lolachampcar

There is no ignorance in your comments at all. They are all good questions.

At this point, it is helpful to understand that I am not EFIDude. I use and like their stuff, but I am not them.

What I am doing is making sure people have a particular firmware in their car and thus a fair right to use. If you do, then I send you a copy of your firmware with your edits. You can choose to change stock by a percentage or build your own targets from the ground up. It is your choice. I tend to go from stock (in slow increments) as they have done a good job of things like allowing for the six port opening (lots of fuel).

As for how and how much things get flashed, this is a much deeper technical question. The stock Mazda secondary boot loader either erases the whole flash (05-08) or in 1K chunks as you send data (04). That structure determines what gets erased. It is probably possible to do a custom boot loader and erase/change just parts. It is far easier and safer to stay within the Mazda framework and reflash exactly like they do (just my opinion).

You may use whatever you want to use to flash files. I have the EFIDude file encrypter and can send you files for that tool. I believe Dan Harrison will give me his file encrypter so we can support that one. Cobb uses a different method and Trey is trying to find a way to help me support the AP. When Hymee ships, I am certain he will provide a Hymee encryptor. I think we have most of the bases covered. I am not sure how each of those tools (apart from the Dude) approaches reflashing and it really is none of my business. My only need is to give people files that are compatible with their flashing device.

I hope this explains more than it confuses.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

interesting read so far...subscribing.

Spin9k

yes and yes lol. I have the '04 and will have the efidude dongle so that's why I phrased it that way. I understand and appreciate your 'at arms length' position.

So the deeper question if you know the answer, is as before, and for an 04, when I use the tool I have, am I (can I) only writing specific tables of my choice (is a table on one or more 1K boundries?) or is that 1k write erase block simply something it does as it erases and writes the multiple 1k blocks that make up the whole flashable area?

lolachampcar

Man, I've been cornered.

The tool you will use acts exactly as the Mazda factory tools and will do the entire file in 1K chunks every time. I think you will find that everyone does it that way and I say that because of the risk of doing it any other way (as you depart from an established stable system). The H R&D works exactly the same way (kinda).

lolachampcar

Cobb has come through. If we find something that is working well and want it available in AP format, they have offered to transfer the edits to an AP usable file.

Thanks Guys!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Turning what you are doing into an AP-compatible file is easy.
What I wont do is go the other way.

Spin9k

Cool, as I imagined...but I asked because I used to be a programmer in another life and when I wrote change files, to keep the file size down, I designed the update routine to start reading the bits in the chosen file until a preset signature match was found, then start the replace at that point and only for the bits required.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

so who wants to create an equivalent of cvs/subversion for flash files?

lolachampcar

Would not want you to. You're already doing a lot providing the files your providing on the AP.

Spin9k

I don't know what the meaning of the above statement is, that is, could you explain it a bit more? Are you simply saying LTFT affects the primary table values?

If (?) the ECU has a lambda value constant in it (1.0) or a/f constant (14.7), would it be possible to change that constant to be slightly leaner (or whatever)? Then the LTFT developed by the ECUs programming algorithmv(RB says LTFT developes to an eventual ~2-3.5% rich mixture) could be used to make the mixture spot on (or whatever you wanted).

Wouldn't that take care of the trim issue. Prop not so simple but a thought.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

I'm assuming MM's is saying there are target lambda "modifier" maps of some sort?

lolachampcar

Ok, here we go.

I just spent a good bit of time copying over the fuel maps to the attached excel sheet. I've not checked them in detail yet so please let me know if you see something funny.

I may have been getting a bit slap happy, but there did not seem to be much difference in the fuel maps. I've never worked with four different firmwares at once so this is my first time actually getting them all (almost) side by side. Any comments???

I know, I know-
Timing is coming.

Blond moment. I went through the steps of attaching the file and did not notice that it did not like the file. Now attached in zip form for your viewing pleasure.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

Thought I'd throw this in here as it would be helpful for the effort...

I did a brief experiment on volumetric efficiency of my particular 4.5 yr old engine (mainly to see if my cat was plugged... but the results are useful in here) which in basic terms measures how much air went thru the engine compared to how much air should be going thru the engine. The basic inputs for the theoretical model is our dispacement of 1.308L and rpms. Basic inputs for the actual model is maf, rpms, iat, and the weather channel as the mass airflow was converted to a volume flow based on air density adjusted for temp, press, and humidity. Of course for this thread, VE is one of the building blocks of fuel maps.



just some things i noticed to put my mind to ease...
- it matches up with what Hymee did a long long time ago https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/measured-mass-air-flow-efficiency-33370/
- my 3 years old RP high flow cat is not yet plugged to death!
- my ports are all working
- there is little reason to go beyond 8800 rpms as the engine just doesn't flow anymore

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

R0tor,

Nice one! Thanks for pointing out that old thread. It was refreshing to read many items I posted such a long time ago, and how the beliefs I held then are still held today, and all that work back then is paying off now wrt my chosen S/C route and my recently revived work on PCM Tuning. And we are stilll using the MAF, even in F/I apps

Cheers,
Hymee.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I have a theory on N/A tuning that no-one is going to agree with but I keep finding evidence that supports it :

N/A tuning does practically nothing to improve acceleration through the gears !

I do see an improvement if you hold in 3rd gear and accelerate from say 3500 right through to the redline . But for some odd reason I don't see any improvement when going through the gears .
This is using Scanalyser to test in gear acceleration . BTW - yes I've dynoed the car with the tune and it showed 20odd HP increase . You would think that would translate to something on the road .

Flame suit ready ....

Spin9k

As you seem to have this test/graph measurement thing all well in hand, could you retry a run with the following mod? It might give us some insite into where, if an, improvements can be had in flow at the top end. So, simply remove the stock front half of the intake box so the filter is left exposed like this



then use a bit of tape to hold the filter in place and rerun and do the graph and see if flow improves anywhere ... or looked at another way, does the stock front end intake setup impede flow esp at the top.

Might be an interesting comparison I know it's not perfect but it could add to the pool of knowledge. Of course having a peek down the tube of your hi-flow CAT might be revealing as well and would be necessary to draw any definitive conclusions from this!

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Good Question.

Now that I have flowed the stock throttle body on a flow bench, and know exactly how much it can flow, the next test is to flow same with MAF in place, then the stock air box. Something we decided to do a couple of weeks ago now, but there is the odd project or two on the go at the moment!!!

If the "oval shaped" inlet to the stock are box is smaller then the TB, then one ought to expect a restriction there. But it is all pure conjector until (a) it is measured in such a manner, and (b) once the restriction is removed then we see measured gains in acceleration times.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Spin9k

Found something pretty interesting for anyone w/$ and the time (also avail online and on CD cheaper).

It's a seminar by SAEInternational coming in April:

"Race Engine Calibration for Optimal Performance"

for:

"Anyone interested in engine calibration/programming the on-board computer, especially for race engines. At a minimum, classification as at least a junior in a curriculum leading to a BS degree in engineering or experience in engine development is necessary background for taking this course."

With a nice course curriculum:


Basic engine theory
Relationships between torque, brake specific fuel consumption, engine design parameters, engine operating conditions, and four fundamental efficiencies (volumetric, combustion, indicated thermal, and mechanical)
Effects of fuel/air equivalence ratio
Effects of load
Effects of engine speed
MBT and LBT
Goals for race engines
Goals for production engines
Correction factors
Engine sensors--the need for and use of:
Crank position sensor
Cam position sensor
Intake air temperature sensor
Manifold air pressure sensor
Mass air flow sensor (if used)
Exhaust "oxygen" or lambda sensor
Throttle position sensor
Engine coolant temperature sensor
Knock sensor
Air/fuel ratio control
Base pulse width look-up table for speed-density systems
Benefits of MAF systems
Multipliers
Ignition timing control
Base ignition timing look-up table
Adders


here's the link:

http://www.sae.org/servlets/pdEvent?...EVT_NAME=C0602

If you didn't know your tuning stuff already, this looks like the way to catch up.

lolachampcar

I had hoped there would be enough interest on the forum to generate such a repository. I’ve found that the end product is typically better when more voices are included in the process.

However, I think this thread has died due to lack of interest and it is time to move on. I’ll move the conversation over to the EFIDude site and will continue to support the NA and Nitrous file editing already started. I can make a copy of those files available to anyone interested; just PM me with your needs and the type of programmer you want to use.

Thanks All, Lola

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I don't think there is necessarily a lack of interest. I would believe it is more of a lack of experience to contribute to an ongoing discussion.
I and I am sure others are following this thread in hopes of picking up information and coming up to speed on tuning.

Spin9k

Huh? Move on...you only started the tread on March 1 - 18 days ago!!

I just got my dongle and am getting my car out of winter storage. Propbably other are as well. It takes time and effort for people to buy gear of whatever type, make runs, produce files, figure things out and make a contribution. Just my opinion but I can't understand why you are so quick to stamp this done and over?

I've been here on this board for 6 YEARS and I can tell you things take time...a lot of time in some cases to get results. What the problem with looking at, and possibly responding to posts as they shows up, no matter when?

Moving to discussion to efidude will not allow the majority to notice this...people can only pay close attention to so much IMHO.... and having topics here is preferable to somewhere else to my mind. But it is your thread...

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

This is interesting.. When you're going through the gears you will only see the top end of the powerband. But I thought that most NA tuning for the 8 actually gave the most results up top?

This could also be due to the differences in real HP on the street and what the dyno actually measures. Hmm..

This is very cool, thanks! That looks like excel, would you mind attaching the spreadsheet? I should have some datalogs in the next month or so, and I want to start experimenting with some mods to airflow

BTW, people like to say that as soon as power drops off there's no reason to accelerate further, but you also need to consider that you're probably still accelerating faster with less power in the lower gear that you would if you shifted up. To really get a good picture of acceleration, you need to consider alot of factors besides just engine power at X rpm. I've been meaning to model this but projects > time

This sounds pretty sweet.. I also really want to take an EFI university class... But damn those are expensive. I might have to check out their e learning options

Hey don't give up so easily.. This thread has only been around for a couple weeks and there's been some good contributions up until now. People need to get into gear, and things like this don't happen overnight.. I vote for letting the thread live

lolachampcar

I really was not giving up on anything. I was more acknowledging the fact that there did not seem to be a lot of people out there wanting to tune their car and thus not enough to actually generate a usable grouping of files. I’ve got a NA 04 heading to nitrous and an NA 05 started. I think we need at least two of each year to validate the data and to be able to say “this file does that when you install it”. I just did not see that many people willing to participate.

I am still game to pitch in and help anyone interested in doing tuning. I took a few lumps getting the Excel to WinOLS edit loop closed but those are behind me now. It really is not that much work to provide the edited files. We just need some more people to pick up the task.

Patience is not my strong suit. I'll work on that.

Bring on the edits!!!!!!

Spin9k

A guess as to how this will play out is... as more useable info gets posted here (presuming it will) more people will show interest and more posts will be made.

The goodness for many is only in the result... they may just want to feed off work done until they can come up with stuff of their own. It could well take into summer and beyond.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

lolachampcar: I have a question about winols. The only thing I can find is a demo version out on the web. Is that the one you are using.