rotorocks

Team,
I just thought to start this topic because there seem to be more and more people who are getting their Turbo and SC installed or simply switching to Int-X to gain more control of their vehicles, but it looks like everyone tends to keep their tunes to themselves.

I think this tread would be helpful to everyone using or planning to use the Int-X. Maybe even good enough to be a sticky?

Please take some time to get screens of your maps to share your tunes, and if you know a thing or two about tuning, then feel free to elaborate on why you changed this or that value and how it affects the overall engine operation.

Here is my more or less recent tune:

Map Specifics: Matrix Mode, Stock Fuel System, Turbo. http://www.doonno.com/Tuning_maps.doc

rotorocks

here is an interesting read I found about setting up the injector staging with Int-X. Coming directly from the man behind the magic himself: RXENG of the Microtech. http://www.microtechefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3

Now I finally begin to understand it.
Hope it helps

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Ryan put up his tune a while back. So did MadDog. Mine was up as well.
What kind of data are you looking for?

rotorocks

1. Trying to understand the reason behind the staging setup as it is provided by mazsport. Why it is thought to be superior?
2. Trying to come up with as good of a tune as possible for a stock FS
3. Want to share my findings as I go along.

At this point, I just sort of poke around with nothing specific in mind.
My car runs OK as is, but still, there is room for improvement and i want to figure out what I can do to make it better. So I keep tinkering with it.
People might have put their tunes up, but they are scattered and hard to find. That is why i started this tread on this board.
Can't get any closer to the topic than this. Can you?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

OK. So here is the full compliment of pics of my last tune with the Int-X.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

more

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

and more

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

some more

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

and the last

rotorocks

Thanks.
Is it from your "...Observations" tread?
I know it is there somewhere, but still can you specify what injector sizes you are/were running with it?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I don't remember if those are the same pics from that thread. I'm pretty sure these are the last maps I was using, however.
This is with the original injector staging and ~480cc injectors in the P2 holes (still have ~390cc in the sec and ~290cc in the pri).

rotorocks

I've spent a day tuning my new map with re-staged injectors.
the difference is simply amazing. the car is unbelievably smooth, and pulls so strong, It is hard to even compare it to what it was when i used the original staging.

Here is what I had done:

I had changed the "firing"" function to "Sequential", then went to the staging functions and set the rev_stg to 500 rpm.
Then I changed the map_stg to OFF. This makes the both the primaries and the secondary injectors function at the same time, full time. The %stage is irrelevant at this point i believe, as at the time the secondaries come in, everything defaults to full capacity which means that the primaries and the secondaries are open the same amount of time and they function as one gang. Kinda like one big set rather than two smaller.
Off course I had to completely redo the fuel map, but now the car is a whole different animal.

There is no more issue of "when the boost comes". it is just no longer "comes" the car progressively accelerates, as the pressure moves from vac to boost without any difference whatsoever. Once you stomp the pedal, it just zooms up to the red line in one smooth and uninterrupted pull. No jerks, no boggles, no hesitations. I can hold my gas pedal, and keep the car in 1-2-3 PSI range all day long, and it will make absolutely no difference. It doesn't go lean, and then suddenly rich. it just does exactly what the map says.
The only issue I still experience, is rather rich idles. But it has always been an issue. In this case instead of running in mid to high 12AF, it is now running in 11.3 - 11.5. Any leaner, and it begins to stall.
On the positive side, I no longer experience jumping idles, when the AC comes on or off. Idles are very steady and smooth.
Another thing i run into (and i an working out a solution for this): When I just slightly tap the gas, just to slightly (very slightly) accelerate, the the AF momentarily goes lean causing a small stumble. It is especially noticeable in low RPM. 1500 to 3500 range. It only lasts for a moment and then as the pressure rises in the manifold, the AF catches up, but still, it is something I wanted to address. I believe this can be fixed by adjusting the Pump 1 and 2 functions to fire bursts of fuel earlier on. While i haven't touched the Pump 1, I had changed the Pump 2 to engage at as early as 1500 RPM and set the trigger point to 6 instead of 14 or so as it was. This have helped a lot, but did not fix the issue entirely. I need to play more with the trigger point and amount of fuel supplied when the Map2 occurs, as well as the burst duration.
I would really like to hear from other experienced tuners and MazsprtScott if they have any comments/suggestions on this approach. It seems like it works really well for me, but I am only learning, and I am wide open to feedback.
OK, it is late now. I'll post more as I progress, and off course the screens will be coming soon also.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

You will be able to tune the idle into the high 12, low 13 range but it will take a lot of very careful work.
You need to change the 10, 15, 20 and 25 ranges all at the same time by only one click and then adjust the slope of that part of the curve to get the transition right.

11:1 at idle must really make your eyes water!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

It could, though I never saw the benefit in changing the injector staging when I was running the Int-X because I didn't have any transitional stumbles or lean spots.
However, switching to matrix mode is a must.
Once the install is finalized, I'll set up a time with Phil to completely tune the Int-X.
It makes sense to get all of the plumbing right first.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

BTW - I'd remind those that are reading this thread to refer to https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/interceptor-x-experiences-observations-mazdamaniac-101869/ where most of this has already been discussed.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

That's what I'm all about.

rotorocks

This is only applicable to stock fuel systems. If you run upgraded injectors, there is no need for this type of tune, I presume. The enlarged primaries will have the necessary capacity to handle the flow at high engine speeds. On stock fuel system however, the injectors (when staged sequentially) do get overloaded, and at times operate at maximum or near maximum flow capacity.
With this setup, the amount of fuel needed is divided into the two sets of injectors all the time instead of being pushed into one set, and then based on conditions into another.
Practical benefits are:
In order to provide fuel to the engine at 8PSI at 5000 RPM, If I am not mistaken, now the pulse width is in the area if high 4/low 5 ms and runs too rich, yielding 10 AF. A nice responsive 11.5 + (is what I like to run in that area) will put the injector open time into probably 4.6 ms area if not lower.
On MM tune, the same area required over 8 ms open time, and on my original tune it was in the area of 7ms. This is a very big difference.

With 8 ms pulse width ( Approaching, but not really pushing the max recommended open time for the injectors if I am not mistaken) Enough fuel can be flown to provide a good 14 psi or close to it, in my estimates.

Since i personally never intend to run more than 12 PSI ever. This effectively solves my need of the injectors upgrade. I need to upgrade only the pump at this point, which is relatively inexpensive mod, compare to the the entire FS.

mysql101

I don't know if you're picking 5000 rpm at random, but on many tunes it's richer there intentionally.

rotorocks

Totally at random.

This is about just above the point where it stops misfiring on mine. I like to run 13 at 1-2 PSI in low to mid range RPM then gradually coming down to 10.5 when closer to the red line. However due to the nature of my setup, my O2 sensor is positioned pre-turbo. This may cause the actual numbers be lower than what is read.

rotorocks

Finally I Got the idles running leaner.
Before I could not get them to run above 11, now it idles at 11.7 with AC, and above 12 with no AC. ( I used MM suggestion ^^ to take off fuel 1 click at a time across from -25 to - 10 on IDLE and at 1000 RPM. Interesting, that sometimes, even though the pressure is showing to be dead in the -20hg taking fuel on it does not accomplish the needed result, but taking a bit on -25 and -15 changes the AF to the desired figure.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

^^ Welcome to the world of the Microtech.
It lies about injector timing, it lies about temperature and it lies about load cell granularity.
Since you are in matrix mode, you have eliminated the overlap of the load and idle/aux maps, which is good. It may be worth noting to those that haven't switched to matrix mode that, despite the "idle" indication, the load map still affects fuel delivery in the idle ranges!

rotorocks

I played with the idles some more today.
With the earlier tune, even though it idles at 12, whenever i decelerated to a stop, the idles would go down to like 10, and then within 10-15 seconds recovered back up. I didn't like that.
Also firing 4 injectors all at once in idles, even a single step up or down made too big of a difference. Coarse.

I found a fix to that:
1. rev_stage set to 1180 rpm
2. %stage I set to 99% .
3. Re-tuned the Idles and the 1000 rpm range so it is stable and doesn't jump with AF at around 10 running with AC and without.
4. AC enrich = 0
5. Went back to the %stage and started gradually decreasing the % from 99 down, while watching the AF ratios.

at a %stage = 0 I got it to run without dying at 14-15 range, but it run crappy. It constantly jumped from 880 to 1060 RPM and back. I ended up having a stable 12.9 - 13.5 at around +5% on %stage.

Please note, because the amount of fuel is so little at idles, I found that the car would not start. Raising the crank map values to around 60% when at or near the operating temperatures and by about additional 15% everywhere else took care of the starting problem.

Al in all a very satisfying tune it turned out to be.
It runs very smoothly. There is a noticeable increase in the torque while accelerating in vacuum. If I get a chance, I'll take the screenshots and post the new map sometimes tomorrow.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

To rich on return to idle from decel - lean out the -25 range a bit more.

rotorocks

That is what I did originally, but with all injectors firing, it was either too rich, or too lean. Too great of a step. Taking the secondaries out of the equation fixed that. Now the step up or down changes the AF by a fraction of a point rather than the whole point or more.
And keeping the secondaries switch-on point just a little higher than where the engine is idling, makes it a smooth transition.

turborx8

iTrader: (1)

I thought I could learn this tuning software but now that I have the int-x installed, I find it downright scary. lol

I swear to god I live in the wrong country. Nobody here knows how to use the MicroTech software so I am stuck with Scott's 93 octane base map @ 6.5psi.

My idle is too rich, (10.5-11) and I have some lean spots while accelerating slowly in vaccum (16.5-17.5 @ 4,000 rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear )

Are there any easy things I can do myself to improve things? I thought by ordering the wideband o2 sensor kit by Mazsport for the int-x that it would make it easier for me to street tune.