WaterLogged

Well I finally got around to playing with the CZ and custom tuning after accidentally wiping out the default Stage 1 map without a backup. I got the Sept13 half-rpm map from Maurice and uploaded it to the CZ just fine. One problem, though. My CANSCAN readings, butt dyno, AND Gtech are telling me something's not quite right.

According to the CANSCAN, no matter what map I upload to the CZ the ignition acts like the factory settings and tops out at 30 in the higher RPM ranges. Also, according to the Gtech I'm getting consitently 10-15 hp less.

I did some CANSCAN logs when I first got the CZ and things looked consistent with Jason Hamilton's un-tuned findings.

Anyone got any ideas where I should go next?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The CanScan wont show any changes that occur via the CZ box because those changes are implemented after the PCM acts.

WaterLogged

You sure? My graphs/figures for both AFR and advance had two totally different signatures before and after the CZ installation. This would lead me to believe that the canscan noticed the changes.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

What you were seeing was the PCM compensating for the changes in airflow with timing.
The CZ intercepts the ignition signals on their way to the coils, after the PCM outputs.

Yes, I'm am certain.

WaterLogged

So it's normal to see the ignition at 30 deg. advance in the higher rpms no matter what map I load to the CZ?

Sorry, I'm confused.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

For the most part. The PCM will pull some timing in a few RPM ranges and you should actually see more than 30° in some places. I've seen 38° to 40° here and there.
At the torque peak, you should see timing as low as 13°.
This will be unaffected by the CZ/E-Manage until you have a knock event or something similar that causes the PCM to pull timing or if the CZ pulls enough airflow to put the PCM in a different position in the OEM tuning maps.

WaterLogged

I'll bet that's what's happening then. I suspect the CZ maps that I've been using are causing knock/ping. That would explain the extreme difference in HP as well.

I guess the next question is where do I go from here in tuning? Right now I've got the thing running all zeros for both advance and airflow adjustment until I figure this out. I'd like to bring the AFR to a steady high 12 or low 13. I understand pretty much how to adjust airflow and its effect on the AFR, but as far as ignition goes I'm clueless. Do airflow and ignition work hand in hand? Or can you adjust one and not the other?

I'm thinking this weekend I'll try to start with the stage1 ignition map (to be safe) and zero out all airflow adjustments. Would this be the way you'd approach it?

BTW, I really appreciate your patience and help with this. There's so many discussions going on around these forums that a search for answers to these questions are hard to find and somewhat disjointed. If you're ever in the St. Louis area I'll buy you a beer to show my appreciation!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I'd start with airflow and leave the ignition timing alone at first.
The stock ignition maps are dependant on load which is determined by TPS, RPM, coolant temp, air intake temp and airflow. You can't do much about it directly.
Get the A/F at WOT where you want it with the airflow adjustments and let it stabilize over a few days.
Then, you can start adding some timing where you think it might be beneficial, though few have actually seen any real benefit from adding ignition timing. In fact, you might even find some power at the torque and HP peaks by retarding timing a few degrees.