How does initating a new flash work?
10-09-2015 | 03:00 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
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From: Apple Valley, MN
How does initating a new flash work?
I'll admit that I haven't put in a lot of reading time yet but after watching videos like this where they make logging look really easy, I'm wondering why I can't take a similar home made setup to interface with the ODBII and modify it as a tuning device. Is there something inherently complicated about initiating the reflash? It seems like the available hardware has come a long way since people started tuning the RX8 and that It should be VERY cheap to accomplish this kind of tuning solution. I'm a open-souce linux guy so maybe I'm just being too optimistic with my lack of ODBII experience.
10-09-2015 | 04:07 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
Likes: 1
From: Apple Valley, MN
I am familiar with that combo of products. I'm talking even cheaper than that. What is the MazdaEdit software or OpenPort adapter doing to initiate the reflash? Why does there need to be a processor on the adapter if we can do everything cheaper on either a laptop or a micro computer like the Raspberry Pi. Integrating with a small computer could open up the possiblity of a very cheap tuning solution as well as other neat functionality like sending logs to your network computer/server automatically when it connects to wifi when you get home. You could also interface the Pi with your stereo and use it for music... which could be loaded via wifi.
Last edited by Shnifty; 10-09-2015 at 04:12 PM.
10-09-2015 | 05:30 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
Likes: 1
From: Apple Valley, MN
What it comes down to is ODB "hacking" and I can't seem to find detailed info about sending a new map to the ECU. Is Mazda doing something in the ECU that is making it more difficult to use or have we just not had enough ODB nerds look at it? Have the people at COBB and MazdaEdit completely reverse engineered the hex data from a proprietary protocol or something?
Here is a list of ODB protocols in Mazda cars. Anyone familiar with this kind of stuff?
ECU Reflashing - DeepThoughts Engineering
Here is a list of ODB protocols in Mazda cars. Anyone familiar with this kind of stuff?
ECU Reflashing - DeepThoughts Engineering
Code:
used in Mazda's produced after 1996 Pin Signal Description 2 J1850 Bus+ 3 LS CAN Hi Low speed (125Kb) CAN bus. This bus used for some IC, RFA and other units. 4 CGND Chassis ground 5 SGND Signal ground 6 CAN High J-2284 7 K-LINE Diagnostic, (ISO 9141-2 and ISO/DIS 14230-4) 10 J1850 Bus- 11 LS CAN Low Low speed (125Kb) CAN bus. This bus used for some IC, RFA and other units. 14 CAN Low J-2284 15 ISO 9141-2 L-LINE Diagnostic, (ISO 9141-2 and ISO/DIS 14230-4) 16 +12v Battery power Mazda OBD-2 compatibility list Note that list is not 100% complete! Model Engine Year (starting from) OBD-2 Protocol Mazda 121 1,25 liter, Gasoline (100 HP) 1995 PWM J1850 Mazda 2 Gasoline (74 HP) 2008 CAN Mazda 323 Gasoline (97 HP) 2001 ISO 9141-2 2, Gasoline (130HP) 2001 ISO 9141 Gasoline (92 HP) 2003 - Gasoline (97 HP) 2001 Mazda 6 Diesel (120 HP) 2003 Diesel (135 HP) 2005 CAN Gasoline (127 HP) 2005 Gasoline (135 HP) 2005 CAN Diesel (135 HP) 2005 CAN Diesel (135 HP) 2005 CAN Gasoline (164 HP) 2003 2.0 MZR CD, Diesel (136HP) 2003 CAN 11bit (500kb) 2.0 MZR CD, Diesel (120HP) 2006 CAN 11bit (500kb) 2, Diesel (143HP) 2006 CAN 11bit (500kb) Diesel MZR 2.0, Diesel (128 HP) 2007 Mazda 626 2.0 16V, Gasoline (114 HP) 2001 ISO 14230-4, ISO 9141-2 Mazda B2300 2002 PWM J1850 Mazda B2500SE Pickup 2001 PWM J1850 Mazda B3000 2002 PWM J1850 Mazda BT50 2.5 MRZ-CD, Diesel (130HP) 2007 CAN 11bit (500kb) Mazda 2 1.4, Diesel (68HP) 2007 CAN 11bit (500kb) 1.3 MZR, Gasoline (86HP) 2009 CAN 11bit (500kb) Mazda 3 1.6 MZCD, Diesel (110HP) 2004 CAN 11bit (500kb) Gasoline (74 HP) 2005 CAN Mazda 5 2.0 MZ-CD, Diesel (110HP) 2006 CAN 11bit (500kb) CRD, Diesel (145HP) 2007 CAN 11bit (500kb) 1.8L, Gasoline (114 HP) 2006 CAN 1.6 MZR-CD, Diesel (110HP) 2011 CAN 11bit (500kb) Mazda MX-5 Gasoline (109 HP) 2001 ISO 14230-4 1.8L, Gasoline (126HP) 2006 CAN 11bit (500kb) Mazda MX-5 (Australian) 2003 ISO 14230-4, ISO 9141-2 Mazda MX-5 (Miata) 2003 ISO 14230-4, ISO 9141-2 Mazda MX5 NB Gasoline (139 HP) 2000 Gasoline (113 HP) 2003 ISO 9141-2 Mazda MX-5 NC Gasoline (128 HP) 2007 CAN Mazda MX-5 NC1 Gasoline (159 HP) 2006 CAN Mazda MX5NB FL Gasoline (114 HP) 2004 ISO 14230-4, ISO 9141-2 Mazda Protege 2001 ISO 14230-4, ISO 9141-2 Gasoline (108 HP) 2000 Mazda Protege 5 2002 ISO 14230-4, ISO 9141-2 Mazda RX8 1308 cm3, Gasoline (192HP) 2003 CAN 11bit (500kb) 2.6, Gasoline (231HP) 2004 CAN 11bit (500kb) Gasoline (228 HP) 2003 CAN Gasoline (190 HP) 2005 Mazda Tribute 2002 PWM J1850 Protocols used: 1996-2002 : ISO-9141 2002-2005 : ISO-9141 or CAN after 2005 : CAN Mazda (Ford) used J1850-PWM mostly.
Last edited by Shnifty; 10-09-2015 at 05:46 PM.
10-09-2015 | 08:43 PM
#5
The Mazda ECU file has a certificate of sorts that must be submitted before it will allow a ECU dump / upload.
Peeps like epifan (mazdaedit) and Cobb (accessTuner Race) figured out how to crack Mazda's code.
Trust me, its far easier to just pay the money for a copy of MEP and an open Port.
Peeps like epifan (mazdaedit) and Cobb (accessTuner Race) figured out how to crack Mazda's code.
Trust me, its far easier to just pay the money for a copy of MEP and an open Port.
10-09-2015 | 09:23 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
Likes: 1
From: Apple Valley, MN
The Mazda ECU file has a certificate of sorts that must be submitted before it will allow a ECU dump / upload.
Peeps like epifan (mazdaedit) and Cobb (accessTuner Race) figured out how to crack Mazda's code.
Trust me, its far easier to just pay the money for a copy of MEP and an open Port.
Peeps like epifan (mazdaedit) and Cobb (accessTuner Race) figured out how to crack Mazda's code.
Trust me, its far easier to just pay the money for a copy of MEP and an open Port.
I guess I'm a fan of the open-source business model where the product is free and you pay for support.
10-11-2015 | 11:34 AM
#8
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From: Boosted...
I already have an accessport so It's not about easy at this point. After the crappy driver/firmware support from cobb and there being only one other popular option(mazdaedit), I'm in it for the movement. I dunno, Maybe I'll lose interest in a week or two but I'm pretty confident that If I could figure out the certificate/CAN communication stuff somehow, I could throw together a linux solution for the rest. We're talking $10 dollars for a ODB-II adapter and free software to get reflashing capabilities. I could put together a Raspberry Pi Carputer with the bluetooth adapter for under $100.
I guess I'm a fan of the open-source business model where the product is free and you pay for support.
I guess I'm a fan of the open-source business model where the product is free and you pay for support.
A VM ECU to "flash" would then be possible, and if we could get the ability to run a virtual ECU on a live engine,"hot swapped" it would be awesome.
Then... a virtual-box laptop running your car and switching live control of the engine between virtual ECUs and the car ECU for different performance modes .
Last edited by Rote8; 10-11-2015 at 11:36 AM.
10-12-2015 | 12:14 AM
#9
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I will love to see this going somewhere as well as find a way to reprogram the TCM which I need right now for the High Performance AT I'm getting built for my 20B Rx-8. There is TCM software for a lot of cars around including Mazda 6 MPV but not for Rx-8 which is frustrating. Same with this ECU issues that the other brands have already resolve and had left us behind.
10-12-2015 | 10:52 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
Likes: 1
From: Apple Valley, MN
How about a Raspberry Pi running the as an ECU replacement on a Mazda flash???
A VM ECU to "flash" would then be possible, and if we could get the ability to run a virtual ECU on a live engine,"hot swapped" it would be awesome.
Then... a virtual-box laptop running your car and switching live control of the engine between virtual ECUs and the car ECU for different performance modes .
A VM ECU to "flash" would then be possible, and if we could get the ability to run a virtual ECU on a live engine,"hot swapped" it would be awesome.
Then... a virtual-box laptop running your car and switching live control of the engine between virtual ECUs and the car ECU for different performance modes .
10-12-2015 | 10:54 AM
#11
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
Likes: 1
From: Apple Valley, MN
I will love to see this going somewhere as well as find a way to reprogram the TCM which I need right now for the High Performance AT I'm getting built for my 20B Rx-8. There is TCM software for a lot of cars around including Mazda 6 MPV but not for Rx-8 which is frustrating. Same with this ECU issues that the other brands have already resolve and had left us behind.
Last edited by Shnifty; 10-12-2015 at 11:08 AM.
10-12-2015 | 12:03 PM
#12
I imagine we could use portmon if under the covers the OpenPort presents itself to Windows as a COM port.
In doing so we could record a couple flash sessions through MEP and see the data going across the wire.
The AccessPORT likely does similarly.
In my MEP logs you see it:
1. Erase firmware
2. Request Challenge from ECU
3. Challenge ECU
4. Upload the new firmware in chunks
In doing so we could record a couple flash sessions through MEP and see the data going across the wire.
The AccessPORT likely does similarly.
In my MEP logs you see it:
1. Erase firmware
2. Request Challenge from ECU
3. Challenge ECU
4. Upload the new firmware in chunks
10-12-2015 | 12:46 PM
#13
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
Likes: 1
From: Apple Valley, MN
Good idea ShellDude. I'm going to try portmon and see what I can find.
Also, I found this thread to be somewhat informative: openecu.org ? View topic - RX8 Flash Protocol
Here is another one: http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=25&t=6303
Down the rabbit hole I go!
Also, I found this thread to be somewhat informative: openecu.org ? View topic - RX8 Flash Protocol
Here is another one: http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=25&t=6303
Down the rabbit hole I go!
Last edited by Shnifty; 10-12-2015 at 12:56 PM.
10-14-2015 | 01:50 AM
#15
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
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From: Apple Valley, MN
One really promising thing is that I've come across some projects that seem to imply that you can turn a micro-controller running linux into J2534 protocol compliant pass-through device which is what does the flashing. For example:
https://github.com/jeremyhahn/ecutoo...r/pass-through
This would replace the need to buy a pre-built device like the openport.
I'm not a C programmer yet but I'm going to look into it as much as possible. Unfortunately I have a lot of work to do before I'm familiar enough with any of these protocols to make something worthwhile.
Can anyone provide known protocols/electronics that we are dealing with on an RX8?
Flashing Passthrough: J2534
CAN: ?
ECU: Hitachi SuperH processor by Renesas
SH7055 "64F7055F40"
10-14-2015 | 09:32 AM
#18
Look at it like basic serial port level support.
10-14-2015 | 12:35 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
Likes: 1
From: Apple Valley, MN
I'm aware of that. The point is that it's possible for a small cheap carputer to do flash tuning on top of whatever else you want it to do if an application is written for it accordingly.
10-14-2015 | 04:27 PM
#20
Last edited by ShellDude; 10-14-2015 at 04:46 PM.
10-19-2015 | 03:06 PM
#22
Thread Starter
Is Nifty
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
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From: Apple Valley, MN
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