BRx8

at this point it would probably be pretty impossible to do a search on this topic so i'll just ask it since i haven't seen one:

has no one seriously dynoed their cars with the Stage 1.1 + L flash yet? there has to be someone with the numbers and/or graphs out here...

thanks in advance, sorry for being lazy

Lufa

Nope, we have been waiting for months... noticed my April fools thread was deleted from here proclaiming to have the dyno .

He has been shipping a while now with the new maps for the L, no one knows what kind of results are being produced outside of "it feels faster", and a video overlay showing the tach hitting redline faster.

I still check everyday however .

adrian-1

My CZ stage 1 is scheduled to arrive tommorrow as per FedEX.

I do not have plans to do a dyno anytime soon, but I do have a Gtech Pro for before/after runs and can compare the horsepower increase in 2nd gear. Although, CZ had to use different maps for each gear so I'll only be able to see the gains for 2nd gear. Gains could be more/less in the other gears.

I'm also planning on going back to the dragstrip this weekend. My stock+borla 1/4 mile time was 15.0sec ,
I'll post my results shortly afterwards.

Roadrunner

Why has there been no performance data provided by Canzoomer or any indenpendant sources on Stage 1 vs Baseline L/M Flash?

Lufa

My only guesses at this point are:

1) The numbers are lower than advertised.
2) The numbers are not as good as they were, and keeping the old dyno helps to sucker in new buyers who do not research.
3) Everyone who states they will post dyno results gets abducted by aliens on the way back from the Dyno
4) Never got around to it (even though they said they would a couple months ago).
5) Apathy, because it's selling at or above expetations.

Speed Racer

Or he has recently found a better way to extract data from the ECU and is now hard at work improving the fuel maps again.

DisneyDestroyer

How about:

5b) Tired, because it's selling at or above expectations and they're so busy getting new products out and flashing previous products up to 1.1 that they don't have time.

Hmmmmm

brothervoodoo

One of the main reasons you are not seeing third party dyno results may be due to the difficulty of getting a proper dyno without going into limp mode. The majority of the cars sold are Touring or GT models with DSC/TCS. I've seen it myself, even after fully turning off DCS and TCS you will still get an ABS light indicator soon after you start rolling on the dyno. Canzoomer and possibly Hymee detailed a procedure that involves pulling the ABS sensors from the back wheels which gives you limited window to do a run or two. If the ABS goes off then you'll have to unstrap the car from the dyno, put the sensors back-in, run the car for awhile and strap her in again all this time still paying for the dyno session. You probably will spend more time getting the car back to normal than actually getting data on the dyno. I also see your point regarding the lack of data coming out of the CZ camp as of late.

rx8miami

that being said, why are there so many posts of the gt models with dsc/tcs dynos with their respective 170-172 hp pull? why didn't they have that abs sensor problem? listen i'm not being cynical but how often do you here the abs story with the stick dyno? i have heard it but not as often as the folks that have installed stage 1/2/3.

brothervoodoo

I can only respond to what I saw, a GT model on a dyno without a CZ piggyback and the ABS was blinkin threw the entire test and it did post what you indicated ~170's.

238/170 equals a 28.5% parasitic loss, kinda high. Gtec runs seem to indicate more power than 170rwhp even though the dyno's seem to give a lower reading. Most seem to think this is do to some type of "limp mode" on the dyno.

rx8miami

i have heard it. canzoomer seems to run g-tech often since dynos are apprently of a rare breed in his area i suppose.

zoom44

easy the DID have problems. i dont know of any person who has dyno'd withotu problems. i watched 3 each do 3 runs myself just a week ago and each one got slapped by the pcm. you can tell not only by what is going on on the dash but also by the graphs.

RX-8 friend

First, to dyno an RX-8, from instructions I posted long ago - drive onto rollers. Pull the rear ABS sensors (one bolt each) and tie them up out of the way. Switch off DSC (hold down switch until it is all the way off) and do your runs, limiting them to about 10 sec. each. Insert ABS sensors, drive off rollers, install bolts. If you plan on doing dynos frequently, put a very light film of waterproof grease on the sensors so they don't corrode into the hubs.

Why don't we do a dyno run? On what, this weeks map? Then next weeks? It costs roughly $60 to do each run. More importantly it costs 2-4 hrs. It's still a moving target so we're not interested in wasting that time. Besides, to be meaningfull you would have to do two runs - with the box on and off back to back - same temp. etc. Difficult to get accurate data that way as the car temp varies so much on the dyno. For now the G-Tech is good enough. Remember, we are only talking about 20-40 HP peak here. Well within the error range of Dynojet units.

Customers are welcome to do the tests if they like. We probably will once Maurice is satisfied he has taken it as far as he can in Stage 1 tune.

Lufa

Thanks for the feedback,

Stating that "tweaks are still in progress", is much better than saying, "yeah, we will post a post a dyno run next week", then still not have anything 2+ months later.

I know I am coming off like a jerk, but let us all know when you think Stage 1 is complete for M. I am sure that will be accompanied by posting some flash ROMs to the canzoomer site for everyone who already has the product.

Tuning can take forever and a day, especially when you are working on a "safe" mod like this one. If you were to assign a % complete to Stage one what would it be?

I realize stage II, III and the supercharger people are probably also being a drain on your resources, informing your adoring public shouldnt be such a chore.

I was not under the impression that stage one was not finalized, until I read your last post. I was under the impression that it was finished 2 months ago.

Anyhow, I will continue to pester you all until a dyno is published for a completed product.

Roadrunner

RX-Friend
Thanks for the update, Maurice sounds like a perfectionist, I look forward to any info about of additional tweaks to Stage 1 programing.


My curiosity on the performance had been elevated due to receiving my Stage 1 two weeks ago, and yet to be installed, I have been waiting for my dealer to finally get their WDS to a current level. I was apprehensive about running the Stage1 with pre M Level and also did not want to have the unit installed while Mazda would be performing updates.

The good news is my PCM was updated today, I plan on installing this evening.

If you think it agonizing waiting for a Stage 1 to ship, it is even worse having one and waiting for a dealer to finally get their their act together.

RX-8 friend

I suppose it's understandable you guys are impatient for data.

We have had three cars (that I know of) that have had problems with otherwise normal Stage 1 boxes. This has been troubling to us (not to mention the owners of the cars). We -suspect- there are marginal MAF sensors on those cars. That's the first problem we've been trying to address. BTW, those customers got or are getting their money back.

Problem number two has been the difference Maurice has been measuring between gears on the air/fuel the stock PCM outputs. This has caused us to modify the maps to much more conservative numbers. This also got us researching new ways of dealing with the air/fuel (using the same electronics for the most part). Hence, the redesign of the internal interface board so we have more future options.

Now Maurice has an OBDII reader. We finally have definitive stock timing numbers! Up to now it has been trial and error when creating a map. The timing is not measurable, and is set up and adjusted by the stock PCM on the fly. The OBDII reader tells us what the PCM is doing.

Today he got the "M" flash. Now his car doesn't idle very well! Humph! Problem three? At least the map works fine with the "M" flash. Stage 1 doesn't affect idle, so that's Mazda's fault. He'll probably fix it anyway.

So on it goes.

Speed Racer

Speaking of M flash, I just had my car updated today and with the Stage 1 installed the car accelerates better in the first three gears but in 4th and above the engine feels pretty lifeless.

Maybe this has to do with the calculated load and the Stage 1 not being currently setup to deal with the varying A/F ratios and timing changes that the ECU is spitting out. I'm not too worried about it because I'm sure that you and Maurice will figure it out with the help of the new OBD II reader.

Omicron

Um, wait a minute here.

So I sent my St1 back for a hardware upgrade, and it was returned to me recently. I also bought the upgrade cable/full programming kit so that I could load new maps as you guys came out with them. But now it sounds like I'm going to have to send it back yet again. Correct?

PhineasFellOff

Uh oh, Omicrons sounds pissed.

Omicron, is it really colder in the Rocky Mountains?

RX-8 friend

The changes we are currently making are an attempt to stabilize the unit when it's taken to Stage 2. We contantly improve it. I'm not sure what we will do re cost if someone wants to upgrade to current production. The first upgrade was free (shipping not included).

The units with the LEDs and "USB" port are still current - the changes we are currently making will not change the circuit - it just has a better switch layout and options for the future - if we ever need to use them. These changes can be done to your unit (I have done them to Maurice's unit so he can test them - his is the same as yours- the one with the LEDs and USB port). It's just the small PCB we are changing. The main unit is the same.

As for -using- the changes, we aren't yet. The units currently in production still use the same map and circuitry. Well, not quite. We have a different map that Maurice did last week. Minor changes from the one labled 5.1.1. I doubt anyone would notice the differences.

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

rx8 friend any updates on the map changes you are doing ?

RX-8 friend

Maurice is working on a new map tonight using the info from the OBDII setup. Not knowing what absolute timing advance the PCM was using made him conservative - hence people are noticing a bit less power. He intends to correct that tonight. The fact that some cars had problems with his previous maps also contributed to his conservatism.

We have also decided to remove the 2K2 resistors from the ignition board (small narrow PCB). They are at the bottom of the board (closest to the LED end of the unit) - color code red red red gold. If any of you feel brave go ahead and cut them off. They just load down the output to the coils, our attempt at duplicating the stock output. We think removing them will make the leading coils more heat resistant, as our box will then drive the coil transistor harder into saturation than stock, thus dissipating less heat, particularly when the coil is hot. Maurice has been running without them for over a week now, and Maniac has never had them, so it seems to be safe.

A note to consider, some owners have had coil failures, some with our box, most without. Be sure you leave the engine cover on when it's hot out. It is supposed to help remove heat from the engine compartment. I would be tempted to try to improve the side vent openings if it's possible, as well. If I owned an RX-8, that is.

mqandil

Rx-8 look forward to see the new map. I oerdered the USB cable, and hopefully it will come soon. Where does Maurice load these maps. Does he have a site with all these maps?
As for the 2K2 resistor, aside from making the coils heat resistant. Did Maurice notice any significant power gain doing so? Can you send us some pictures or instruction for all of us brave enough to cut our stuff off.

Many thanks for the update, and look forward to see the new map.

Mark

SQ88

Yes, a picture where this resistor would be helpful. When the new map is ready, will Maurice be emailing it out or will it be on the ftp site...which is not accessible when I checked last week.

Please keep us posted!
Thank you

RX-8 friend

I asked him to be sure to set up the site for you, so hopefully he will find the time and remember to do it. If he forgets I'll get a copy to e-mail out.

I'll take a picture as soon as I can and post it here.