TeKP

Does the rx-8 have one of these pre-cats?

labrat1123

Couple of things...

1. Wouldn't I want to use a mid-pipe with an O2 bung to retain the O2 sensor w/ the Stage 2 instead of using the "fooler"? (Irregardless of the narrowband/wideband issue with the stock sensor)


2. I remember an interview w/ one of the Import Drag guys, maybe Abel Ibarra, saying they had switched to the Iridium(sp?) spark plugs because of the glowplug/preignition problem. Anyone else using these plugs?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

All of us are.
Iridium plugs are a stock part on the RX-8.

IZoomZoomI

can the unit be link to apexi piggy back unit?

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

You are correct, Mr. Labrat - your mid-pipe would have an O2 bung, but the '8 uses before & after O2 sensors, the fooler would be needed for the 'after' sensor.

S

devious12

Please email me with any information on how I can purchase this kit. devious121212@yahoo.com Thanks

devious12

Do you have more info on where to place an order for the stage II kit? Thanks

AndyPearce

Any update on this, has anyone supplied Canzoomer with the appropriate data to determine if this mod will work with the UK/Europe ECU?

I imagine it will as it seems to be bringing it closer to the ECU map of the Japanese RX8 (well the figures suggest so to a complete novice like me!)

canzoomer

We have recently shipped test units to users / tuners in Australia, the UK, and Germany.

I have received wide band sensor readings from users in Australia and the UK.

What we have seen so far is that the tuning maps there are similar or identical to what we see here.

Once we get some feedback from these people in actual use of our kits we will then be able to definitively post more info on this.

canzoomer

Regarding O2 foolers:

A friend here in Alberta is running a midpipe with a Random Tech cat, and the O2 sensors install in bungs, and has had no issues.

Random also built and installed test units in cars in the Atlanta area and they too see no problem, and have not had to use O2 foolers.

With a Random 700099 high flow cat in a custom mid-pipe, high temperature resistant cat in your mid pipe you do not seem to need an O2 fooler, the flow is better, and performance gains are noticeable, ASSUMING YOU HAVE INSTALLED a TUNING to allow the engine to use proper fuel/air mixtures.


As for longevity of this cat, the oldest examples are now months in use, and have encountered no problem so far.

RX-jimenez

i want to make it simple, with the stage 1 is easier if i have to take it back to the dealership for any warranty?? and what about the sensor is receving from the tires while is spinning faster? is allready upgraded? that mean too that i can use the exhaust and the intake with the stage 1 rigth??

canzoomer

Our kits bolt in, with no permanent modifications. You can remove it and take it right back to the way it was before.

You can also leave it in, turn it off, and there is no sign it is there.

To find it they would have to remove the ECU box cover.

And there is no normal service reason for doing that.

About to post a thread on installation method.
Lots of pics.

Take a look and you will see what is involved.

WHealy

Maurice,

Good to see you posting again. I trust that's a good sign. As in light nearing the end of the tunnel. Hope all continues to go well.

RX-Nut

Sorry, I got a probably a dumb question.. but these threads are HUGE and couldnt find an answer..

Where is the ECU located on the car anyway? And with this plugin box, is it somewhere you can easily get to, as you say?

Guess I should wait for the pics eh.. heh

canzoomer

I just posted instructions with pics in a new thread here.

The ECU box is at the very front, under the hood, on the passenger side.
It is the black plastic box next to the battery, closest to the right.

MadJoker

found this about octane, hope it helps


http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/R...RONMONPON.html



Madjoker

canzoomer

Good, but we have done the whole fuel/octane/additives thing to death a couple of months back.

Another good link:
http://www.cheresources.com/greengas.shtml

MadJoker

Yeah I read and was lost in all of that


Madjoker

Krashoper

canzoomer.

ECU is basically a remaping of Fuel/Air/ignition? since each exhaust systems has it on performance characteristic. would the maping of the ECU base on the type of the aftermarket exhaust improve the performance more?

your input will great appreciate. thanks.

som

canzoomer

Our Stage1 device over-rides the ECU to adjust the fuel/air mixtures.
The Stage2 adds ignition advance over-rides and a more aggrressive mixture level.

In general the way it works is based on data it collects from the MAF (air flow sensor) throttle positon sensor, O2 sensor.

If you improve air flow by using a better flowing exhaust system, for example, it properly compensates for the air flow rate and adds the appropriate mixture level of fuel.

As it is a piggy back it does not directly control the fuel injection duty cycle.
Here is basically how it works:
We run a stock engine at various throttle, rpm, and other sensor data ranges, and measure the mixture level that the ECU adjusts the air/fuel mix to.
We enter a setting for a series of points, separated by 100rpm intervals, to add or take away fuel from the mix provided by the ECU's control of the fuel injection system.

The way we do this is by telling the ECU that it is getting more or less air as measured by the MAF, and the ECU responds with the the actual changes to mixture by djusting the fuel injection duty cycle.

Let's say at 1/2 throttle, 5,000rpm we have observed that the ECU is running 10% too rich a mixture level.
We then feed the ECU a modified signal from the MAF that tells the ECU that is its getting less air intake as detected by the MAF than is real.
The ECU reacts by cutting the amount of fuel to match the new "faked" air input level.
We then re-test, and confirm that under this condition we now have the correct mixture, or adjust further until we have that "dialed in"
Then we do the same at the next rpm level, then at the next throttle position level, and so on.
It is a 2 dimensional grid of throttle and air flow measurements, with adjustment levels for each point on that grid.
Now, we add the readings from the exhaust O2 sensor to calibrate the emissions levels of hydrocarbons.
So it becomes a 3D grid of adjustments.

Our computer measures the sensor conditions 50 times per second, and adjusts the readings sent to the ECU each tme, by looking up the correct point in the grid maps and sending the necessary compensations to the ECU MAF input signals.

Ideal mixture levels produce the most power.
Technically speaking the most efficient burn level is aroud 14.6:1 mixture levels. When you are cruising with partial throttle that is what we make it do.

When you open up the throttle we make it a bit richer, as at mostly open or WOT throttle conditions this 14.6 mix would produce "knocking" or "pinging" which is when the mixture explodes instead of evenly burning.
We enrich the micture to about 13.2:1 at full throttle level to prevent that risk.

One may set it more agressively, perhaps to a 13.7:1 mix, and get more power, but then one needs to make sure the fuel is at the proper, higher octane levels, and there is still an increased level of risk of detontation.

At a 13.7:1 mix at full throttle one gets about 45hp gained over stock.
At 13.2:1 one gains about 20-25hp

We are providing the latter in Stage1.
A good safe map that will not knock, even if you use less than optimal gas, or are running at harsher atmospheric conditions.

The stock tuen on an RX-8 runs mixture levels as rich as more than 10:1 at WOT. this is why it loses power. It is like driving around with the choke stuck on.

Stage2 uses the more aggressive maps, and adds a few degrees of ignition advance to make more power.
One HAS to use at least 91 octane fuel to run safely.

However as we gain on power, the exhaust gas temperatures get higher, so one can not use a stock cat with Stage2, as the heat would strip the coatings off the cat's ceramic bricks, rendering it useless and damaged.
With Stage1 we stay in the safe range of temperatures.
Still it may reduce cat life, to say 50,000 miles, instead of the 120,000 the new EPA2 regulations require.

By tuning and adjusting these "maps" we produce a set that forces the ECU to provide the preferred corrected mixture levels.

So it definitely works with other aftermarket performance items to make them work properly.

If an improved exhasut results in more air flow, the maps tell the ECU to provide the correct fuel levels for that rate of airflow and throttle opening.

Krashoper

thanks for the info.

93rdcurrent

Thank you Canzoomer. I really appreciated that explanation.

RX-Nut

Wow. excellent summary CZ!!

I thought your unit just had preset maps that it followed, I didnt realize they were dynamic and would adjust accordingly if one changed intake or exhaust.. (duh, i'm clueless..)

SWEET. And from your new site, I see the cost is now $749.. Darn, should have ordered way back when.. heh shoulda woulda coulda.. Still, I would say it's well worth it!

Japan8

I actually read all the threads following the development of this unit. I have to really give you a hand for your hard work... it seems to have really been done well. It all just makes me want an RX-8 even more (but the little lady says no while we are in Japan).

Anyway, just a quick question... so upgrading to a high temp,l high flow cat with a cat-back exhaust system while running Stage 1 mod, would see little if any performance gains? I know that Stage 2 would take full advantage of it, but say one didn't want to have to run 91 octane all the time or didn't always have access to quality stuff... would it still be worth it to purchase a cat +mid pipe from you?

Omicron

High flow cat and muffler would net you some performance gains, regardless of whether you had nothing, CZ Stage 1 or 2. Some vendors are claiming up to 20 WHP improvements from a midpipe & muffler... a high flow cat + muffler will come close to these numbers.

Both mods work better with better exhaust flow, but Stage 2 requires the new cat, as exhaust temps exceed what the stock cat can handle.