How Kane Tunes an FI Renesis - Turbo, Ported, Ceramic Seals
#301
Banned
iTrader: (3)
Generally, 9° - 11° or so at the torque peak with 350 g/sec or more (9PSI and above on most FI systems) is all you need.
There isn't more power to be made above that at the highest flame-front speeds.
Of course, adjustments will be made if the flame front is slowed by leaner/richer AFRs at the same load.
I've seen 16° there and it was essentially the same output.
What I have found, however, is that later than 5° causes a fairly fast drop in power and anything close to TDC or less can actually cause detonation.
#303
Whose ecu? Mine
I provided the map on the RX7 club http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=876250
Did a good deal of disassembly on 8bit (FD and cosmo) and the 16bit ecu.
#304
What was your source for this map? I'm not sure that this is the stock FD ign map. It's not aligning with what I'm seeing from the ICD (integrated circuit debugger).
Perhaps I've done something wrong.
#310
i had my laugh for the day...
#311
I've disassembled the firmware (D8/mcu - 6800 family) and its nothing even remotely close to "modified alpha-n" in fact the TPS input (narrow or wide) doesn't contribute much to the final pulse width. It's actually very simple how it works.. the main input running to the tpu are ign, map, o2 & knock. the rest are sampled at other rates. we simply dont need 40 samples of tps per second as where the latter we would.
in the main code loop, all it does is grabs data from specific addresses (ign input, knock, etc) and run those input values through their respective conversion routines (raw into their UoM) and calls a few lookup tables for compensation maps (injector deadtimes for example) and adds that to the main ign and main fuel values. Once thats it, it'll shove those over to the proper pin(s) to turn on the injectors for X amount of times.
there are ZERO calcs for grams of air or any attempts at converting MAP to volume/density. all it does its blindly reads from a 3D table (fuel or ign) with a few values pushed onto the stack (mostly MAP & IGN but coolant temp shows up a lot).
The Denso code (HC16) works very close to the same - in fact a lot of those ECU's I've looked at have very similar looking code. I think Denso has a basic operating system for vehicles and probably tailored it to meet the vehicles requirements.
I based on that on the other SD setup's I've looked at and their routines are, byte for byte, the same in respect to calcing the fuel and ign values.
point is, i have spent a long, long time disassembling the firmware and the G5 (working as a multiplexer) ...it is surely isn't "modified alpha-n";
Here is a quick screen cap from IDA (two in fact) that shows loading the primary inputs (sensors) and how crudely the ECU determines to add / subtract fuel based on the O2 input.
For those who are paying attention, RAW.O2 is the measurement of the voltage read in and SENSOR.O2 is the converted value for the ECU to use in the fuel calcs. its also the value that it spits out when requested via diagnostics channel/port.
btw, my o2 code does read 0v - 5v ...it hasn't seen a narrow band sensor in a loooong time.
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..but then again, what do i know?
![Bootyshake](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/bootyshake.gif)
#313
Banned
iTrader: (3)
The logged ignition output essentially is the commanded value directly from the ignition table.
Is your entire self-justification for your existence entirely predicated on demonstrating at every possible opportunity what a complete moron you are?
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 12-29-2011 at 03:23 AM.
#314
so again, I'm asking you, where are you getting this information from?
I'm honestly not attempting to make you look bad here but I can prove the stuff you've said so far doesn't even remotely align with the assembly/code/firmware.
Maybe you were not part of capturing those values and you, personally, really need those to be as close to factory as possible but I can assure you - they are not.
if converted to 3D, they look nothing like the maps I yanked from the 2rotor and 3rotor ecus. So even from a visual point of view - they're not close.
So I'm asking, how did you come to think those values are "commanded directly from the ignition table"? (btw, why are you saying 'commanded'? thats a silly word to use to describe the many routines the code jumps through to calc the final value ... just sayin').
#315
Relax baby!
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Now he is going to change again what he saying because he have no clue , im telling you he fails at everything he do. He dont know where he leave his head every day.
#316
Banned
iTrader: (3)
I didn't really do much "science" here - I observed nominal values for IAT and ECT and ran the engine on a DynoPack dyno while capturing the crank-referenced ignition events.
Much of the high-load areas were identical run after run, even as the ECT started to climb (to a point). It is mainly the part-throttle stuff that took some time to find stable, load-related values.
Since I am not a code-junky, I'm not really mentally equipped to hack the ROMs, so captured logs is the best way for me to do it.
We did the same thing with an MR-2 and a first-gen turbo Probe that week. We just needed to understand the factory baselines.
Last I checked, my head was in your mouth.
#318
I'm curious, how do you know that? The coolant sensor, O2, knock and air temp sensors play a pretty big factor on the overall value of ign.
if converted to 3D, they look nothing like the maps I yanked from the 2rotor and 3rotor ecus. So even from a visual point of view - they're not close.
if converted to 3D, they look nothing like the maps I yanked from the 2rotor and 3rotor ecus. So even from a visual point of view - they're not close.
While I don't have the experience that you two have (cracking\programming and tuning respectively) I think that it is fair to say that the ign values are the main culprit along with fuelling, the other values can be treated as circumstancial "modifiers".
Where you really see many factors playing an important role together is our ecu.
With that said, for tuning purposes what the "base" maps are doesn't matter that much in my opinion. Knowing what the actually used maps (after interpolation or "routines" as you call them) are is what matters.
We could all run an engine in a controlled environment without the need to even add those additional routines, however that would be fairly impractical when trying to determine what an engine really needs in road going conditions.
I guess we could say that it is one of the few cases where we get the problem solved backwards. We need to know what really happens before moving back to the science and see what "should" (base map) happen.
What do you think?
#320
I'm sorry to jump into this discussion but I think that saying that the coolant sensor, o2, knock and iat play a "big" factor may be a bit of a stretch.
While I don't have the experience that you two have (cracking\programming and tuning respectively) I think that it is fair to say that the ign values are the main culprit along with fuelling, the other values can be treated as circumstancial "modifiers".
Where you really see many factors playing an important role together is our ecu.
With that said, for tuning purposes what the "base" maps are doesn't matter that much in my opinion. Knowing what the actually used maps (after interpolation or "routines" as you call them) are is what matters.
We could all run an engine in a controlled environment without the need to even add those additional routines, however that would be fairly impractical when trying to determine what an engine really needs in road going conditions.
I guess we could say that it is one of the few cases where we get the problem solved backwards. We need to know what really happens before moving back to the science and see what "should" (base map) happen.
What do you think?
While I don't have the experience that you two have (cracking\programming and tuning respectively) I think that it is fair to say that the ign values are the main culprit along with fuelling, the other values can be treated as circumstancial "modifiers".
Where you really see many factors playing an important role together is our ecu.
With that said, for tuning purposes what the "base" maps are doesn't matter that much in my opinion. Knowing what the actually used maps (after interpolation or "routines" as you call them) are is what matters.
We could all run an engine in a controlled environment without the need to even add those additional routines, however that would be fairly impractical when trying to determine what an engine really needs in road going conditions.
I guess we could say that it is one of the few cases where we get the problem solved backwards. We need to know what really happens before moving back to the science and see what "should" (base map) happen.
What do you think?
Dude, just stop. you're in way over your head here.
#324
No respecter of malarkey
iTrader: (25)
yeah, just in case you forgot after all this time ![Lol2](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol2.gif)
![Lol2](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/lol2.gif)
Well now is as good a time as any to start this thread off.
First A Few Caveats
* I am using the Hymee Pro Tuner Software
* I am logging / monitoring with the Hymee Live USB
* I have a second Wideband O2 for a reality check against stock
* I have a log-able Fuel Pressure Gauge with a peak and low FP warning light - this way I can log if I have any dips in Fuel Pressure while boosting.
* My motor is a ported, 1 Piece ceramic sealed engine - so your results may vary... the biggest drawback I've seen is just low idle speeds cause sealing issues (which is why Mazda went with a 2 piece seal in the first place).
* I have 189 Miles on the new engine to date.
* I am using the AEM air intake MAF housing along with a custom CAI set-up
* My turbo is the GT3071R
* All calculations and tuning is being done in Baseline my custom tuning software... so good bad or ugly I am going to attempt to tune this entire car scientifically.
First A Few Caveats
* I am using the Hymee Pro Tuner Software
* I am logging / monitoring with the Hymee Live USB
* I have a second Wideband O2 for a reality check against stock
* I have a log-able Fuel Pressure Gauge with a peak and low FP warning light - this way I can log if I have any dips in Fuel Pressure while boosting.
* My motor is a ported, 1 Piece ceramic sealed engine - so your results may vary... the biggest drawback I've seen is just low idle speeds cause sealing issues (which is why Mazda went with a 2 piece seal in the first place).
* I have 189 Miles on the new engine to date.
* I am using the AEM air intake MAF housing along with a custom CAI set-up
* My turbo is the GT3071R
* All calculations and tuning is being done in Baseline my custom tuning software... so good bad or ugly I am going to attempt to tune this entire car scientifically.