Performance tuning kits
12-01-2003, 02:52 PM
#151
Whoa, there!
se3pmaniac and I were just having a little fun. There is no need to just sit around bashing each other directly. At least, save that for PM.
Even though I found him to be abrasive initially and I wanted to take him to task for his illogical arguments and ad hominem attacks, the fact is he raised EXCELLENT questions and seems to have found a less agressive way to voice himself.
I'm sure that we all have ways of "making an entrance" as it were and that was se3pmaniac's way.
Lets get on with it.
se3pmaniac and I were just having a little fun. There is no need to just sit around bashing each other directly. At least, save that for PM.
Even though I found him to be abrasive initially and I wanted to take him to task for his illogical arguments and ad hominem attacks, the fact is he raised EXCELLENT questions and seems to have found a less agressive way to voice himself.
I'm sure that we all have ways of "making an entrance" as it were and that was se3pmaniac's way.
Lets get on with it.
12-01-2003, 02:54 PM
#152
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Very interesting about the stock O2 sensor.
My question is.......If the first group pf cars (mine included) received a reflash in port...why wasn't a new O2 sensor, one that actually reads the richer mixtures the engine now produces, included in the port modification.
Or even if they were not prepared for that (no new O2 sensors immediatly available).....the latest production cars could be fitted with a wider band O2 sensor. This would (according to what Canzoomer theorizes) solve the problem of the ECU going into that loop to adjust A/F ratio due to O2 sensor out of band.
This would appear to be an important part of the "retune" all of our RX8's got in the first group. The computer looping and getting new data 4-6 times/second seems like hack to me.....compared to a constant stream like a O2 sensor would provide.
My question is.......If the first group pf cars (mine included) received a reflash in port...why wasn't a new O2 sensor, one that actually reads the richer mixtures the engine now produces, included in the port modification.
Or even if they were not prepared for that (no new O2 sensors immediatly available).....the latest production cars could be fitted with a wider band O2 sensor. This would (according to what Canzoomer theorizes) solve the problem of the ECU going into that loop to adjust A/F ratio due to O2 sensor out of band.
This would appear to be an important part of the "retune" all of our RX8's got in the first group. The computer looping and getting new data 4-6 times/second seems like hack to me.....compared to a constant stream like a O2 sensor would provide.
Last edited by Gyro; 12-01-2003 at 04:27 PM.
12-01-2003, 03:23 PM
#155
Originally posted by shift_zoom8
Oh so everything is ok now? COOL! And even the humor is being interpreted correctly now...I think.
Oh so everything is ok now? COOL! And even the humor is being interpreted correctly now...I think.
This same thread in the back of a bar on Copenhagen with a Carslburg in hand would be an entirely different thing.
12-01-2003, 03:40 PM
#156
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Ok, everybody shake hands, hug if you want to, and we'll all sing a nice course of Koombaya.
I agree with Maniac that Se3pManiac (Wait! Could they be brothers? Naaah...) started a bit agressively on this forum, but has since tempered his approach. No need to continue the reverse jabs at this point. Canzoomer has also said it's all in the past too, and this is HIS forum.
If we can ignore all the name calling, there is some very good info contained in this thread. Let's keep it this way from now on. Thanks...
I agree with Maniac that Se3pManiac (Wait! Could they be brothers? Naaah...) started a bit agressively on this forum, but has since tempered his approach. No need to continue the reverse jabs at this point. Canzoomer has also said it's all in the past too, and this is HIS forum.
If we can ignore all the name calling, there is some very good info contained in this thread. Let's keep it this way from now on. Thanks...
12-01-2003, 04:13 PM
#157
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Canzoomer (Maurice)
Thank you for dealing with the issues raised in this thread
1) Calmly and in an unemotional manner.
2) By demonstrating a very good grasp of the issues involved.
3) Helping me and I am sure many others to expand their understanding of the machines that they are driving.
I for one now feel confident that your modification is a carefully considered and appropriate way to increase the power of our cars to around the level that Mazda originally targetted.
Congratulations put me down for an order!
Thank you for dealing with the issues raised in this thread
1) Calmly and in an unemotional manner.
2) By demonstrating a very good grasp of the issues involved.
3) Helping me and I am sure many others to expand their understanding of the machines that they are driving.
I for one now feel confident that your modification is a carefully considered and appropriate way to increase the power of our cars to around the level that Mazda originally targetted.
Congratulations put me down for an order!
12-01-2003, 04:32 PM
#158
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Yeah guys enough of the mental masturbation , trying to impress each other with unnecessary comments will not get our rx8 running ,faster better or smoother , so lets all get our collective knowledge together and work as a team to improve the rx8 .
AS kamal an indian singer would say (WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN )
Make love and faster cars not war .
michael
AS kamal an indian singer would say (WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN )
Make love and faster cars not war .
michael
12-01-2003, 04:59 PM
#159
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Originally posted by Maniac
Well, the real drawback of the internet and forums like this is the complete lack of inflection and body language.
This same thread in the back of a bar on Copenhagen with a Carslburg in hand would be an entirely different thing.
Well, the real drawback of the internet and forums like this is the complete lack of inflection and body language.
This same thread in the back of a bar on Copenhagen with a Carslburg in hand would be an entirely different thing.
Hey, se3pmaniac, we're trying to help you!!! And that's a friendly thing. I even apologize to you formally right now. You have important things to talk about that can benefit everyone here. It's just sometimes your presentation can provoke on the personal level. And I usually respond to that kind of thing with cryptic humor that is easily missed leaving only the caustic element to be felt, which doesn't help the matter.
Look, I will even make a concession to you with regard to the academic thing. I jogged and search and I think I found a class in which you MIGHT be able to beat me: PVL applications in automotive engineering.
In case you're wondering, PVL = pure Vulcan logic. Are you laughing right about now?
12-01-2003, 05:05 PM
#160
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Originally posted by Lock & Load
Yeah guys enough of the mental masturbation , trying to impress each other with unnecessary comments will not get our rx8 running ,faster better or smoother , so lets all get our collective knowledge together and work as a team to improve the rx8 .
AS kamal an indian singer would say (WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN )
Make love and faster cars not war .
michael
Yeah guys enough of the mental masturbation , trying to impress each other with unnecessary comments will not get our rx8 running ,faster better or smoother , so lets all get our collective knowledge together and work as a team to improve the rx8 .
AS kamal an indian singer would say (WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN )
Make love and faster cars not war .
michael
With regard to unnecessary comments used to impress, why cite Kamal, an Indian singer? LOL.
Ok, that's enough out of me. I'm just joking, you know that, right?
12-01-2003, 07:05 PM
#161
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You think this has something to do with ego? If that's your intrepretation, I can't do anything about it.
Originally posted by shift_zoom8
You are quite a character. You choose to read my words at face value and take affront but you fail to read YOUR OWN words veridically, instead choosing to create implausible explanations in ad-hoc fashion when others complain about you. Your behavior shows a CLEAR genuine inconsistency that is qualitatively different from the courtroom "logical arguments" you've employed on others based on semantics games and taking their words out of context.
Did you know the human brain is designed to be egocentric?
Allow me to amend one of your statements above. You meant to say: "At least all my [personal attack] posts have technical information." So let me get this straight, if I can provide technical information like you do, then personal attacks would be ok? Again, your logic doesn't fly.
I'll be straightforward. If you and I went to the same college at the same time and took the same courses, you COULD NOT beat me in one single course, whether it's literature, history, economics, math, genetics, or engineering. Your ego gets the better of you. It's a male ego thing, like guys have with sports. You did it to Canzoomer. This time I do it to you. Only can you analyze what's behind this, behave accordingly, and pass MY test by turning the egocentric lens outward?
You are quite a character. You choose to read my words at face value and take affront but you fail to read YOUR OWN words veridically, instead choosing to create implausible explanations in ad-hoc fashion when others complain about you. Your behavior shows a CLEAR genuine inconsistency that is qualitatively different from the courtroom "logical arguments" you've employed on others based on semantics games and taking their words out of context.
Did you know the human brain is designed to be egocentric?
Allow me to amend one of your statements above. You meant to say: "At least all my [personal attack] posts have technical information." So let me get this straight, if I can provide technical information like you do, then personal attacks would be ok? Again, your logic doesn't fly.
I'll be straightforward. If you and I went to the same college at the same time and took the same courses, you COULD NOT beat me in one single course, whether it's literature, history, economics, math, genetics, or engineering. Your ego gets the better of you. It's a male ego thing, like guys have with sports. You did it to Canzoomer. This time I do it to you. Only can you analyze what's behind this, behave accordingly, and pass MY test by turning the egocentric lens outward?
12-01-2003, 07:29 PM
#162
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That's very interesting on the o2 sensor. I do not know it runs in closed loop under full throttle.
On the Super AFCII, I was wondering why can't you just use yours to store two sets of maps or even multiple, instead of incorporating the super AFC II into your unit.
On the Super AFCII, I was wondering why can't you just use yours to store two sets of maps or even multiple, instead of incorporating the super AFC II into your unit.
Originally posted by canzoomer
On some of the earlier postings we are still at a stage where we considered a static map, with no O2 feedback.
We since have the RX-8's MAF and O2 sync worked out, so we are using both. We intercept the MAF and adjust in the conventional fashion, thereby adjusting the fuel duty cycle timing and interval.
The stock O2 is not a broadband, but as we are keeping the ratio within it's bandwidth, it is still valid.
The rather ironic part is that the stock ECU settings frequently take the mixture out of the bandwidth region of the O2, thereby rendering it incapable of providing useful data to the ECU. I feel that this is because Mazda originally designed the whole system to work within the bandwidth, but then re-tuned for emissions and fell out of band.
We could have used a wideband, but how many people would entertaain the cost of adding a bung to their exhaust, adding a $300 broadband sensor, etc..
If you look at a dyno curve for the stock ECU tuned settings you can see that over 6,000rpm the curve "jitters" very badly. I think that this is due to the fact that it is in a feedback loop with the O2 sensor falling out of band. The ecu is re-adjusting the fuel to compensate, then falling out of band, then re-adjusting, over and over and over.. The frequency of the jitters is constant, so this is effectively measuring the feedback cycle time of the sensor and ECU as a subsystem. The one good thing we get out of this is knowing the stock ECU's response time, which is about 4-6 times per second.
Our control unit has frequency resolution of better than 10 times per second, so we know that we are using a device that responds at least as fast as the systems it controls. I am happy about that as we are not going to be in a position where we are not able to respond fast enough.
If I understand you correctly, you are asking why we would use the A'PEXi AFC II AND our unit together instead of JUST the AFC II ?
The short answer is we hope not to have to do this.
We designed our mapping parameters to be compatible with the A'PEXi, so when they can control the MAF and the ignition, we should be able to just port our maps over.
At present the main problem with using existing A/F and ignition tools is that none of them have yet been updated to be capable of recognizing the MAF in the RX-8 OR the ignition parameters.
For proper ignition control when adding advance it is prefereable to change the intrval between the trailing and leading plugs on demand. Neither Greddy, Apexi, or others yet support this.
This is why we had to do some customization.
However, by the spring we are hopeful that this software functionality will appear on the A'PEXi units.
On some of the earlier postings we are still at a stage where we considered a static map, with no O2 feedback.
We since have the RX-8's MAF and O2 sync worked out, so we are using both. We intercept the MAF and adjust in the conventional fashion, thereby adjusting the fuel duty cycle timing and interval.
The stock O2 is not a broadband, but as we are keeping the ratio within it's bandwidth, it is still valid.
The rather ironic part is that the stock ECU settings frequently take the mixture out of the bandwidth region of the O2, thereby rendering it incapable of providing useful data to the ECU. I feel that this is because Mazda originally designed the whole system to work within the bandwidth, but then re-tuned for emissions and fell out of band.
We could have used a wideband, but how many people would entertaain the cost of adding a bung to their exhaust, adding a $300 broadband sensor, etc..
If you look at a dyno curve for the stock ECU tuned settings you can see that over 6,000rpm the curve "jitters" very badly. I think that this is due to the fact that it is in a feedback loop with the O2 sensor falling out of band. The ecu is re-adjusting the fuel to compensate, then falling out of band, then re-adjusting, over and over and over.. The frequency of the jitters is constant, so this is effectively measuring the feedback cycle time of the sensor and ECU as a subsystem. The one good thing we get out of this is knowing the stock ECU's response time, which is about 4-6 times per second.
Our control unit has frequency resolution of better than 10 times per second, so we know that we are using a device that responds at least as fast as the systems it controls. I am happy about that as we are not going to be in a position where we are not able to respond fast enough.
If I understand you correctly, you are asking why we would use the A'PEXi AFC II AND our unit together instead of JUST the AFC II ?
The short answer is we hope not to have to do this.
We designed our mapping parameters to be compatible with the A'PEXi, so when they can control the MAF and the ignition, we should be able to just port our maps over.
At present the main problem with using existing A/F and ignition tools is that none of them have yet been updated to be capable of recognizing the MAF in the RX-8 OR the ignition parameters.
For proper ignition control when adding advance it is prefereable to change the intrval between the trailing and leading plugs on demand. Neither Greddy, Apexi, or others yet support this.
This is why we had to do some customization.
However, by the spring we are hopeful that this software functionality will appear on the A'PEXi units.
12-01-2003, 07:54 PM
#163
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Thank you for your concern. I will talk to my girlfriend to see if I really need any help since she has a master degree in psych. Maybe I do. I just don't know. Maybe she is crazy too and that's why we are together.
Maybe I miss the humor but what's up with your beating me in every class? What does that have to do with anything? When I was in school, my department was rated top 3 in the nation. Using academic background to emphasize authority is just pointless. On top of that, your academic background or even my academic background has nothing to do this thread. But since you keep bringing it up, I will share it with you.
Even if you can beat me in every class, maybe I just spend too much time playing with rotaries and I don't like to study. :D
Maybe I miss the humor but what's up with your beating me in every class? What does that have to do with anything? When I was in school, my department was rated top 3 in the nation. Using academic background to emphasize authority is just pointless. On top of that, your academic background or even my academic background has nothing to do this thread. But since you keep bringing it up, I will share it with you.
Even if you can beat me in every class, maybe I just spend too much time playing with rotaries and I don't like to study. :D
Originally posted by shift_zoom8
Are you kidding, maniac!!! LOL. Do NOT give se3pmaniac the beer! Alcohol temporarily deactivates or attenuates activation in the prefrontal cortex, a region believed to be the seat of self-control and regulatory (including emotional) behavior. Egos and unadulterated abrasiveness may actually get worse with a Carlsburg in hand. Maybe throw some beta adrenergic receptor antagonists (i.e., beta blockers) into se3pmaniac's Carlsburg!
Hey, se3pmaniac, we're trying to help you!!! And that's a friendly thing. I even apologize to you formally right now. You have important things to talk about that can benefit everyone here. It's just sometimes your presentation can provoke on the personal level. And I usually respond to that kind of thing with cryptic humor that is easily missed leaving only the caustic element to be felt, which doesn't help the matter.
Look, I will even make a concession to you with regard to the academic thing. I jogged and search and I think I found a class in which you MIGHT be able to beat me: PVL applications in automotive engineering.
In case you're wondering, PVL = pure Vulcan logic. Are you laughing right about now?
Are you kidding, maniac!!! LOL. Do NOT give se3pmaniac the beer! Alcohol temporarily deactivates or attenuates activation in the prefrontal cortex, a region believed to be the seat of self-control and regulatory (including emotional) behavior. Egos and unadulterated abrasiveness may actually get worse with a Carlsburg in hand. Maybe throw some beta adrenergic receptor antagonists (i.e., beta blockers) into se3pmaniac's Carlsburg!
Hey, se3pmaniac, we're trying to help you!!! And that's a friendly thing. I even apologize to you formally right now. You have important things to talk about that can benefit everyone here. It's just sometimes your presentation can provoke on the personal level. And I usually respond to that kind of thing with cryptic humor that is easily missed leaving only the caustic element to be felt, which doesn't help the matter.
Look, I will even make a concession to you with regard to the academic thing. I jogged and search and I think I found a class in which you MIGHT be able to beat me: PVL applications in automotive engineering.
In case you're wondering, PVL = pure Vulcan logic. Are you laughing right about now?
12-02-2003, 01:33 AM
#164
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by Gyro
Very interesting about the stock O2 sensor.
My question is.......If the first group pf cars (mine included) received a reflash in port...why wasn't a new O2 sensor, one that actually reads the richer mixtures the engine now produces, included in the port modification.
Very interesting about the stock O2 sensor.
My question is.......If the first group pf cars (mine included) received a reflash in port...why wasn't a new O2 sensor, one that actually reads the richer mixtures the engine now produces, included in the port modification.
This is only a temporary fix so we can ship the cars, and we will work it out later under a TSB
There is no readily available part that will also fit.
Just too damned smart for their own good
And, my personal favourite:
Evil conspiracy.
Or even if they were not prepared for that (no new O2 sensors immediately available).....the latest production cars could be fitted with a wider band O2 sensor. This would (according to what Canzoomer theorizes) solve the problem of the ECU going into that loop to adjust A/F ratio due to O2 sensor out of band.
Too much pride and not enough common sense in my opinion.
Everybody screws up, it is human nature, but some companies sure seem loathe to admit it once in a while.
What should have been stated as:
"We made a mistake and the advertised horspower was stated too high"
Became:
"Because we are always looking for ongoing improvement in the vehicles we produce.."
I find that a LOT more offensive than the statements Mr. se3pmaniac made. At least he has the grace to say he is sorry because he went overboard a bit.
This would appear to be an important part of the "retune" all of our RX8's got in the first group. The computer looping and getting new data 4-6 times/second seems like hack to me.....compared to a constant stream like a O2 sensor would provide.
Quick and dirty fix to a problem, then instead of following up with the proper answer, just deny all and run for cover.
12-02-2003, 02:06 AM
#165
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by se3pmaniac
That's very interesting on the o2 sensor. I do not know it runs in closed loop under full throttle.
On the Super AFCII, I was wondering why can't you just use yours to store two sets of maps or even multiple, instead of incorporating the super AFC II into your unit.
That's very interesting on the o2 sensor. I do not know it runs in closed loop under full throttle.
On the Super AFCII, I was wondering why can't you just use yours to store two sets of maps or even multiple, instead of incorporating the super AFC II into your unit.
It was designed to do things differently than the way they tuned it.
On the SAFC II there is a lot of ROM space and a lot of things to smooth transitions.
On our device there is less ROM, less stuff, and a WAY lower price tag.
The AFC II is a cool box.
But will never hit the $500 class with a tune and the install fitments like we have packaged.
BTW, thanks a BIG bunch for mentioning the J&S stuff a few days ago. One of the things I am doing soon is getting Adam at RX7 Specialties to rework my motor with better apex seals, so it is more knock resistant.
I had a good chat with him tonight, and he too brought up J&S in that context.
Last time I looked at their stuff was about 2 years ago, and while it worked to retard timing on knock conditions, it was pretty crude back then.
They have certainly made some big strides!
One thing I wanted to try for Stage2 and beyond tuning is to have a good integrated knock control, and separate control of the advance on leading and trailing plugs, different variable advance for lead and trail, and the ability to shut down the trailing ones at high rpm/WOT conditions.
Problem was "Where to get a device to do all this for me?"
This way I can play with lean mix and heavy advance with less risk of blowing things up in testing.
While trailing plugs do a lot for complete combustion and low rpm smoothness, they impose a risk at high rpm WOT where the trailing plug can act as a glowplug and trigger sever knock. In the worst case scenario one could potentially get pre-ignition when the apex seal passes the trailing plug and it acts as a glowplug, triggering ignition about 30 degrees too soon. That not only would hammer apex seals, but could potentially take out a main bearing as well.
I wanted to be able to try turning off the trailing plugs when needed for some tests.
Seems their new 1004-4CH Ultrasafeguard can do just this.
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/safeguard.html
I think i will hurt my credit card tomorrow morning!
BTW, for those inclined to read some really outstanding tech talk on detonation and preigntion, check this out:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/tech.html
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articl...ne/Detonation/
Thanks se3p!
Hmm, is that like "C3PO"
You droid boy, you..
12-02-2003, 03:10 AM
#166
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Originally posted by se3pmaniac
Thank you for your concern. I will talk to my girlfriend to see if I really need any help since she has a master degree in psych. Maybe I do. I just don't know. Maybe she is crazy too and that's why we are together.
Maybe I miss the humor but what's up with your beating me in every class? What does that have to do with anything? When I was in school, my department was rated top 3 in the nation. Using academic background to emphasize authority is just pointless. On top of that, your academic background or even my academic background has nothing to do this thread. But since you keep bringing it up, I will share it with you.
Even if you can beat me in every class, maybe I just spend too much time playing with rotaries and I don't like to study. :D
Thank you for your concern. I will talk to my girlfriend to see if I really need any help since she has a master degree in psych. Maybe I do. I just don't know. Maybe she is crazy too and that's why we are together.
Maybe I miss the humor but what's up with your beating me in every class? What does that have to do with anything? When I was in school, my department was rated top 3 in the nation. Using academic background to emphasize authority is just pointless. On top of that, your academic background or even my academic background has nothing to do this thread. But since you keep bringing it up, I will share it with you.
Even if you can beat me in every class, maybe I just spend too much time playing with rotaries and I don't like to study. :D
Just keep talking to Canzoomer. And show him some due respect like a good boy.
12-02-2003, 10:55 AM
#167
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I don't know what Mazda is doing by using a regular narrow band o2 sensor to run a closed loop under full throttle. They should have gone with a wideband sensor. You can buy one for $300-350 with the control unit, sensor, analog output and monitor. If mazda makes it, it's probably going to cost them no more than $100.
On the J&S knock sensor, I have been using it for about 4 years. I don't know if they have a new version for the rotary but on the website, it looks like the same one I got. There are a few things I don't like about it.
1. It only retards the leading ignition.
2. It only comes with only one knock sensor
So why is retarding only the leading ignition bad? If the leading timing is retarded too much, the trailing plug will fire first. And that's like having pre-ignition. This is one of the reasons why I asked you about the timing split and if your ignition box tuned for both leading and trailng timing. The J&S knock sensor has two settings for max retard timing, 10 or 20. On my car, I set it to be 10 max and on my APEX Power FC, I set the timing split to be more than 10 so even if the J&S is retards the leading timing at max, the trailing plug will not fire first.
From experience, the rotor that has no knock sensor always gets blown first. They should make the unit to come with two knock sensors, one for each rotor.
I don't know if they have made any improvement on the current unit. You might want to ask them about that.
If you want to cut off the trailing ignition, maybe you can design a cut off switch box that has rpm and throttle input and just cut the trailing ignition from the ignitor. Or the simple way will be running a cooler plug. Or simply disconnect the plug wires on the dyno?
SE3P is the chassis code for RX8. There is no special meaning.
On the J&S knock sensor, I have been using it for about 4 years. I don't know if they have a new version for the rotary but on the website, it looks like the same one I got. There are a few things I don't like about it.
1. It only retards the leading ignition.
2. It only comes with only one knock sensor
So why is retarding only the leading ignition bad? If the leading timing is retarded too much, the trailing plug will fire first. And that's like having pre-ignition. This is one of the reasons why I asked you about the timing split and if your ignition box tuned for both leading and trailng timing. The J&S knock sensor has two settings for max retard timing, 10 or 20. On my car, I set it to be 10 max and on my APEX Power FC, I set the timing split to be more than 10 so even if the J&S is retards the leading timing at max, the trailing plug will not fire first.
From experience, the rotor that has no knock sensor always gets blown first. They should make the unit to come with two knock sensors, one for each rotor.
I don't know if they have made any improvement on the current unit. You might want to ask them about that.
If you want to cut off the trailing ignition, maybe you can design a cut off switch box that has rpm and throttle input and just cut the trailing ignition from the ignitor. Or the simple way will be running a cooler plug. Or simply disconnect the plug wires on the dyno?
SE3P is the chassis code for RX8. There is no special meaning.
Originally posted by canzoomer
I found it hard to believe until I understood why.
It was designed to do things differently than the way they tuned it.
On the SAFC II there is a lot of ROM space and a lot of things to smooth transitions.
On our device there is less ROM, less stuff, and a WAY lower price tag.
The AFC II is a cool box.
But will never hit the $500 class with a tune and the install fitments like we have packaged.
BTW, thanks a BIG bunch for mentioning the J&S stuff a few days ago. One of the things I am doing soon is getting Adam at RX7 Specialties to rework my motor with better apex seals, so it is more knock resistant.
I had a good chat with him tonight, and he too brought up J&S in that context.
Last time I looked at their stuff was about 2 years ago, and while it worked to retard timing on knock conditions, it was pretty crude back then.
They have certainly made some big strides!
One thing I wanted to try for Stage2 and beyond tuning is to have a good integrated knock control, and separate control of the advance on leading and trailing plugs, different variable advance for lead and trail, and the ability to shut down the trailing ones at high rpm/WOT conditions.
Problem was "Where to get a device to do all this for me?"
This way I can play with lean mix and heavy advance with less risk of blowing things up in testing.
While trailing plugs do a lot for complete combustion and low rpm smoothness, they impose a risk at high rpm WOT where the trailing plug can act as a glowplug and trigger sever knock. In the worst case scenario one could potentially get pre-ignition when the apex seal passes the trailing plug and it acts as a glowplug, triggering ignition about 30 degrees too soon. That not only would hammer apex seals, but could potentially take out a main bearing as well.
I wanted to be able to try turning off the trailing plugs when needed for some tests.
Seems their new 1004-4CH Ultrasafeguard can do just this.
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/safeguard.html
I think i will hurt my credit card tomorrow morning!
BTW, for those inclined to read some really outstanding tech talk on detonation and preigntion, check this out:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/tech.html
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articl...ne/Detonation/
Thanks se3p!
Hmm, is that like "C3PO"
You droid boy, you..
I found it hard to believe until I understood why.
It was designed to do things differently than the way they tuned it.
On the SAFC II there is a lot of ROM space and a lot of things to smooth transitions.
On our device there is less ROM, less stuff, and a WAY lower price tag.
The AFC II is a cool box.
But will never hit the $500 class with a tune and the install fitments like we have packaged.
BTW, thanks a BIG bunch for mentioning the J&S stuff a few days ago. One of the things I am doing soon is getting Adam at RX7 Specialties to rework my motor with better apex seals, so it is more knock resistant.
I had a good chat with him tonight, and he too brought up J&S in that context.
Last time I looked at their stuff was about 2 years ago, and while it worked to retard timing on knock conditions, it was pretty crude back then.
They have certainly made some big strides!
One thing I wanted to try for Stage2 and beyond tuning is to have a good integrated knock control, and separate control of the advance on leading and trailing plugs, different variable advance for lead and trail, and the ability to shut down the trailing ones at high rpm/WOT conditions.
Problem was "Where to get a device to do all this for me?"
This way I can play with lean mix and heavy advance with less risk of blowing things up in testing.
While trailing plugs do a lot for complete combustion and low rpm smoothness, they impose a risk at high rpm WOT where the trailing plug can act as a glowplug and trigger sever knock. In the worst case scenario one could potentially get pre-ignition when the apex seal passes the trailing plug and it acts as a glowplug, triggering ignition about 30 degrees too soon. That not only would hammer apex seals, but could potentially take out a main bearing as well.
I wanted to be able to try turning off the trailing plugs when needed for some tests.
Seems their new 1004-4CH Ultrasafeguard can do just this.
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/safeguard.html
I think i will hurt my credit card tomorrow morning!
BTW, for those inclined to read some really outstanding tech talk on detonation and preigntion, check this out:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/tech.html
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articl...ne/Detonation/
Thanks se3p!
Hmm, is that like "C3PO"
You droid boy, you..
12-02-2003, 11:25 AM
#168
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haha. why do you refuse to response?
I am a super nice guy filled with ideas. I am here to share. I might have appeared in a harsh and unpleansant way but you can't deny my contribution to this thread. Ever since I come on this forum, you probalby know a lot more about rx8, rotary engine, and general automotive info.
Argument is just part of life. Sometimes exchanging info results in arguments but if you get something out of it, it's worth it, at least for me.
Do I hate Maniac? No, I think he probably knows about cars more than 99% of the people on the forum. I only play with rotary, if it's piston specific, I am sure he knows more than I do.
Do I hate Carzoomer? No, I think what he is doing is great.
Do I hate Gordan? No, he misunderstands me sometimes but it's no big deal.
Do I hate those people here who thinks I am "the bad guy". No, overtime you will find out I have a lot to share.
The bottomline is that I don't hold grudge against anyone here.
BTW, I am no one's good boy, not even my mom's :D
why do you refuse to response?I am a super nice guy filled with ideas. I am here to share. I might have appeared in a harsh and unpleansant way but you can't deny my contribution to this thread. Ever since I come on this forum, you probalby know a lot more about rx8, rotary engine, and general automotive info.
Argument is just part of life. Sometimes exchanging info results in arguments but if you get something out of it, it's worth it, at least for me.
Do I hate Maniac? No, I think he probably knows about cars more than 99% of the people on the forum. I only play with rotary, if it's piston specific, I am sure he knows more than I do.
Do I hate Carzoomer? No, I think what he is doing is great.
Do I hate Gordan? No, he misunderstands me sometimes but it's no big deal.
Do I hate those people here who thinks I am "the bad guy". No, overtime you will find out I have a lot to share.
The bottomline is that I don't hold grudge against anyone here.
BTW, I am no one's good boy, not even my mom's :D
Originally posted by shift_zoom8
I refuse to respond. No way.
Just keep talking to Canzoomer. And show him some due respect like a good boy.
I refuse to respond. No way.
Just keep talking to Canzoomer. And show him some due respect like a good boy.
12-02-2003, 08:25 PM
#169
Vivid Racing Test Monkey
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Hey all. I'm new to the forum and far from a technician or engineer. Just a new rx8 owner / enthusiast. I have some questions about this product because of course I would like more power out of the car (which is already incredible as it is).
I'm interested in this product but would like to know how a product like this would affect a turbo system if at all. If this is a dumb question or I missed it in another thread, please point me in the right direction.
Thanx in advance.
I'm interested in this product but would like to know how a product like this would affect a turbo system if at all. If this is a dumb question or I missed it in another thread, please point me in the right direction.
Thanx in advance.
12-03-2003, 04:39 AM
#170
Forum Vendor
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Sanguine_Dark
Hey all. I'm new to the forum and far from a technician or engineer. Just a new rx8 owner / enthusiast. I have some questions about this product because of course I would like more power out of the car (which is already incredible as it is).
I'm interested in this product but would like to know how a product like this would affect a turbo system if at all. If this is a dumb question or I missed it in another thread, please point me in the right direction.
Thanx in advance.
Hey all. I'm new to the forum and far from a technician or engineer. Just a new rx8 owner / enthusiast. I have some questions about this product because of course I would like more power out of the car (which is already incredible as it is).
I'm interested in this product but would like to know how a product like this would affect a turbo system if at all. If this is a dumb question or I missed it in another thread, please point me in the right direction.
Thanx in advance.
Non-boosted tuning involves an intake with zero to negative pressure levels in the intake tract.
Boosted involves negative, zero and POSITIVE pressure.
Lots more complex, lots different.
We will be working on these, once we can get our hands on some turbo or SC kits to test on.
12-05-2003, 10:11 AM
#172
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Canzoomer...
When you ran the comparison run in the Borla exhaust car, how noticeable was the decel popping after the CZ mod was in place? Better or the same as the Borla with stock fuel programing? My Rx8 has stock exhaust yet and I can't get my 'social director to okay the aftermarket exhaust due to the decel popping! At least she is okay with the fuel piggy back program purchase...
Thanks,
Tom
When you ran the comparison run in the Borla exhaust car, how noticeable was the decel popping after the CZ mod was in place? Better or the same as the Borla with stock fuel programing? My Rx8 has stock exhaust yet and I can't get my 'social director to okay the aftermarket exhaust due to the decel popping! At least she is okay with the fuel piggy back program purchase...
Thanks,
Tom
12-06-2003, 01:05 AM
#175
Forum Vendor
Thread Starter
Originally posted by islandsoon
Canzoomer...
When you ran the comparison run in the Borla exhaust car, how noticeable was the decel popping after the CZ mod was in place? Better or the same as the Borla with stock fuel programing? My Rx8 has stock exhaust yet and I can't get my 'social director to okay the aftermarket exhaust due to the decel popping! At least she is okay with the fuel piggy back program purchase...
Thanks,
Tom
Canzoomer...
When you ran the comparison run in the Borla exhaust car, how noticeable was the decel popping after the CZ mod was in place? Better or the same as the Borla with stock fuel programing? My Rx8 has stock exhaust yet and I can't get my 'social director to okay the aftermarket exhaust due to the decel popping! At least she is okay with the fuel piggy back program purchase...
Thanks,
Tom
I only got to drive it a short while, mainly to see that it was running OK.
He has been putting lots of time on it lately I hear.