Knet

Did the can sniffing earlier today. They already did 2 others this week and mine was the same result. Same code where the ABS is operating on all the cars with the ABS issue. New firmware will be coming after the holidays.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Yea~! Thanks for being patient and contributing for the benefit of others.

Knet

Small update: recieved a beta firmware this week to test and it works. No more abs and tsc lights.

slash128

Good to hear, glad you got it sorted.

slash128

I know this was a ways back but I was wondering if the SSV base map setting of opening at 4400 RPM is due to no hysteresis option? Or maybe I missed the setting? Having it open closer the the stock range (mid 3000's) seems to result in jerky drivability with no hysteresis, if you happen to hover at the opening RPM.

yomomspimp06

are you adaptronic now?

slash128

Evaluating...

slash128

After much research and talking to people I decided to give this another shot. My initial experience last year was with the V2 ECU hardware and Adaptronic wideband module. I had a number of issues with that setup. Based on the research I have done and the people I have talked to the common thing I found was that they were running V1 ECU hardware and non-Adaptronic wideband controllers, like Innovate. I am not saying people have not had success with the V2 hardware or the Adaptronic wideband controller, I just didn't have any references. Also, I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the V2 hardware or the Adaptronic wideband controller, but Shawn already stated that he thinks there are differences in cars that prevented the OEM wideband from working in my car with the V2 ECU, so perhaps there are difference that caused the other issues I experienced. Both the ECUs I tried last year were V2, so maybe there was some combination of things between the V2 hardware and my car. I don't know, this is simply the data and expericne I have to work with.

Awhile back I had an opportunity to pick up a used V1 ECU for a decent price and based on the data I collected I also went with an Innovate LC-2 wideband kit. I knew going in that the OEM wideband is not supported on the V1 hardware. I have been running this setup for awhile now and it has been running great so far. Previously with the V2 ECU and Adaptronic wideband module the AFR readings were 1.0 - 1.5 AFR leaner than what was showing on the ProSport and OEM wideband. I am not saying the ProSport or OEM wideband are accurate, but they do match each other pretty closely (0.1 - 0.3 AFR) so the delta with the Adaptronic module was concerning to me. With this V1 ECU and Innovate LC-2 module the delta between the ProSport and LC-2 is only 0.3 - 0.5 AFR, amuch smaller delta. With the V2 ECU I also experienced an issue where the throttle stayed open after taking my foot off the gas during WOT, another issue where the thermofans stayed on for several hours after I parked and they drained the battery, the immobilizer feature would lose the key code randomly at times and the tach would often bounce around while driving. Those types of quirks made me uncomfortable. So far I haven't had any quirks with this V1 unit. I haven't gotten around to testing the immobilizer feature on this V1 unit yet but that's a lower priority for me at this point. Maybe there are gremlins in my car that the V2 didn't get along with, I dunno, but things are working great with the current setup and wanted to share the current good with the previous bad.

slash128

Well the oddities cropped up again today. Things had been fine. Went for a quick drive to the store today and noticed the coolant temp rising and rising. Ambient temp was in the 50’s but by the time I got back in the garage the coolant temp was 210F and rising. Popped the hood and the thermofans weren’t running. Shut the car off and checked the fan fuse and relays, all seemed good. Hooked up the laptop and Eugene showed the fan status as ON but they weren’t running. Put the factory ECU in, started the car and the fans kicked on and temp dropped down to normal. Put the Adaptronic back in and the fans worked again...

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Not good !

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

perhaps one of the connectors at the Adaptronic ecu wasn’t fully seated and then during the swapping it’s corrected? No way for me to know, but it could explain the situation.


I somehow missed your post above that you installed a V1 modular though. Have you had a chance to dyno etc. with it yet?

.

slash128

yeah, wish I could get to the root of it. I like the control I get with it and I’m still running it. Just makes me nervous.

slash128

I considered the connections prior to swapping around. I checked all 5 and they were all snapped in but no luck turning on the fans. This was with Eugene connected and showing thermofan state was ON. Maybe removing power completely between ECU swaps was what corrected it. I’m not opposed to accepting it’s something with my car but all I can say with confidence is I don’t have any weirdness with the factory ECU. As I replied to Brettus I’m still running the Adaptronic, just wish I could get these ghosts out of the machine.

Also, no, I have not dyno’ed it yet.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

How well does it run in closed loop cruise/light throttle situations ?

slash128

It has been good for me. I was daily driving it to the office prior to the COVID lockdown and general driveability had been great. Honestly overall I prefer it to the factory ECU. It’s just been these weird glitchy things that has me nervous. If I wasn’t boosted I would probably shrug it off but a boosted Renesis is a fragile thing. Fortunately I haven’t had any weird issues in boost yet, knock on wood.

One thing I’ll add to this is that I wish the SSV had a hysteresis setting. If you happen to hover the throttle at the SSV open RPM setting it will cycle between open/close and cause draw car to jerk forward and back. If anyone has suggestions I’m all ears.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Find something solid the same diameter as the inside of the hose and drill a 1mm hole in it ...put that inline with the ssv . Might fix it if you can slow it down enough.

slash128

I follow you and that sounds like a possible physical fix. Was hoping for a software fix But I might give that a try. I have lowered the open RPM below cruise and that resolves it but at the expense of low end performance.

As an aside, there is a time delay setting for the SSV open that I played with, which I hoped would help, but in practice it didn’t pan out. Seems similar to the physical delay introduced by a smaller actuator vacuum path?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

well maybe you should inquire about that with Adaptronic. It should be dictated by both load and rpm, or at least it was on the factory pcm, rather than just rpm only. I can’t say for sure on the Eugene software. They may have hysteresis built in and not adjustable; again I’m not sure, but inquiring about it may clarify the situation and possibly reveal that to be the culprit, or not.

BigBadChris

iTrader: (4)

Dont mean to derail the thread but I have had a very similar issue that I could never get solved. I think my tuner lowered the SSV RPM, the issue happens to me in second gear between 2500 and 3500 rpm. Car lurches back and forth, its very annoying. What made you think it was the SSV?

slash128

For me I am sure it is the SSV because I monitored it opening and closing in Eugene while the lurching happened at the same RPM the SSV was set to open. I have lowered it below typical cruise RPM to get rid of it. The switched inlet parameters are the same for all. Here's the settings page from their RX8 basemap. There is an Open/Close Time parameter but I played with that and it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe I was doing it wrong but I don't think time-based delay is the answer. Cobb has an RPM-based hysteresis setting which I believe keeps the lurching from happening.

PS: Team, this is what I was referring to in my post awhile back where you noticed the 4400 RPM opening in the basemap. I wonder if they set it high to avoid this issue.

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-eng...8/#post4911217



Cobb setting includes hysteresis:

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

well I suppose I’m not sure what rpm you need for cruising? I’d normally set it around 4000 rpm for NA, but I think factory was a bit lower. Which for turbo I’m not sure that opening it a bit later should result in any issue. I imagine you’re blowing through the low-mid 4000 rpm range pretty quick in most gears.

though it looks to me they have everything covered for settings, including hysteresis. Or is that off the Cobb screen?

I probably need to dig into verifying what may be the best settings for each input. Did you

I still don’t have mine up yet. Just received the rebuilt engine back today.

.

slash128

That's the hysteresis setting from the Cobb. Eugene doesn't seem to have one. Once you get yours up and running I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on how the SSV behaves. I tried their basemap setting of 4400 RPM but logs show it choking out under boost. Need it to open sooner to breathe.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Ok, thanks for the verification. Let me look into it further.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

So one of the issues is those intake trigger settings are not fully defined in writing that I can see.

So I'm sort of confident what the Low RPM/Load settings are, but you may need to experiment with the High RPM/Load settings to see what's going on with them.

First, the OE system: I see different values posted for SSV, but best I can tell it's both load and rpm based, with a hysteresis control. I'm not so sure the hysteresis control is your issue. Some are stating SSV opens around 3800 rpm, but I have MoTeC tuning for Renesis PFM cars and it's stating the SSV should open at 4400 - 4500 if the load is high enough and then 5,500 and above it opens no matter what the load is. The PFM is a lightweight open-wheel race car though so it may reflect more their application.

Here's one suggestion for the SSV control; establish what the MAP load is for cruising and then adjust the Low Load setting to be above this. If I'm interpreting it correctly, with that low load setting on "0" once you hit the low rpm setting it's going to trigger no matter what the load is because if the engine is even running the load is greater than literally full vacuum (-29.4 Hg). That seems to be what you're describing. So you can try that, maybe set the Low RPM Setting down to 3800 and then set the Low Load setting fairly high and see what happens when cruising in that range. If the SSV doesn't open that will give you some feel for where to begin making some adjustments.

What I'm not sure of are the High settings. These may determine another point where, when either the High RPM or High Load condition is met, the SSV opens no matter what the other condition is. That's something you may need to test out.

I did find a Hysteresis setting under the Tuning - Air / VVT General tab, but am unsure if it applies to all intake events or just VVT. Because I'm not sure why VVT is listed if it doesn't apply to the RX8 application. These are questions that likely have to addressed directly with the Support team.

Hopefully some of this makes sense.

.

slash128

Appreciate you investigating Team. I've experimented quite a bit with this and tried what you described, setting the open load a little higher than normal cruise load. In practice this works ok when traffic is flowing consistently but as traffic speeds up and slows down there are times when it winds up right in that region of the right load and RPM. You might just have to experience it once you have yours running. Maybe it is not a big deal for a track car and I am expecting too much for a daily driver. I'm not really hung up on it at this point, just would be nice to know if there is a way to address it in software.

Regarding the Motec recommendation of opening at 4400, is that an NA or FI application? Maybe its ok for an NA car but if I do a full RPM WOT pull and don't open the SSV before 4K RPM it starts choking on airflow. I haven't come across other boosted Renesis owners with Adaptronic that I could ask.

I do think an RPM based hysteresis setting would resolve the issue. I've monitored the SSV output while testing and if I try keep the throttle at the open RPM I see the SSV open and close rapidly and the car jerks back and forth. If the open RPM is 3800 and current RPM is 3800 it will open and if it drops 1 RPM to 3799 it will close. Seems Cobb had the hysteresis setting in there for a reason. It's less of an issue for APV or VDI because those are typically more transient ranges.

I saw the hysteresis setting under VVT as well but have not played with that because, well, like you mentioned we don't have VVT But to confirm one way or the other I'll test it when I get a chance. It would be interesting if that one hysteresis setting applied to all valves globally.