RX4+30Years=RX8

I had an oil injection system failure on my RX4 back in 1975. It caused one of the apex seals on each rotor to wear down to the point where one of them became dislodged and one shot down the tailpipe and I took it back 4 times after they replaced the engine to find the rattle. Interestingly, it still ran, very poorly, but it ran.

cavemancan

Canzoomer,

This is my first post BTW...LOL!

Anyways, I am interested in the Stage 1 big time but I need some answers first before I consider it.

1) Do you need a chip replacement if you purchase mods like an intake after the install of the CZ?

2) Are there any pros or cons on purchasing a high flow cat with this setup? Can I use a High flow cat with the stage II (In Florida...No emissions tests)?

3) Is there a website I can go to order this? I am about 2 months away from ordering it.

EDIT:

4) I have a 2005 Rx-8 and I heard the 8 has a smart ECU that typically takes any changes you make in the Piggy Back System and reverts it to stock. Is this not the case with your unit?

5) What happens if we need to take the car in for warrantee and they reflash the stock ECU? Do we need to send you the CZ so you can update its ROM chip?

I appreciate any information you can give me...Thanks!!

nhk

1. Do you need a chip replacement if you purchase mods like an intake after the install of the CZ?
No, maybe u wanna to adjust ur map to again or retune.

2) Are there any pros or cons on purchasing a high flow cat with this setup? Can I use a High flow cat with the stage II (In Florida...No emissions tests)?
There is not stage I or 2 different interm of the circuit board. the different is tunning map. Pros might be couple extra whp, some high flow cat able withstand higher heat than stock unit.

3. Is there a website I can go to order this? I am about 2 months away from ordering it.
goto google, and search for canzoomer. u will have a web site to order it. or find the used unit on this forum/ebay

I am no canzoomer, i am just cz unit owner myself

cavemancan

I figured it would need to be retuned but I was wondering what CanZoomer's policy was for retuning (I should have said that). I.E. would he charge us for it or only charge the shipping and handling fees...ETC.

As far as the CAt is concerned I guess I was worried about future upgrades. So if I had a high flow would it work with Can's Stage II ECU which will obviously increase exhaust temperature...I guess it would also depend on the High FLow Cats temp range.

Anyways thanks for the great info!

toca

i was thinking of buying the stage 1 kit th unit is 500 usd is there anything else u need to buy with that raise the cost

nhk

Ok, this is the list of wat i hav to tune the cz

1. CZ (the stage I and Stage II is the same thing, just different map to load it in)
2. the canscan, or the Hymee sCANalyser (coz rx8 got wide band for A/F reading)

Alot of reading/search on this forum about cz tunning, tune on street in a safe environment and safe speed

Or u can always goto dyno tune by urself or professional

there is other choice other than CZ unit for ecu tunning like interceptor

cavemancan

And for my final question...

Are CanZoomer's claims of 25 wheel HP for stage 1 and 55 wheel HP for stage II true and does anyone have a dyno sheet?

Everyone I've talked to so far has told me that its total crap and that those projected figures sound more like an FI application.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

The ultimate tune for a NA would be more like +20 RWHP for a daily driver. I'm currently hovering around this number: http://www.nemesis8.com/dyno/

nhk

I made 194 hp w the high flow cat, revi (w/o the ram) and cz tunning (W N-flash).

Nemesis, U got torque (13 lbs/ft) and hp than mine (6 Hp)

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=168

My tunning used to be 13.6 for A/F all the way, but now I tuned it down to 13.2 for 7700 rpm above, and 13.5 from 6200 - 7600 rpm.

I wondered is it because of the light weight pulley and flywheel (?)

toca

nemesis can u pm me your na afr and ingion tune setup i like to see what afr and ingion (miss spell) i can use your set up as a base and see if my car acts with it then go from there

cavemancan

???

I now have more questions...LOL!! How did you manage 20 wHP? Is that ECU + additional Mods like an intake and exhaust?

So are you telling me that in order to get that much power I will need ECU + Exhaust + intake...Etc.? Basically what mods did you have during that Dyno run?

Also is this using the original CanZoomer maps or did you modify those maps yourself?

BTW...I have limited knowledge when it comes to tuning so please explain a little about what you did. This is my first rotary engine.

Thanks guys!

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

My 7th and 8th run was with the CZ and pulleys added since last year's run.

My map is still only for fuel. It's not complete. I have changed only the cells only for 70-100% throttle and 6200 RPM on up. I don't have the timing changed yet. I need to get my wideband installed this week, so that I have two sensors to data log my AFR.

I have every bolt on short of the header, which may never happen after reading the header threads. I think the lightened flywheel helps down low, and the lightened and underdriven pulleys help up high.

My ECU is pulling timing, so soon I will add back what I need to get a full 30 degrees back. I'm also going to tune for 13.2 to 13.5 AFR or .90 to .92 Lambda.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

I will when I have them complete. Give me about two more weeks

nhk

Nem,

the future mod.. the weight reduction.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Yes - I'm working that next.

Check these two graphs out. I looked up the Interceptor-X and used the same correction factors for a comparison. Mine will get better with timing and a more consistent AFR. My current map is only for fuel at 6200 up and 70% throttle and up. No timing has been added back in. When I get my wideband hooked up, I will tweak this map for 5500 up and add back the timing to get 30 degrees from 6800 on up.

Interceptor on swoope's car:


CZ on nemesis8's car:

cavemancan

What do you expect your power to be once your done?

BTW...Thanks for all the info!

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

An SAE Corrected value above 200 at the wheels

toca

well for that header it was obx even though it looked liked a 1k jp header it wont be the same. re headr i dont really like. the headers im between getting is the feed and rmagic there design differs then re.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

OD, it's a pretty simple item to tune. You basically pull certain data logs from a CANscan device for throttle, rpm, advance, and afr while doing a WOT run from 4K to redline on a track in third gear. Then you import the comma separated log file into a custom Excel spreadsheet to view your data log in graph format. From that you look where you need to pull fuel based on what you find. You will also be able to track your ignition and see if you need to add back what the ECU pulls.

As for the ECU fighting back, just remember what Maurice told us:

"Some of you who are tuning have posted that the car ECU "learns" a long term fuel trim and adjusts against the tuning. You are right!
BUT: The car checks AFR when it is in closed loop mode. That is below 70% throttle, and below the closed loop/open loop transition rpm. So, what IS the transition rpm?
By measurement:
1st gear: 6,200rpm
2nd gear: 5,500rpm
3rd gear: 4,800rpm
4th gear and up - same as 3rd.

So, some lessons to derive from this:
1) Tune above transition point ( 6,200) and do NOT touch the fuel/air below 6,200 unless it is only 5% or less.
2) If you want to tune down to 5,500 avoid full throttle in 1st gear below 6,200
3) If you want it tune more, and want to get around the "learned" long term trims, simply disconnect the battery ground if the ECU "learns" a fuel trim.
This returns the car to default fuel/air settings. Of course it will "learn" again, so this is not a long term solution. I installed a replacement battery ground post that has a 1/4 turn **** to disconnect. This allows for quick and easy resets.

Also, regarding weather and temperatures:
If you tune in cold weather the air is denser. When you run at a higher temp the air is less dense. That means the mixture will be a bit different. Humidity will also affect it. The car has a barometric pressure sensor as well, so it does compensate for altitude and air pressure change due to weather, however it does not have a means for detecting humidity. My advice, if doing fairly aggressive maps is to do a set for both cold/dry conditions and for warm/wet ones. Save them and use as needed."

xVeNoMx

So....I thought the Stage 1 was designed to be "pre-tuned" ? Now people are talking about tuning them, is that optional, or does it have to be tuned itself after install? I'm kind of technically....slow, and I have no idea how I would go about this, if I were to buy one.

lshu

It is pretuned conservatively to be safe with every 8, since tuning parameters are different for each car. People continue to tune so that their map fits exactly with their application. I believe Stage 2 is tuned more agressively, but still too modest for some people's standards.

MehkoR

will stage1 or stage2 work on a 2006 6speed mt
i am in turkey and just bougt the car so i am not sure if it has the same with american one

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

stage 1 stage 2 stage 3 stage 4.....

Ugg - look, there are no more stages if you ask me. You have to tune the map for your car period. If you tune it for the most HP, then you are likely going to fry the OEM cat, so get a high heat high flow cat midpipe while you are at it.

xVeNoMx

So it's pretty safe to say that its NOT "plug and play"? I'd have to tune it myself to my car's specific tune? I'm pretty mechanically um, slow, with the rotary, and have never worked on the computer at all....not a good buy for me? Opinions?

lshu

It IS plug and play, but without your own tuning your power gain won't be very much, so in that case your purchase would not be worth it. The goal is to tune aggressive enough so that you have a decent power gain, but not too much as to cause pinging or significantly reduce the life of the cat.