Finding a tuner for an s2k and finding a good tuner for rotaries isn't close to being the same. . .you can tell by the interest of most major aftermarket companies...

 

The question was: "So, my question to you guys is - are the gains so minimal (not power but efficiency) that it's not even worth getting tuned?"

Efficiency gains are my main concern, and were the focus of my question, but it was all drowned out by the MM fan club attacking the reality that Jeff isn't timely and that I *gasp* would rather not wait a month for a tune turn around.

I know that there are lots of good reasons for buying an AP for a stock rx-8, which is why I did - I just wanted to know if there were any worthwhile efficiency gains (once again NOT talking just power) to be had in getting it tuned or if the changes were so minimal that it would be agreed upon by the majority that spending the usual amount of $ to get it tuned wasn't worth it.

But like I said, I think that the MM fan club will drown me out of my question, which is ok with me, I can just ask a different way to make all of them happy.

 

I never said it was. I was giving an example with tuning a car and what was reasonable to expect in terms of time.

 

- maps do not take 3 months to get
- your poor fuel mileage is probably being caused by something else
how old are your plugs?
how many miles on your 8?
how long since you replaced the coils? OEM coils?
have you cleaned your air filter?

 

Do you feel a difference with a tune? Yes, but I can only speak for myself.

But your comments about MM is basically an answer to the question itself. The tunes take a long time to get because a lot of people aren't following the instructions and asking stupid questions and doing it wrong, and because he does other community related things and isn't getting rich off it. It has nothing to do with being fanboys, it has to do with accepting reality. Some vendors sell everything they can get their hands on for a quick buck (won't mention names) while some are dedicated to the car's wellbeing.

Would it be better if it happened in under 48 hours? Yes. But if you do your homework before buying you know what to expect, and that's why most of us are happy with the service. 90% of the questions to him seem to be in the first post and he probably gets them as pm's as well.

 

I absolutely think it can be worth it in the long run. I see the better benefit being in areas other than HP increase (since HP increase is so minimal without supporting mods), though that is a bonus. The better oil metering and lower fan temps alone can improve the longevity of your engine considerably. The slightly better mileage, raised idle RPM (no more idle vibration) and other small improvements add considerably to your overall happiness with the car. I would like to see the retail price drop about $200 though. The electronics do not cost that much to manufacturer. There is a large profit margin built in to each individual programmer considering what it is. I use to sell programmers for other markets, so yes, I know. If that profit margin is not there based on the retail price they charge, then they need to find another vendor to manufacture the product. The AP will need a competitor before that happens. The need for custom tuning for even basic cars needs to go away as well. Programmer manufacturers in other markets do this much better.

I just wish the service and the person were better than they are (my personal opinion). MM does not see this as he gets plenty of positive support from his regular crowd, but he is hurting his business. There are a lot of people that will not buy from him because of how he treats people and how he runs his business. This is coming from someone that has never met, talked with, or done business with him; I only know what I see here and that is the impression I am left with. This is probably a result of being a one-man-show, but it is a problem non-the-less. The company that figures this out and does it right will make a killing.

 

I have had a good experience with it since I was running the AP on my stock RX8 with the built in Cobb Stage 1 map which gave me extra power without any noticeable mileage reduction. Also I have used the Gas Economy mode on 300 mile trips to L.A. and you get better mileage at the expense of a lil bit of power. Now that I have put a couple mods (Mazsport Ignition, and midpipe) on the 8 it seems to work very very well with them.

I referred you to Fluid Motorsports as an alternative tuning source, there are others but I cannot recall at the moment. Is this what you were looking for?

 

How much better? What's your best highway fuel economy?

 

Its not the electronic itself that makes the Cobb AP so expensive. It's the 6+ months of custom tuning that comes with the AP. You can usually buy an AP used for about $500. Spending $500 on a device that can substantially make your car run better and not knowing how to get the device to do so is pointless. That would be like buying an 09 RX8 MT, not knowing how to drive MT, and not being able to learn how to. The customized tunes from MM, although it may take a couple weeks, is worth the price.

If you go into the Cobb AP discussion thread, you can see that MM gets the same questions over and over and over and over. Think of it this way. Everyday you come on this site, how many times have you answered the question "Is frothy stuff on my dipstick ok?". Now, how many times have you bashed the OP for not reading or searching? MM is 1 man helping hundreds. He knocked out about 40 tunes in one night and emailed them back to people. The only people who have issues receiving their tunes arethe ones who do no follow the instructions to the T. Also, in the Cobb AP discussion thread, it clearly says it is taking 2-4 weeks to receive the AP. Not so sure why you are bitching about it.

 

Got it. Yeah if that's your expectation going in you're bound to be disappointed. There's slim pickins' out there for folks who really understand the nuances of tweaking the AP maps for the rx-8. If I had to come up with an analogy I'd say you picked an exotic custom Linux build (rx-8) when what you really wanted was windows server that everyone can work on (s2000). Most everyone on here is just grateful to finally have some kind of tuning solution available for this vehicle.
You're experience platform frustration, I recommended you return to your s2000.

 

I have an AP and decided not to go through MM. I've been using the Cobb tunes and am going to slowly make adjustments to it to increase the non-performance aspects of the tune (oil metering, CEL deletion, increased idle, etc.).

If you have a bone stock 8 (or at least a NA with a stock intake) then you'll probably be content with the Cobb Stage 1 which will give you some gains. Not as much as you will get from MM who can go a lot further in tuning then the default Cobb will go since he does his tune on a car-by-car basis.

But if you already bought the AP from MM then I think you're insane to not use his service. All he requires is that customers follow the rules he puts out there before you even buy it off him. Put aside whatever angst it causes you and have him tune your car. Don't do it for you, him, or anyone else - do it for your RX-8. It'll love you forever for it.