Ap Logs dont look right
07-24-2011, 11:43 AM
#26
Essentially you're doing it wrong
1. Follow the MM instructions instructions procedure for tune logging. He doesn't request people to handle it that way just for the hell of it.
2. Listen to the right people. There is good info on the forum, but it's not all posted here. Start with getting the MAF and injector scaling right first, pretty much anything posted by MM or Kane on it will lead you in the right direction. This is the foundation for which the tune is built upon. Getting it right is very important.
3. Take the MM tuning seminar. There is critical information that you will need to have from it in order to build an effective tune. Clearly at least one of the people attempting to advise you in this thread has not taken it.
1. Follow the MM instructions instructions procedure for tune logging. He doesn't request people to handle it that way just for the hell of it.
2. Listen to the right people. There is good info on the forum, but it's not all posted here. Start with getting the MAF and injector scaling right first, pretty much anything posted by MM or Kane on it will lead you in the right direction. This is the foundation for which the tune is built upon. Getting it right is very important.
3. Take the MM tuning seminar. There is critical information that you will need to have from it in order to build an effective tune. Clearly at least one of the people attempting to advise you in this thread has not taken it.
07-24-2011, 12:55 PM
#27
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
Lol I don't think I would be asking questions If I knew I was doing it right Team.
I don't see a use in sending MM tune logs because I can't see what he has done when he sending me a tune. Sure I can send him logs for the next 6 months and get an sweet tune don't get me wrong and I respect him for that, but I learn nothing from it if I can't see what he has done. Also because MM said my MAF and P2's are off, I figured posting my MAF for the same run would make his answer more specific so I can start fixing the problem.
I can't say I'm that wrong in my tuning though. I did fix my bottomed out AFR's at wot to a point that I can see the AFR changing though the rpm range. Hard to tune when you don't know how far past 11 it goes. Now because I am getting 210g/s at the top end, can my MAF really be that far off. I already scaled up my P1's by 2% to zero out my negative LTFT, now I get close to a steady 14.7 on cruise. Now looking at the afr's and it being a somewhat linear drop after almost 8k, I would say that is more my P2's then my maf scale no?
I don't see a use in sending MM tune logs because I can't see what he has done when he sending me a tune. Sure I can send him logs for the next 6 months and get an sweet tune don't get me wrong and I respect him for that, but I learn nothing from it if I can't see what he has done. Also because MM said my MAF and P2's are off, I figured posting my MAF for the same run would make his answer more specific so I can start fixing the problem.
I can't say I'm that wrong in my tuning though. I did fix my bottomed out AFR's at wot to a point that I can see the AFR changing though the rpm range. Hard to tune when you don't know how far past 11 it goes. Now because I am getting 210g/s at the top end, can my MAF really be that far off. I already scaled up my P1's by 2% to zero out my negative LTFT, now I get close to a steady 14.7 on cruise. Now looking at the afr's and it being a somewhat linear drop after almost 8k, I would say that is more my P2's then my maf scale no?
Last edited by TechnoPsycho87; 07-24-2011 at 12:56 PM. Reason: grammar
07-24-2011, 01:49 PM
#28
Let me translate -- Old-Man is a similar dialect to Oltmann.
He is suggesting you log the way described in those posts; idle, open loop cruise, 2nd and 3rd gear WOT from roll. This certainly isn't the only way to log, but it is the easiest way to get the data you need.
Also, he wants you to know that the VE table modifies absolute load, not fuel targets directly.
Team read this.
--
For whatever a single anecdote is worth, I chased my tale for a quite a while trying to make a "perfect" MAF scale. After many runs/corrections, and finally curve fitting in Matlab and it turned out almost exactly the same as stock.
He is suggesting you log the way described in those posts; idle, open loop cruise, 2nd and 3rd gear WOT from roll. This certainly isn't the only way to log, but it is the easiest way to get the data you need.
Also, he wants you to know that the VE table modifies absolute load, not fuel targets directly.
Team read this.
--
For whatever a single anecdote is worth, I chased my tale for a quite a while trying to make a "perfect" MAF scale. After many runs/corrections, and finally curve fitting in Matlab and it turned out almost exactly the same as stock.
07-24-2011, 03:12 PM
#29
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
Thanks Oltmann. I figure my MAF scale is fine so I'll see if changing my P2's do anything. If not, I'll have to start playing with the ve tables. P.S. Does Team always sound like he is in a bad mood?? lol
Last edited by TechnoPsycho87; 07-24-2011 at 03:12 PM. Reason: grammar
07-24-2011, 05:44 PM
#33
I find your graphs wee bit hard to read.
I like to put the RPM on the horizontal scale instead of the log entry time points (maybe ... at least for my little brain)
I like to separate my maf data from stuff like RPM and Calc load as the scaling on the graph gets all whacked.
Catch me on google talk if you wanna bounce some thoughts around.
sabennett@gmail.com
Attachment 174835
I like to put the RPM on the horizontal scale instead of the log entry time points (maybe ... at least for my little brain)
I like to separate my maf data from stuff like RPM and Calc load as the scaling on the graph gets all whacked.
Catch me on google talk if you wanna bounce some thoughts around.
sabennett@gmail.com
Attachment 174835
Last edited by wcs; 12-12-2011 at 08:06 AM.
07-24-2011, 06:16 PM
#34
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
you using office or openoffice. I'm on OO and I can't get my charts to look like that. i can get rpm on the x axis but it don't flow like yours, my x axis is fixed from 1 to 10k.If I put 2 gears, they overlap each other. I added you to GT btw.
07-24-2011, 09:28 PM
#37
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
hey if it helps people read my logs then whatever, why do you bother posting if your always negative. There is such thing as positive and constructive comments/advice, you should try it sometime. At least he is trying to help me, and I even helped him with his tune while we were chatting so go bug someone else.
Last edited by TechnoPsycho87; 07-24-2011 at 09:58 PM. Reason: addition
07-24-2011, 09:55 PM
#40
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
It is normal to get a lean spike when the S-DAIS valves open. Looks like the the APV and VDI are opening at the normal spots in 1st. The APV probably stays open when you shift because the RPMs don't drop enough. The spike for the VDI opening still seems to be there in 2nd, but less pronounced.
Eventually, you will probably need to tweak the VE table to get the AFRs you want (lower = leaner, higher = richer) but I'd bet that your fuel injectors still aren't set quite right.
Eventually, you will probably need to tweak the VE table to get the AFRs you want (lower = leaner, higher = richer) but I'd bet that your fuel injectors still aren't set quite right.
07-24-2011, 10:25 PM
#41
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
1. My idle and redline (5 and 210 g/s) are under the norm from what I have read. I am fixing all the retarded drops in my tables so i can compare easier. If my fuel table and VE table are all balanced, its easier to see the problem. like when i first started. my entire open loop wot was 11, hard to make adjustments when you don't know how far past 11 it goes. Now I generally get 12's until my topend drop. My table is leaner so i know its not the fuel table. My process may be different then everyone else's but as long as I know where to make the changes to fix a problem I'm good.
Plus I did some math for a point where my maf is at 210 g/s, if I were to scale my maf it would become 185.934 g/s or a 13% decrease in my maf reading at 3.92 V for my AFR to work and that is if that is the actual amount of air coming in. Doesnt that sound a little drastic?
2. I know chasing -2% LTFT is pointless. Its a single change, its not like I gonna spend 30-40 remaps trying to make it 0. 2% for 2% if it doesn't work then whatever. I'm not an idiot but I believe in trying things for chance.
Last edited by TechnoPsycho87; 07-24-2011 at 10:28 PM. Reason: math
07-25-2011, 07:34 AM
#43
Because the Maf scale can be anything you like really.
All that 5 g/s means is that is the amount that correlates to voltage being indicated by the Maf.
So basically you could scale that voltage value or airflow value to reflect 4 g/s at idle or 6 g/s at idle
If after a couple drive cycles you are only getting -3% to 3% LTFT for idle ... your good. No need to adjust the Maf scale in that area.
Which I believe is:
Idle range:
0.86v to 1.48v
1.95g/s to 9.89g/s
Then do your cruise logs (make sure you r in OL)
Have a look at the LTFT
Adjust Maf scale between
Cruise range:
1.56v and 2.89v
The Maf scale from 3.01v to 4.69 is a bit tricky ... to me at least.
You can use the WOT log and extrapolate the difference in measure AFR to the fuel map in that gear.
(flame suit engaged)
edit:
BTW you are shooting for Mean Best Torque at WOT and that's not 14.7
Oh and altitude will affect the g/s value
All that 5 g/s means is that is the amount that correlates to voltage being indicated by the Maf.
So basically you could scale that voltage value or airflow value to reflect 4 g/s at idle or 6 g/s at idle
If after a couple drive cycles you are only getting -3% to 3% LTFT for idle ... your good. No need to adjust the Maf scale in that area.
Which I believe is:
Idle range:
0.86v to 1.48v
1.95g/s to 9.89g/s
Then do your cruise logs (make sure you r in OL)
Have a look at the LTFT
Adjust Maf scale between
Cruise range:
1.56v and 2.89v
The Maf scale from 3.01v to 4.69 is a bit tricky ... to me at least.
You can use the WOT log and extrapolate the difference in measure AFR to the fuel map in that gear.
(flame suit engaged)
edit:
BTW you are shooting for Mean Best Torque at WOT and that's not 14.7
Oh and altitude will affect the g/s value
Last edited by wcs; 07-25-2011 at 08:13 AM.
07-25-2011, 07:41 AM
#44
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
My curve obviously isn't perfect, I understand that. Only you MM would only respond to the part of my post that didn't require an answer. If anything, I expected you to respond to the scaling change I showed on part 2 of 3.
a 13% drop at 3.92V, seems a little drastic, no?
a 13% drop at 3.92V, seems a little drastic, no?
07-25-2011, 08:12 AM
#46
My curve obviously isn't perfect, I understand that. Only you MM would only respond to the part of my post that didn't require an answer. If anything, I expected you to respond to the scaling change I showed on part 2 of 3.
a 13% drop at 3.92V, seems a little drastic, no?
a 13% drop at 3.92V, seems a little drastic, no?
Are you referencing the picture in Post#22?
If your Maf and your P2 injectors are out then no I wouldn't think 13% is too far out of whack
Edit:
The vdi opens at 7250 rpm .. that might be playing a bit of havoc, your afr's will dip there and take a bit to recover.
That is occurring right before you are getting that g/s value you are mentioning, if I'm looking at the right log
Aim for MBT which is around 12.9
Post a idle log, a cruise log in OL in 3-4 gear and a WOT in 2gear and one in 3 gear please
Last edited by wcs; 07-25-2011 at 09:48 AM.
07-25-2011, 01:45 PM
#48
Then I guess you forgot to do it on the calibration you did for me.