tdiddy

Gotcha thanks! That could really ruin somebodys day. Bump on the injector wiring^

Here is how my jumpers are set now:
JP1 - Injector Input/Output CH-1 = Open (In-Out)
JP2 - Injector Input/Output CH-2 = Open (In-Out)
JP3 - Injector Input/Output CH-3 = Open (In-Out)
JP4 - Injector Input/Output CH-4 = Open (In-Out)
JP5 - Injector Input/Output CH-5 = Open (In-Out)
JP6 - Injector Input/Output CH-6 = Open (In-Out)
JP7 - Ignition Input = 1-2 (Normal)
JP8 - Ignition Output = 2-3 (12 volt)
JP9 - Airflow Signal Input/Output = Open (Normal)
JP10 - Airflow Signal Input 2 = 1-2 (RB26DETT)
JP11 - OPTION 1 = Open (Normal)
JP12 - OPTION 2 = Open (Normal)
JP13 - Water Temp Input = 1-2 (Pull-up)
JP14 - Intake Temp Input = 1-2 (Pull-up)
JP15 - RPM Signal Input = 1-2 (Normal Input)
JP16 - Frequency Input/VTEC Input = Open (karman IN)
JP17 - Frequency Output/VTM Output = 1-2 (karman Output)
JP18 - Injector Input/Output Signal CH1~6 = Open (In-Out)
JP19 - Injector Signal CH-A = 1-2 (I/J, Sub I/J, NVCS, Relay(-))
JP20 - Injector Signal CH-B = 1-2 (I/J, Sub I/J, NVCS, Relay(-))

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I think that all looks good.

The injector wiring is made complicated only by the fact that the EMU uses some of the output pins to do different things depending on the configuration of the software and the jumpers.

If you have an injector output set as a "sub-injector" (as you have outputs "5" & "6" above), both its "input" channel on the main connector and its "output" channel on the injector connector will function as outputs. So, the way I have mine setup, pins 26, 27, 43 & 44 are ALL sub-injector outputs; 26 & 43 are "A" and 27 & 44 are "B".
Injector channels "7" & "8" are the bastard children.
The EMU only has the ability to create these signals - you cant wire the EMU into a V8 and give each injector its own input, but it can turn a 8-banger's batch injection into sequential.
More importantly, the "7" & "8" channels can be either a 3rd sub-injector channel OR, as I have it wired, a relay activation channel via the NCVS map, which causes those channels to be pulled to ground when an "ON" cell is encountered in the NCVS map.

tdiddy

So what are you using pins 28 & 29 for? It doesn't sound like your using them?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Nothing, though they are a mirror of 43 & 44 when you have channels "5" & "6" set as sub-injectors.

unreal89

Bump! because I don't think tdiddy's question about the odd ignition wiring was answered and I am too wondering why it is wired like this:

tdiddy

^I am pretty sure Greddy has done this for a couple of reasons. First, they don't want anyone playing with split so they wire it so that you can't. Second, they are using a grouped ignition scheme in conjunction with the ignition chip to try and combat the RX8's weak ignition issues. All they really care about is that the Fronts and Rears fire when they are supposed to.

With my rewire I am changing this so that all the input and output channels match. I think this is how Jeff has his wired which will give more control and allow for split adjustments if necessary. Hopefull the HKS ignition unit will help with the weak ignition signal and everything will be all good.

tdiddy

I've been wondering if the Ultimate NVCS function could be used to force open the Auxiliary Ports in addition to disabling the front O2 sensor when under boost.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Already does that in the GReddy update.

tdiddy

The upgrade kit forces the Aux. Ports open? I thought it used a resistor to keep the Aux Ports closed?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

It opens the secondaries whenever the O2 dongle turns on, which is pretty much all boosted ranges plus a bit of the area just before boost at some RPMs.
The resistor shorts the PCM's signal to the secondary solenoid back to the position sensor so that it doesn't freak out that it no longer has control of the port.
The aux ports are blocked in the kit and held shut by a similar method.

tdiddy

So theoretically, I could wire the auxillary intake ports to open at the same time as the secondary intake ports by wiring the aux. ports to the wires that force open the secondaries?

Do you see any issues with opening all the ports whenever there is positive manifold pressure?

This thread discusses the issues for a N/A rotary but what about a boosted one?
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...opening+timing

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No. The APV is a motor, not a solenoid. You would need to figure out the way the motor duty cycle is controlled by the PCM and provide a high-current PWM driver for it.

Issues would be a huge increase in air quite suddenly, which you could address with the acceleration MAP.

The Int-X folks leave the APV motor to the PCM control. The GReddy upgrade disables it entirely. You could re-wire it to be left to the PCM, which is how I have mine.

tdiddy

That is exactly the kind of explination I was looking for, Thanks Jeff!! I have mine wired like yours where the PCM controls the APV.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Another threadsurrection.


Jumper Settings
JP1 - Injector Input/Output CH-1 = OPEN (IN/OUT)1
JP2 - Injector Input/Output CH-2 = OPEN (IN/OUT)1
JP3 - Injector Input/Output CH-3 = OPEN (IN/OUT)1
JP4 - Injector Input/Output CH-4 = OPEN (IN/OUT)1
JP5 - Injector Input/Output CH-5 = OPEN (IN/OUT)1
JP6 - Injector Input/Output CH-6 = OPEN (IN/OUT)1
JP7 - Ignition Input = 1-2 (Normal)
JP8 - Ignition Output = 2-3 (12 volt)2
JP9 - Airflow Signal Input/Output = Open (Normal)
JP10 - Airflow Signal Input 2 = 2-3 (VTEC OUT)
JP11 - OPTION 1 = Open (Normal)
JP12 - OPTION 2 = Open (Normal)
JP13 - Knock Signal Input 1/Water Temp Input = 1-2 (Pull Up)
JP14 - Knock Signal Input 2/Water Temp Input = 1-2 (Pull Up)
JP15 - RPM Signal Input = 1-2 (Normal Input)
JP16 - Frequency Input/VTEC Input = 1-2 (VTEC IN)
JP17 - Frequency Output/VTM Output = OPEN (VTM)
JP18 - Injector Input/Output Signal CH1~6 = OPEN (IN/OUT)
JP19 - Injector Signal CH-A = 1-2 (I/J, Sub I/J, NVCS, Relay(-))
JP20 - Injector Signal CH-B = 1-2 (I/J, Sub I/J, NVCS, Relay(-))

Wire Connections:

Ultimate Connector A (12 Pin)
Pin #3 - Ignition Input Signal CH-4 (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #2Z - Rear Leading Ignition Coil 3
Pin #10 - Ignition Input Signal CH-3 (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #2AA - Front Leading Ignition Coil 3
Pin #4 - Ignition Input Signal CH-2 (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #2AC - Rear Trailing Ignition Coil 3
Pin #5 - Ignition Input Signal CH-1 (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #2AD - Front Trailing Ignition Coil 3
Pin #8 - Ignition Output Signal CH-4 (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #2Z - Rear Leading Ignition Coil 3
Pin #9 - Ignition Output Signal CH-3 (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #2AA - Front Leading Ignition Coil 3
Pin #11 - Ignition Output Signal CH-2 (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #2AC - Rear Trailing Ignition Coil 3
Pin #12 - Ignition Output Signal CH-1 (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #2AD - Front Trailing Ignition Coil 3

Ultimate Connector B (18 pin)
Pin #15 – Airflow (voltage) Input (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #5N – MAF
Pin #22 – Airflow (voltage) Output (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #5N – MAF
Pin #16 - Throttle Pos. Sensor Input (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #5F - Accelerator
Pin #17 – Injector Input Signal CH-1 comes from PCM Pin #2M – Front Primary Injector (intercepted) 4
Pin #18 – Injector Input Signal CH-2 comes from PCM Pin #2J – Rear Primary Injector (intercepted) 4
Pin #19 – Injector Input Signal CH-3 comes from PCM Pin #2G – Front Secondary Injector (intercepted) 4
Pin #20 – Injector Input Signal CH-4 comes from PCM Pin #2D – Rear Secondary Injector (intercepted) 4
Pin #24 – ECU Ground (piggybacks) comes from PCM Pin #4J – PCM EFI Ground
Pin #25 – ECU (Ignition) Power (piggybacks) comes from PCM Pin #4Q – PCM EFI PowerPin #26 – Injector Output Signal CH-7/A goes to (piggybacks) PCM Pin #4O – Secondary Air Injection Pump (a diode is inserted on the PCM side) 5Pin #27 – Injector Output Signal CH-8/B goes to (piggybacks) PCM Pin #1L – Secondary Shutter Valve (a diode is inserted on the PCM side) 6
Pin #30 – Injector Ground (Sensor) goes to (piggybacks) PCM Pin #4A – Injector Ground

Ultimate Connector C (14 pin)
Pin #32 - Knock Signal 1/Water Temp Signal
Pin #33 – Crank Angle Signal Input (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #2U – Eccentric Shaft Position
Pin #43 – Injector Output Signal CH-5 goes to PCM Pin #3A – Front Primary 2 Injector 7
Pin #44 – Injector Output Signal CH-6 goes to PCM Pin #3D – Rear Primary 2 Injector 7
Pin #34 - Injector Output Signal CH-1 goes to PCM Pin #2M – Front Primary Injector (intercepted) 7
Pin #35 - Injector Output Signal CH-2 goes to PCM Pin #2J – Rear Primary Injector (intercepted) 7
Pin #36 - Injector Output Signal CH-3 goes to PCM Pin #2G – Front Secondary Injector (intercepted) 7
Pin #42 - Injector Output Signal CH-4 goes to PCM Pin #2D – Rear Secondary Injector (intercepted) 7

Ultimate Dongle
Lt.Blue Wire #1 – (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #2B – WBO2S 8
Lt.Blue Wire #2 = (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #2C – WBO2S 8
Green Wire – (piggybacks) comes from/goes to Ultimate Connector B Pin #26 (PCM Pin #4O)
Red Wire – (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4Q – PCM EFI Power

tdiddy

I agree. Are you using the RX-8 specific ignition chip that comes with the upgrade kit? Could the "chip" have something to do with the 12v setting?

For a normally aspirated setup, keep the primary 2 injectors as piggyback until you go FI and don't attempt to trim fuel from them. Only trim fuel from the primaries and secondaries.

Good catch! This was a mistake. My Bad! At least someone is out there checking my work.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Perhaps, though I am using the #2 ignition chip from GReddy.
I have no idea what it does.

Yes, though a lot of this wiring is sort of "FI" specific.

I caught it the first time around, but I wasn't sure what to comment on it.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

MAF temp? I take it you mean the IAT sensor.
The MAF is 5N, the IAT is 5K.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I ended up running a transistor between the temp sensor, the input and ground.
That made it work.

joff

From the service manual I'm currently reading through, it looks like the water temp sensor is just a simple thermistor (variable resister). Indeed, enabling a pull-up (EMU jumper JP13) on the input is necessary for any analog to digital circuitry on the E-Manage to see the resistance change, but I bet theres already some sort of voltage already being applied by the ECU if the net is piggybacked. If thats the case, the E-Manage's pull-up would fight whatever the ECU is using as the excitation voltage and the readings could be thrown way off for both devices depending on 1) the output impedance and voltage of the ECU excitation signal, and 2) the E-Manage pull-up voltage and resistance.

What is the exact transistor type you are using? (PNP,NPN, or a FET) and which lead is going where (base, emitter, collector (bipolar transistor) --- or gate,source,drain (FET))? I have a feeling you may be still affecting what the ECU/EMU reads as coolant temp with that transistor in the circuit. If we knew the ECU excitation voltage and the EMU analog/digital converter range/pullup voltage, a better circuit would be had by using an op-amp and a feedback resistor to perfectly scale up/down the voltage without affecting the ECU reading. The input to an op-amp has mega-ohms of input impedance and does not effect the circuit before it in any appreciable way.

I want to understand this too so I can use the E-manage, or a simple comparator circuit to turn on the fans earlier. I have a hard time paying $129 for a particular "cooling fan modification" that a $1 circuit would do just as well.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Well, the PCM is still reading correctly, so the circuit isn't pulling the value either way on the harness.
The problem was that the EMU was reading full low or high (depending on the setup value), probably because its impedance is too low.
I don't even remember which transistor I grabbed out of the bin (I'm famous for that), but the collector goes to the EMU, the emitter goes to ground and the bas goes to the thermistor.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The total timing reduction cannot exceed 20°, so if you have -20° in the total timing map and -20° in the individual, you will still only have -20° net.
Also, the individual cylinder ignition ADJ MAP is "static", so that timing differential is fixed to RPM and not load.