type of power loss when the car has been running for a while , to check the condition of their coils and replace them.
As a matter of interest, my Rx8 is a 11/03 model which was running the original ,pre-updated coils and the replacement coils where purchased through onlinemazdaparts.com for a grand total of about $125 AU.
Regards
Rexi
Took car for a drive and could feel immediately a marked improvement in responsiveness , torque and much stronger pull to redline, which remained even after extensive driving for about 3/4 hr in 32 degrees celcius.
For ages, I have been experiencing power loss which would develop only after I had been driving the car for approx 20 minutes . Up intil then, the car would feel OK. This power loss was especially noticable from about 6000rpm to redline. The car just would really struggle.
Replacing the coils has completely solved this mystery. I had previously replaced plugs and then leads with no change. Mazda couldnt identify the problem either (I had it to them on numerous occasions).
I would speculate that once the car was getting hot ,the coils would then start to also overheat and it would be from that moment on that the car would really lack power. Also, the idle would also start to get really erratic whereas when the engine was relatively cool (ie during the first 20 minutes) the idle would be much smoother , though not as smooth as it is now following the coil replacement.
I would strongly suggest that those who experience this type of power loss when the car has been running for a while , to check the condition of their coils and replace them.
As a matter of interest, my Rx8 is a 11/03 model which was running the original ,pre-updated coils and the replacement coils where purchased through onlinemazdaparts.com for a grand total of about $125 AU.
Regards
Rexi
12-05-2007 | 12:43 AM
#17
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
i havent read this whole thread, it upset me too much....
for owners living in brisbane - dont go to Oldmac Mazda - Cleveland
I *sniff sniff* just had a coil replaced (only one) *sniff sniff* the day after my service (when they didnt pick up it was dead) *sniff* and it cos me about $500 FOR THE PART *sniff sniff*
STUPID DEALERS. rest assured, i have found a new mazda man that is going to look after my baby.
SJ
for owners living in brisbane - dont go to Oldmac Mazda - Cleveland
I *sniff sniff* just had a coil replaced (only one) *sniff sniff* the day after my service (when they didnt pick up it was dead) *sniff* and it cos me about $500 FOR THE PART *sniff sniff*
STUPID DEALERS. rest assured, i have found a new mazda man that is going to look after my baby.
SJ
makes me feel all my whinging has been worthwhile
12-05-2007 | 04:42 AM
#18
Hmmmmmm.........
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne, Australia
Cheers
Andrew
12-05-2007 | 05:38 AM
#19
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
The coils I removed from the car were the original 100 coils.(Is stamped on the coil) The 100A coils that I received and have now fitted are an updated coil redesigned apparently to better handle heat , and thus prevent failures.
Regards
Rexi
Regards
Rexi
12-05-2007 | 03:48 PM
#20
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
My car is running better now than for the last 3 years , as mentioned by others the power is better and smooth strong acceleration all the way through to Redline , i pity the poor owners who have no knowledge as to whats causing their cars to run like **** and rely on Mazda Stearlerships to correct it for them
Cheers
Michael
12-06-2007 | 12:06 AM
#21
Hmmmmmm.........
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne, Australia
Yeah sorry, I made the assumption that the 100A were the original part. Mine already had the 100A, so I am with erx8 I think think this is going to be a Religious Christmas ritual for me.
12-09-2007 | 04:44 PM
#24
Registered
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 213
Likes: 1
From: KY, TN border
I'm a computer tech and the best thermal compound is Artic Silver 5.
You can always get them cheap from Newegg.com
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCateg...ompound-Grease
Looking at the bronze back-plate for the coils, I can tell that chipset cooler heatsink for computers can be attached to the back of that plate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835108071
You can always get them cheap from Newegg.com
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCateg...ompound-Grease
Looking at the bronze back-plate for the coils, I can tell that chipset cooler heatsink for computers can be attached to the back of that plate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835108071
Last edited by Soravia; 12-09-2007 at 04:51 PM.
12-10-2007 | 02:45 AM
#25
Hmmmmmm.........
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne, Australia
Well I put my new coils in over the weekend. Initial change was noticable...not massive but definately a change. Had a track day today and sorry to say that I think they are knackered again