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Good Air/Fuel Targets for Safe NA Horsepower

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Old 03-26-2008 | 11:45 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Razz1
So then.......
How do we get the HYMEE scanalyer to read Lamda?

Next time we go on a data log run we will use that.
in the wide band o2 gauge. choose lambda in the drop down menu. it is there.


beers
Old 03-27-2008 | 12:53 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
What do engines use for oxidizer? Ambient(outside) air.
Oxyclean?
Old 03-27-2008 | 12:56 AM
  #103  
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Mine runs on Oxycontin.
Old 03-27-2008 | 01:00 AM
  #104  
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Well, I would understand if the sensor measured the relative quantities of O2, HC, CO, etc.. But if it's only measuring O2 that is giving you an incomplete picture... To get a lambda value from that aren't you making assumptions about combustion efficiency among other things? In that case are the UEGO sensors truly universal and are their readings equivalent between engines?
Old 03-27-2008 | 01:04 AM
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Its measuring the amount of O2 outside the engine vs. the amount that comes through the tailpipe.
It doesn't care anymore about the nitrogen or whatever than it does about the ethanol or the heptane.
Old 03-27-2008 | 05:40 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by CnnmnSchnpps
What I still can't quite wrap my head around is how what the wideband sensor sees is translated to a lambda value. The sensor is simply measuring the difference in O2 content between the exhaust and the outside air. How does that translate to a lambda value?

Essentially, 1.0 means there is no excess oxygen, and no requirement for more oxygen.

Here is an article a little more about it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor

Cheers,
Hymee.

Last edited by Hymee; 03-27-2008 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Fixed error.
Old 03-27-2008 | 01:43 PM
  #107  
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Alright so essentially aiming for 1.0 at WOT or cursing? From whats being said up top lower the decimal (.95) is richer and higher the decimal (1.1) leaner for lambda. My other question is does the Cobb Accessport with the tuning software have a lambda setup to tune with? I have seen DSM guys tune with lambda but never realized what was going on other then aim for .85 to .88 at WOT and close to .95 to 1.0 for cursing.
Basically what I'm saying is 12.6ish for under boost and cursing it can be ran leaner since your not trying to build boost for fuel efficiency. That was with a SAFC which sucks in my mind after seeing my buddy tune with AEM EMS....I love that lol.
Old 03-27-2008 | 02:02 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Razz1
So then.......
How do we get the HYMEE scanalyer to read Lamda?

Next time we go on a data log run we will use that.

tell it too it already does you just need to choose that option instead
Old 03-27-2008 | 02:37 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Triperformance
Alright so essentially aiming for 1.0 at WOT or cursing? From whats being said up top lower the decimal (.95) is richer and higher the decimal (1.1) leaner for lambda. My other question is does the Cobb Accessport with the tuning software have a lambda setup to tune with? I have seen DSM guys tune with lambda but never realized what was going on other then aim for .85 to .88 at WOT and close to .95 to 1.0 for cursing.
Basically what I'm saying is 12.6ish for under boost and cursing it can be ran leaner since your not trying to build boost for fuel efficiency. That was with a SAFC which sucks in my mind after seeing my buddy tune with AEM EMS....I love that lol.
I'm not sure why you are cursing at your lambda, but you should probably go read the "So You Wanna Be a Tuner" thread before you go any further since you have it almost completely wrong.
Old 03-27-2008 | 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Uh, no. The sensor references outside air.
Even the article you linked indicates that. Perhaps you should read it?

The Nippondenso patent:
http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05518603__

"An oxygen concentration detecting device has a solid electrolyte made of a partially stabilized zirconia on one face of which is formed a measuring electrode exposed to a gas to be measured and on the other face of which a standard electrode exposed to a standard gas."
OK. I stand corrected. This patent is a little more specific.

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4915814

Cheers,
Hymee.
Old 03-27-2008 | 03:07 PM
  #111  
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Thanks guys, I'll read the patents when I get home and hopefully that will unconfuse me...
Old 03-27-2008 | 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
I'm not sure why you are cursing at your lambda, but you should probably go read the "So You Wanna Be a Tuner" thread before you go any further since you have it almost completely wrong.
Will do, thanks for the thread name!
Old 04-02-2008 | 07:29 PM
  #113  
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Bringing that which is buried in this thread to the surface.

NA makes peak power around .85 lambda on the dyno. Anything leaner does not seem to provide significantly more horsepower but does raise EGTs which should shorten the life of your cat.
Old 04-02-2008 | 07:38 PM
  #114  
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the rest of the world disagrees with the above statement... including Motec and the Star Mazda series
Old 04-02-2008 | 07:39 PM
  #115  
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Proper lambda targets are not a static value.
At WOT and RPM in a very small range, .85 - .89 produces good power.
In other ranges, .92 produces more power.

As OldDragger pointed out, don't worry about the numbers. Give the engine what it is asking for. You can only find that out with experimentation on your own.
Old 04-02-2008 | 07:57 PM
  #116  
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Please post that at the beginning of the thread next time.
Old 04-02-2008 | 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar
Please post that at the beginning of the thread next time.
Is post number 5 close enough to the beginning for you?
Old 04-02-2008 | 11:09 PM
  #118  
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Hey, my friends, where's the beef?
Old 04-03-2008 | 12:08 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar
Tools are coming available for all to generate their own tuned files. I would like to see work on getting the most power from a NA tune.

I am very comfortable with air/fuel ratios for our race engines (pistons, best power around 13.2 air/fuel gasoline or .9 lambda) but am curious what those who know would have to say about a good NA A/F.

What are cat and engine safe Air/Fuel targets for getting the best power from a NA RX-8?
Why are you asking a question that has already been answered by Mazda themselves? We learned from the Star Mazda Series cars that they targeted 13.5:1 AFR (.92 - .93 lambda) at the open-loop area.

BTW, there is no safe tune for the catalytic converter that comes on our cars if you ask me.

Last edited by Nemesis8; 04-03-2008 at 12:10 PM.
Old 04-03-2008 | 12:23 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Nemesis8
BTW, there is no safe tune for the catalytic converter that comes on our cars if you ask me.
Yeah, that is basically true.
Any tune is going to compromise it. Even the stock tune compromises it, but they try to get it to live long enough that they don't get in trouble with the Fed.
Old 11-02-2021 | 07:57 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
It depends on the Ve of the motor at any particular load point.
Im sorry but i have to ask
what is the Ve exaclty?
i see the map in mazdaedit but i dont know what it is for
i would appreciate an answer ^^
Old 11-02-2021 | 08:10 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Witi
Im sorry but i have to ask
what is the Ve exaclty?
i see the map in mazdaedit but i dont know what it is for
i would appreciate an answer ^^
Nice 13 year bump!

I doubt you'll get an answer from a member whos been banned for a long time.

Ve = Volumetric efficiency

Old 11-02-2021 | 09:01 AM
  #123  
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thx mate XD
yeah i know i was quite late with this post but i scaned a lot of postes from back to front to lock for this
i googled like 2h for this so i was frustrated

okey sorry to waste your time but i need to ask
how does changing this Volumetric efficiency change the behavior of the engine?
Old 11-02-2021 | 09:36 AM
  #124  
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Right so summing up Ve is basically the ratio of air/fuel mixture the engine can suck in during intake stroke at atmospheric pressure (naturally aspirated). So increasing(forced induction) or decreasing the Ve will increase or decrease the engines power output.
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Old 11-02-2021 | 10:07 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by sonicsdaman
Right so summing up Ve is basically the ratio of air/fuel mixture the engine can suck in during intake stroke at atmospheric pressure (naturally aspirated). So increasing(forced induction) or decreasing the Ve will increase or decrease the engines power output.
So you can raise the VE by using FI and this will increase the power.
But what is the purpose of the map that you can edit? In the case of FI, does telling the ECU via this table change anything or will editing it have no effect?
And does it "comunicate" with the MAF sensor to calculate how much air is going into the engine?
Or is it just a "information" sheet to tell you how much bar you get at NA?
I am really sorry for all these questions but with the knowlage i have at the moment i dont understand what the purpose of it is.
And i really want to understand it so i would really appreciate if you could help me out. ^^

Last edited by Witi; 11-02-2021 at 12:43 PM.


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