Fix for issues with CZ units in GB #2
#51
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: WHITE HOUSE
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what are we suppose to tune the afr too.someone told me 13 to 13.5 at wot is that right.
i should be picking up a canscan sometime next week and start messing with it.i lost 8 hp when my unit comes on .any one have any ideas as to why iam loseing power. by the way i dont have the m flash or any other flash.
i should be picking up a canscan sometime next week and start messing with it.i lost 8 hp when my unit comes on .any one have any ideas as to why iam loseing power. by the way i dont have the m flash or any other flash.
#54
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: WHITE HOUSE
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no i want to stay away from m flash or any flashes i know of 2 people who dyno really low after the flashes mines dynoing 186 at the wheels stock.so if i can i would want to not have them done. so should i just sell the unit or iam i still able to tune this.
#55
Mazda Mole
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you may be putting too much stock into dynos. Are you just concerned about the peak HP or the "Area under the curve"? M flashes seriously improves "area under the curve."
#56
Originally Posted by Xyntax
Good to hear that Speed Racer. I wish there was some way we all could share our maps online and put some sort of description beside it. Maybe even a sample pic of AFR diagram for the map.
I'm gonna have to purchase the cable!
I'm gonna have to purchase the cable!
It also might be helpful if one of the more experienced tuners out there could throw together some sort of tuning guide. I haven't even gotten my CZ yet, so I won't be much help on that front.
#59
Certified track junky!!!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lebanon, NH
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not an expert in setting up an eManage. I've just been trying to connect all of the dots that have been left by Canzoomer, RX-8 friend, and MazdaManiac. Now they are the real experts. :D
#60
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: WHITE HOUSE
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry mazdamaniac i left you out you been sharing lots of information to people who need it and dont know much about this unit.
"you said rx8 friend" who's that is he a new member ? :D
"you said rx8 friend" who's that is he a new member ? :D
#61
Riot Controller
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
personally, im concerned with WOT in 4th, 5th and 6th, but thats just my maniac style..no pun intended
smrx8, search for gtech result pre and post M flash by mazdamaniac...it's faster. Area under the curve is key, after all you probably do drive this car on the street, so its low revs most of the time. personally i dont find the idle to be any worse
smrx8, search for gtech result pre and post M flash by mazdamaniac...it's faster. Area under the curve is key, after all you probably do drive this car on the street, so its low revs most of the time. personally i dont find the idle to be any worse
#62
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nicholasville, Ky
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just got my unit back from the upgrade. He moved the switch to the other side which now makes it much harder to turn on or off without removing the ecu cover. But what is the connector for that is stick out? Remote switch would be nice.
#65
Mazda Mole
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another tid bit from Maurice
let's start sharing the info. Maybe someone write up a "Best Practices" manual with all the responses we get from Maurice, Jeff, etc.
Regarding ignition advance reading from Canscan:
"This is useful as it tells you the advance BEFORE we modify it on the Stage 1.
For example. If, at full throttle, 7200rpm ( 3600 as shown in the e-manage software) we see 26 degrees of advance form the CANScan, and we add 8 degrees in the map, we now have a total of 34 degrees of advance. Try not to exceed 37 degrees of advance." - Maurice Hilarius
let's start sharing the info. Maybe someone write up a "Best Practices" manual with all the responses we get from Maurice, Jeff, etc.
Regarding ignition advance reading from Canscan:
"This is useful as it tells you the advance BEFORE we modify it on the Stage 1.
For example. If, at full throttle, 7200rpm ( 3600 as shown in the e-manage software) we see 26 degrees of advance form the CANScan, and we add 8 degrees in the map, we now have a total of 34 degrees of advance. Try not to exceed 37 degrees of advance." - Maurice Hilarius
#66
Certified track junky!!!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lebanon, NH
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Magic8
Another tid bit from Maurice
let's start sharing the info. Maybe someone write up a "Best Practices" manual with all the responses we get from Maurice, Jeff, etc.
let's start sharing the info. Maybe someone write up a "Best Practices" manual with all the responses we get from Maurice, Jeff, etc.
#68
Coming thru in waves...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Somewhere between Yesterday and Tomorrow.
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Speed Racer
I've already got a document started and it contains over 30 pages of info. I just need to rewrite the info so that it is easier to follow and understand. There are also a few holes that I need to fill in with the help of our resident experts.
On a negative note, this is something Maurice should have been working on, not you. Seems like you're in search of the Canzoomer Edmonton Scrolls. We are praying for Canzoomer's second coming.
He's turned his venture into the very atmosphere of doubt that he so distainly refered to in his infamous "RX8 Lemonade" thread and others. Mazda's denial and apathy with the problems that he at that time could not tolerate.
I could rant on this, but this thread is on the right track, to get the thing to work without him. I applaud all of it. Now that RX8 Friend got back from his 2 month absence to tell those like me to not even think about fixing the coil issue with a dipswitch model, I am now finding myself at square 1 again to get the fix done. (No DIY instructions for all levels, as promised)
Maybe when I finally get it back, y'all will have come-up with something good. Right on!
Last edited by Racer X-8; 09-16-2004 at 10:18 PM.
#69
Apexing at Oak Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Blue, Educated State in the North
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for the lugging issue...
I spent about 2 hours on the phone with Speed Racer tonight while I was in my car getting everything tuned. Noticing a couple of things that might help
1. Ignition Advance - the ignition advance that seems to make the most power is +30 deg. If you have a CanScan cable then you can take readings of what your currently running with. The CanScan cable can only take readings of what happens before the CZ unit makes its changes, it is impossible for it to take readings of what happens after the changes. What you CAN do is take a Real Time Log from the eManage tool and add in ignition time. This will tell you the value that the CZ unit is adding or subtracting from the value the CanScan tool is reading in. Now, having said that, during low RPMs (below 4000) the CZ unit makes it's edits from the leftmost column. If you look at that column you will see the values. Also notice the lowest voltage on the lefthand scale is 3.00. This means that if you are under 4400 rpm and below 3.00V on the MAF, the change the CZ is adding in ignition timing is the very bottom left value (should read 2 for all of you in GB #2). Now, for me, if I look at my CanScan data, my ignition timing from the ECU at low rpms is between 10.5 and 17 degrees. This is very low to make power. I did 3 things to help solve this. First - I switched to the ignition maps that shipped with Speed Racer's unit (this map covers all MAF voltages from 0.00 to 4.10 instead of 3.00 to 4.05). Second - I used the Real Time Logging to make a run in 3rd gear from 2600rpm to redline, and looked at the data. Third - I increased the ignition advance to get me closer to a total of 30 degrees (i ended up increasing it by 7 deg where it needed it). This gave me more responsive and faster revving in the low rpms.
2. Thorttle Position - it is seeming more and more like WOT is not as good as 90% or 85% throttle. I am spending a little more time tuning the Airflow maps for 90% and 80% throttle.
3. I think an aftermarket intake might help here, but it has to be properly engineered. All thuth told, the K&N intake added great power in the high RPMs but stunk out the joint in the low rpms. The car does need more air in the high rpms.
I spent about 2 hours on the phone with Speed Racer tonight while I was in my car getting everything tuned. Noticing a couple of things that might help
1. Ignition Advance - the ignition advance that seems to make the most power is +30 deg. If you have a CanScan cable then you can take readings of what your currently running with. The CanScan cable can only take readings of what happens before the CZ unit makes its changes, it is impossible for it to take readings of what happens after the changes. What you CAN do is take a Real Time Log from the eManage tool and add in ignition time. This will tell you the value that the CZ unit is adding or subtracting from the value the CanScan tool is reading in. Now, having said that, during low RPMs (below 4000) the CZ unit makes it's edits from the leftmost column. If you look at that column you will see the values. Also notice the lowest voltage on the lefthand scale is 3.00. This means that if you are under 4400 rpm and below 3.00V on the MAF, the change the CZ is adding in ignition timing is the very bottom left value (should read 2 for all of you in GB #2). Now, for me, if I look at my CanScan data, my ignition timing from the ECU at low rpms is between 10.5 and 17 degrees. This is very low to make power. I did 3 things to help solve this. First - I switched to the ignition maps that shipped with Speed Racer's unit (this map covers all MAF voltages from 0.00 to 4.10 instead of 3.00 to 4.05). Second - I used the Real Time Logging to make a run in 3rd gear from 2600rpm to redline, and looked at the data. Third - I increased the ignition advance to get me closer to a total of 30 degrees (i ended up increasing it by 7 deg where it needed it). This gave me more responsive and faster revving in the low rpms.
2. Thorttle Position - it is seeming more and more like WOT is not as good as 90% or 85% throttle. I am spending a little more time tuning the Airflow maps for 90% and 80% throttle.
3. I think an aftermarket intake might help here, but it has to be properly engineered. All thuth told, the K&N intake added great power in the high RPMs but stunk out the joint in the low rpms. The car does need more air in the high rpms.
Last edited by RPIRX-8; 09-16-2004 at 11:10 PM.
#70
Mazda Mole
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find Maurice to be very responsive to my questions. I think the customer service of the company is very good. Michelle even called me to check that I received all my orders which I did and I would add in a timely fashion. It sounds like they are busy at working on their business.
#71
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: WHITE HOUSE
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what they should be doing is working on this forum to help people who are having problems with there unit not other people working for free for him .i said this a few weeks back about him writing up a post about the unit. since so many people are trying to tune it themselfs, and asking questions never happened.thanks to few hard working guys everything is starting to fit together.
#74
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: WHITE HOUSE
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
could you get any type of information just by plugging in the canzoomer proggraming cable. iam trying to start tuning but dont have a canscan. should i just wait till i can buy it