Kane

iTrader: (1)

Nice.... I haven't gotten over 4.6 yet - you must be cranking it up!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

You are seeing over 400 g/sec at 4.61v?

Your MAF scale is WAAAAAAAAAAAY off.
If you are using a correctly sized MAF tube, 4.61v is only about 360 - 380 g/sec.
You shouldn't see anything above 400 g/sec until you cross somewhere just south of 4.7v

If you are hitting your lambda targets accurately with this MAF scaling, your injector scaling is off.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Jeff is right - I just checked mine (I have the AEM), I am 382 g/sec at 4.61

What size is your MAF housing? Baseline will tell you to add g/sec when you are running richer than target.... so if your P2's are not scaled it can throw the whole thing off some.

Are you running OEM injectors? Also pull up the 3D % to Add or Remove Map - if you see all your rich spots in high load and boost... maybe you should move to injectors.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The MAF curve is fairly absolute. If the physical setup is correct (right shape, flow and diameter), you will only be moving a couple of percent either way from the OE curve.
You can trim stuff here and there (like idle and cruise), but if you moved your idle and cruise MAF ranges, say, -6% to get no LTFT, you should have done that at the primary injector scaling instead.

You should top out the MAF at 5v and 480 g/sec or so. 4.77v is around 420 g/sec.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

This brings up a good point for those with flow tested injectors.

Based on the FSM, injectors are flow tested at 60 PSI to determine if their flow is accurate. When you go to get them flowtested at like KG Parts - they flow test them at 2.5 Bar (37ish PSI).

So I had to scale mine up by even more than the flow tests...I couldn't find a definitive answer of this - but it made sense to me.

Mawnee

My maf tube is the stock tube. I cut it off right at the back edge of the stock airbox. All the piping around it is 3.5 od

Injectors are set at stock for the Bank 1 and 2. Bank 3 has my 900cc injectors which I have scaled with an 1100 value in Racetuner.
There is conflicting information as to whether the stocks are 380 or 390. Which would give me 1100 or 1130 values, I chose to err on the side of undersizing my injectors.

My maf setup:
2010-01-26234650.jpg?t=1266336084

2010-01-26234708.jpg?t=1266336924

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I don't even know what to make of that MAF.
Just the elbow directly after the sensor alone should disqualify it from consideration.

That said, your MAF values are just not useful as a measure of airflow, regardless of why they are wrong.

Go back and look at the OE MAF table. Mathematically extend it to 5v. Now, multiply the entire thing up and down by 3%.
That is that absolute maximum deviation you should allow yourself and the variation from cell to cell should be less than 2% from optimum.

If you are doing any more scaling from that you are tuning incorrectly and producing useless numbers.

Mawnee

So....even though my tune is getting closer and closer and my car hits target AFRs near perfectly. My car idles, cruises and drives perfectly.
I should scrap everything and do it over?

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Good question..... I wouldn't just yet -

When you scaled your injectors (P2) - how did you do it?

Mawnee

(900/380)*476=1127
(900/390)*476=1098

It wouldnt be that hard to cut a couple pieces of pipe and move the maf and screens forward.......maybe I should just do that and start over. I wasnt 'that' far into the tune and now that I'm familiar with baseline I could get back to where I am fairly quickly.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

But were they flowtested at 60 PSI?

Mawnee

I just looked 2.5bar

Kane

iTrader: (1)

How close to pegged is your AFR gauge? and how did your mvalues look say 2-3 tunes ago?

Kane

iTrader: (1)

This is one of the times that having Baseline might be able to bail you out - cause it saves your old tunes.

Mawnee

Guage doesnt peg anymore stays in the 11s under boost at all times. I'm commanding an AFR of 11.5-11.3. Seeing AFRs from 11.6-11.1. Guage bottoms out at 10.1 but I havent seen a 10 at all in the last few runs.

M values have never been more than 2-3% Anything higher and I scaled it according to the values on either side of it and left it at that till the next round.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Ok, and has the overall curve looked about the same?

What Volts have you scaled the most? Like from 3.5 and up or what?

Mawnee

From 2.7v up. But I had added to it before I even started baseline.

Could this have something to do with the AFR delay? o.0

Kane

iTrader: (1)

No worries - go to Baseline and pull up your first MAF scale and follow the trends as you open each new tune. Then look at the Fuel % to add or remove and see there should be a "Box" of positive numbers from like 6000 RPMs and over 100% load. If the box looks about the same size in that same area - then you can consistently say that your P2 injector is too big.

The next phase is to trade M-values for Injector 3 Scale....so if you average 10% too rich then take 10% out of the MAF and add 10% to your P2 injector.

Call me if I am confusing you.

Mawnee

I'll have to revisit this in a few hours. I took a pain killer and was about to lay down for a nap when I visited this thread. I dont have the.....focus for this atm. Thats why I havent called ya Kane

Thanks for all the advice

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Based on that information, your P2s should probably be scaled in the 900 range, not 1100.

Also, realize that by jacking the MAF up that far, you are screwing with the load calculation, which will change a bunch of other things adversely, like the lift-throttle fuel cut (over-run) and closed-loop exit.

Mawnee

Yep been wondering about the laod thing. I've been seeing well in excess of 200% load and knew it had to be screwign things up. I"ll get it worked out.

Wouldnt I want to go higher with the injector settign not lower?

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Yeah before I scaled my WOT part of the MAF I had bumped it based on my cruise info for safety - and my load went to 200%, then scaling it once I logged it went to more of the 160 range... which is about right based on my boost controller settings.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

If you are rich then higher injector settings - however if you are rich then baseline should be telling you to take away from your MAF not add to it.

If you are lean then it will tell you to add to your MAF.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No. The MAF and the injector scaling are inversely proportional.
You have been adding MAF to simulate more airflow and, therefore, adding more fuel.

Lowering the scaling will make the injectors "smaller" to the PCM and, therefore, the duty cycle will go up and more fuel will be added.

Mawnee

I submit for your approval Mawnee's intake version 4.0. I took it for a short drive after the change and it seemed to run a bit richer, dipping into the upper 10s in low boost. Figured I'd go ahead and redo that now since I have to redo the tune anyway.