Re-Flasher Shootout.........
04-02-2008, 06:08 PM
#226
One thing should be pretty clear, but it obviously isn't if you read drivel like what is posted above:
I will use whatever tool gets the job done and is available. I don't care where it came from or how it got here.
Like I've told every "participant" in the "shoot-out", in no uncertain terms - put up or shut up.
You can go blathering on about who said what, who is swinging his e-***** the highest or who is the biggest *******, but the fact remains that if you want to have a flash solution right now that works with all mods and produces OE-like results, there is only one product available.
In 2 years, two months or two minutes that might change.
In the same interval, I might change as well.
Cobb knows this and everyone else should know it as well.
I've never made any claims that I am the only way to get it done right or that Cobb is the only way it will work.
The fact is, right now, those are your only choices.
Show me where either of those claims are false.
This is a forum for your mouth, too. Perhaps your braggadocio would be best matched with some shipping product with working calibrations.
If the EFID turns out to be a more potent product, Christian will be wondering why my Cobb orders have ceased. Same goes for Hymee.
People are trusting me with their purchases right now because I stand behind them and, when they click the link, a box shows up at their door a few days later and they are off and running.
That is the nature of business. Delivery.
OK. I clicked it. Now, what will arrive? The link doesn't even describe what it can do.
All I know is I'm getting a "Pro-Logger" and a "VIN token".
What do those do?
What can I change? What are the results?
Sounds to me like any ability to do anything is "coming soon", which is my whole point.
I will use whatever tool gets the job done and is available. I don't care where it came from or how it got here.
Like I've told every "participant" in the "shoot-out", in no uncertain terms - put up or shut up.
You can go blathering on about who said what, who is swinging his e-***** the highest or who is the biggest *******, but the fact remains that if you want to have a flash solution right now that works with all mods and produces OE-like results, there is only one product available.
In 2 years, two months or two minutes that might change.
In the same interval, I might change as well.
Cobb knows this and everyone else should know it as well.
I've never made any claims that I am the only way to get it done right or that Cobb is the only way it will work.
The fact is, right now, those are your only choices.
Show me where either of those claims are false.
This is a forum for your mouth, too. Perhaps your braggadocio would be best matched with some shipping product with working calibrations.
If the EFID turns out to be a more potent product, Christian will be wondering why my Cobb orders have ceased. Same goes for Hymee.
People are trusting me with their purchases right now because I stand behind them and, when they click the link, a box shows up at their door a few days later and they are off and running.
That is the nature of business. Delivery.
Anyone interested can go to www.EFIDude.com and hit the buy button. One will arrive on their doorstep.
All I know is I'm getting a "Pro-Logger" and a "VIN token".
What do those do?
What can I change? What are the results?
RX8 OBDii ProLogger - (Buy Here)
The RX8 OBDii ProLogger is the hardware that makes it all happen. With a logging profile it will give you the ability to log more than 2 hours of vehicle variables. Switch to the programmer profile and you can reprogram your RX8 using one of the options listed below.
RX8 Programmer VIN Tokens - NOW SHIPPING!!! (Buy Here)
Purchase a VIN number "token" for your programmer to flash your RX8 PCM. Once you use your programmer to program a vehicle the VIN token will be deducted from your available tokens. You can program that one vehicle as many times as you want, but if you would like to program a different vehicle you are required to purchase another VIN token. Tuning files will be freely available for download.
In order to meet demand the first VIN token you purchase (after purchasing your ProLogger hardware) will ship with a second piece of hardware for reflashing. Once the update is available to support programming and logging on your hardware you are required to return the hardware or you can choose to keep it for $75.
ProTune for RX8 - COMING SOON
The ability to completely custom tune your RX8 will be available within weeks! Base files will be freely available for download to get you started.
The RX8 OBDii ProLogger is the hardware that makes it all happen. With a logging profile it will give you the ability to log more than 2 hours of vehicle variables. Switch to the programmer profile and you can reprogram your RX8 using one of the options listed below.
RX8 Programmer VIN Tokens - NOW SHIPPING!!! (Buy Here)
Purchase a VIN number "token" for your programmer to flash your RX8 PCM. Once you use your programmer to program a vehicle the VIN token will be deducted from your available tokens. You can program that one vehicle as many times as you want, but if you would like to program a different vehicle you are required to purchase another VIN token. Tuning files will be freely available for download.
In order to meet demand the first VIN token you purchase (after purchasing your ProLogger hardware) will ship with a second piece of hardware for reflashing. Once the update is available to support programming and logging on your hardware you are required to return the hardware or you can choose to keep it for $75.
ProTune for RX8 - COMING SOON
The ability to completely custom tune your RX8 will be available within weeks! Base files will be freely available for download to get you started.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 04-02-2008 at 06:14 PM.
04-02-2008, 06:14 PM
#227
EFIDude is shipping. Click the button at www.EFIDude.com and one will show up on your doorstep.
Cobb and EFIDude on the dyno back to back same horsepower.
EFIDude $20 per horsepower and Cobb/Jeff $46 per horsepower.
If you want to play with tuning, you CAN NOT DO IT WITH COBB. You can with EFIDude and soon HymeeSoft.
Pretty simple actually.
Cobb and EFIDude on the dyno back to back same horsepower.
EFIDude $20 per horsepower and Cobb/Jeff $46 per horsepower.
If you want to play with tuning, you CAN NOT DO IT WITH COBB. You can with EFIDude and soon HymeeSoft.
Pretty simple actually.
04-02-2008, 06:20 PM
#228
Jeff, it is about time you bought an EFIDude tool. I think the ProLogger part will really help you out. I'm not sure the reflashing buys you anything as you already have an editing and reflashing tool.
By the way, why are you wasting so much time telling people that EFIDude is this or EFIDude is that? Why should you care one way or the other? You have your tools and you are happy, right?
By the way, why are you wasting so much time telling people that EFIDude is this or EFIDude is that? Why should you care one way or the other? You have your tools and you are happy, right?
04-02-2008, 06:21 PM
#229
RX-8s Official Cool Guy
04-02-2008, 06:22 PM
#230
But what do I get?
You are telling me this, but I see no evidence anywhere on that page that I will receive anything that even remotely resembles what I can do with the AccessPORT.
Why would I simply throw $300 at some unidentifiable piece of equipment?
You saying it does what the AccessPORT can do is no better than me saying what the AccessPORT can do in the first place. There are plenty of concrete examples of what the AccessPORT is capable of and, if that is insufficient, I can go to Cobb's WEB site and get very detailed information on what is an isn't possible.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 04-02-2008 at 06:25 PM.
04-02-2008, 06:32 PM
#231
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
looks like some of these guys are showing up to a gun fight with nothing but a knife.
04-02-2008, 06:40 PM
#233
BTW - the AccessPORT software does some very complex logging. Furthermore, it accepts the serial output from my LM-1, so anything it can see (which is just about everything), will be dumped into the log right along with the CAN data.
I know this is completely useless for the end user at the moment since they can't get the software, but I am addressing the perceived need for a separate datalogger for those with the AccessPORT.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 04-02-2008 at 06:43 PM.
04-02-2008, 06:44 PM
#234
Yep, and that is why you have to pay $400 more for an AP that will not even log data and for which you have no way to make changes/edits.
It takes a lot of time and money to market a product. I kinda like not paying for that and just getting my spanner when I want a spanner. I'd rather learn how to tune for myself then have someone else provide my files for me. If I want someone to do it for me, I'd go to Cam Worth at Pettit Racing as he has been around for many a year.
Unless professional tuners pick up on the fact that they can do the same reflashing with an EFIDude tool as with an AP, you are faced with one of two choices (for now).
Buy an AP from a Tuner and use his/her files. $695
Buy an EFIDude and generate your own. $300
Maybe professional tuners should create their files using Cobb software and distribute them on EFIDude tools. That would provide them hundreds more in margin. You would get the best of both worlds, wiz bang editing software, affordable reflashing tools and the best data logging out there.
At last sighting, EFIDude was not going after the professional tuner. I think their goal was to provide the average guy with tools.
Bye for now. PM me if I can be of assistance.
It takes a lot of time and money to market a product. I kinda like not paying for that and just getting my spanner when I want a spanner. I'd rather learn how to tune for myself then have someone else provide my files for me. If I want someone to do it for me, I'd go to Cam Worth at Pettit Racing as he has been around for many a year.
Unless professional tuners pick up on the fact that they can do the same reflashing with an EFIDude tool as with an AP, you are faced with one of two choices (for now).
Buy an AP from a Tuner and use his/her files. $695
Buy an EFIDude and generate your own. $300
Maybe professional tuners should create their files using Cobb software and distribute them on EFIDude tools. That would provide them hundreds more in margin. You would get the best of both worlds, wiz bang editing software, affordable reflashing tools and the best data logging out there.
At last sighting, EFIDude was not going after the professional tuner. I think their goal was to provide the average guy with tools.
Bye for now. PM me if I can be of assistance.
04-02-2008, 06:48 PM
#236
Registered
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 3,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bought from Jeff, conversed with him, and within days my car is running perfectly...
I buy from EFIdude, I have no support from a rotary tuning expert, no base maps to start with, no clue if it even will allow adjustment of ALL the maps needed, no documentation on how the RX8 ecu really works, and now I have a few months of research to do and using my daily driven car as an experiment. But I saved a whole $400!
I buy from EFIdude, I have no support from a rotary tuning expert, no base maps to start with, no clue if it even will allow adjustment of ALL the maps needed, no documentation on how the RX8 ecu really works, and now I have a few months of research to do and using my daily driven car as an experiment. But I saved a whole $400!
04-02-2008, 06:50 PM
#237
Working on adding extra PiDs to the logging data set including some Mazda specific ones like trailing timing, injector duty cycle and the like. I did not need them for my first projects and thus did not include them. Now the Porsche and Mercedes guys are asking about that stuff (not trailing but they want knock retard for all twelve cylinders and such).
Anyway, assuming the Dude guys give me free reign on playing with PiDs (I am using the PassThrough personality to test the PiDs using my PC then providing my wish list to the Dudes), what does the RX-8 community really need?
04-02-2008, 06:53 PM
#238
I bought from Jeff, conversed with him, and within days my car is running perfectly...
I buy from EFIdude, I have no support from a rotary tuning expert, no base maps to start with, no clue if it even will allow adjustment of ALL the maps needed, no documentation on how the RX8 ecu really works, and now I have a few months of research to do and using my daily driven car as an experiment. But I saved a whole $400!
I buy from EFIdude, I have no support from a rotary tuning expert, no base maps to start with, no clue if it even will allow adjustment of ALL the maps needed, no documentation on how the RX8 ecu really works, and now I have a few months of research to do and using my daily driven car as an experiment. But I saved a whole $400!
You missed the whole do it yourself point. You do not want to do this yourself so you should buy the AP from your favorite tuner.
For those that want to do it themselves to learn or just control the process, you have an option.
04-02-2008, 06:56 PM
#240
Other project......
Working on adding extra PiDs to the logging data set including some Mazda specific ones like trailing timing, injector duty cycle and the like. I did not need them for my first projects and thus did not include them. Now the Porsche and Mercedes guys are asking about that stuff (not trailing but they want knock retard for all twelve cylinders and such).
Anyway, assuming the Dude guys give me free reign on playing with PiDs (I am using the PassThrough personality to test the PiDs using my PC then providing my wish list to the Dudes), what does the RX-8 community really need?
Working on adding extra PiDs to the logging data set including some Mazda specific ones like trailing timing, injector duty cycle and the like. I did not need them for my first projects and thus did not include them. Now the Porsche and Mercedes guys are asking about that stuff (not trailing but they want knock retard for all twelve cylinders and such).
Anyway, assuming the Dude guys give me free reign on playing with PiDs (I am using the PassThrough personality to test the PiDs using my PC then providing my wish list to the Dudes), what does the RX-8 community really need?
04-02-2008, 07:05 PM
#241
LOL
Results may vary. MazdaManiac makes no claims to performance or fitness of the product for that application. All MazdaManiac products are sold "as is" and carry no warranty, expressed or implied" regarding safety, effectiveness or suitability to the application and accepts no responsibility for any damages, either direct or consequential, caused by the use of these products. For North-American models ONLY.
04-02-2008, 07:10 PM
#242
Registered
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 3,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An OEM ecu like the RX8 with a dozen fuel and ignition tables that interact with various other maps is a whole other ballgame - especially when there is little to no documentation available to work with! Despite my above stated experience, I'd even be intimidated by that task unless i'm presented with a nice frontend software package and tons of documentation on how to correctly modify all of the maps i need. Giving that task to an average owner with only the most basic of tools to work with and do it on their only form of transportation - nothing good will come of that in most situations. Then on top of that, how the hell do you know if you did get everything tuned correctly when the maps are continually being adjusted, switched, modified behind your back.
Maybe in 2 years from now, enough knowledge will be available for that to work. I'm sorry, but thats the reality of the situation.
04-02-2008, 07:13 PM
#243
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
Results may vary. MazdaManiac makes no claims to performance or fitness of the product for that application. All MazdaManiac products are sold "as is" and carry no warranty, expressed or implied" regarding safety, effectiveness or suitability to the application and accepts no responsibility for any damages, either direct or consequential, caused by the use of these products. For North-American models ONLY.
04-02-2008, 07:17 PM
#244
Drive it like u stole it!
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: mobile, al
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bought from Jeff, conversed with him, and within days my car is running perfectly...
I buy from EFIdude, I have no support from a rotary tuning expert, no base maps to start with, no clue if it even will allow adjustment of ALL the maps needed, no documentation on how the RX8 ecu really works, and now I have a few months of research to do and using my daily driven car as an experiment. But I saved a whole $400!
I buy from EFIdude, I have no support from a rotary tuning expert, no base maps to start with, no clue if it even will allow adjustment of ALL the maps needed, no documentation on how the RX8 ecu really works, and now I have a few months of research to do and using my daily driven car as an experiment. But I saved a whole $400!
Any idea if efi is gonna have private tuners....
04-02-2008, 07:54 PM
#245
i was one of the first access port buyers from jeff......i got it and was very impressed...and then jeff gave me some maps....i didnt know what i was doing and evidently my car was running way to lean at wot 15.5-15.9....i did not know it would damage anything but now i do .....now my car is in the shop with detonation issues....im not blaming jeff ....i blame my ignorance also....if i would of had a local tuner i would not be driving a pt cruiser right now......
Its a partnership.
You need to give me exactly what I need to do it right just like I need to give you exactly what you need to make it right.
Then, you need to feel confident that you can follow instructions exactly.
What would you be willing to pay for that? Why didn't you just do that up-front?
Generally, the most important part of anything like what we are trying to accomplish here is self-evaluation.
You need to know exactly what you want to accomplish, how you want to accomplish it and what are your limitations, both intellectually and financially.
Its not meant to be a condescending diatribe on my part (though, it undoubtedly sounds like one), but you need to know this stuff before you pull the trigger.
As we discussed before, it is very unlikely that what you are hearing is detonation. Certainly, if you go back to stock and the noise is still there in the ranges that you were experiencing it, you are dealing with a whole different set of variables.
Just the fact that you sent the car to the dealer to handle a complaint like that indicates that you probably weren't in a position to enter into the arrangement with me over the AccessPORT in the first place.
04-02-2008, 08:10 PM
#246
Drive it like u stole it!
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: mobile, al
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And this is a good example of why it is tricky business to get it right.
Its a partnership.
You need to give me exactly what I need to do it right just like I need to give you exactly what you need to make it right.
Then, you need to feel confident that you can follow instructions exactly.
What would you be willing to pay for that? Why didn't you just do that up-front?
Generally, the most important part of anything like what we are trying to accomplish here is self-evaluation.
You need to know exactly what you want to accomplish, how you want to accomplish it and what are your limitations, both intellectually and financially.
Its not meant to be a condescending diatribe on my part (though, it undoubtedly sounds like one), but you need to know this stuff before you pull the trigger.
As we discussed before, it is very unlikely that what you are hearing is detonation. Certainly, if you go back to stock and the noise is still there in the ranges that you were experiencing it, you are dealing with a whole different set of variables.
Just the fact that you sent the car to the dealer to handle a complaint like that indicates that you probably weren't in a position to enter into the arrangement with me over the AccessPORT in the first place.
Its a partnership.
You need to give me exactly what I need to do it right just like I need to give you exactly what you need to make it right.
Then, you need to feel confident that you can follow instructions exactly.
What would you be willing to pay for that? Why didn't you just do that up-front?
Generally, the most important part of anything like what we are trying to accomplish here is self-evaluation.
You need to know exactly what you want to accomplish, how you want to accomplish it and what are your limitations, both intellectually and financially.
Its not meant to be a condescending diatribe on my part (though, it undoubtedly sounds like one), but you need to know this stuff before you pull the trigger.
As we discussed before, it is very unlikely that what you are hearing is detonation. Certainly, if you go back to stock and the noise is still there in the ranges that you were experiencing it, you are dealing with a whole different set of variables.
Just the fact that you sent the car to the dealer to handle a complaint like that indicates that you probably weren't in a position to enter into the arrangement with me over the AccessPORT in the first place.
04-02-2008, 08:42 PM
#247
So, do you want to take a stab at why it was detonating after you uninstalled the AccessPORT?
I'll refer you to page 30 of the "AccessPORT Discussion" thread as an example of what I am talking about.
I tried repeatedly - via e-mail, PM and in the forum - to get you to try a very specific series of steps to determine what was going on with your car and you would have nothing to do with it.
More importantly, the instructions specifically tell you not to go to WOT until you have done a pretty specific series of tests yet, somehow, you were at WOT already, having passed through a half-dozen calibrations in less than three days.
You can't do that without expecting some serious frustration.
I'll refer you to page 30 of the "AccessPORT Discussion" thread as an example of what I am talking about.
I tried repeatedly - via e-mail, PM and in the forum - to get you to try a very specific series of steps to determine what was going on with your car and you would have nothing to do with it.
More importantly, the instructions specifically tell you not to go to WOT until you have done a pretty specific series of tests yet, somehow, you were at WOT already, having passed through a half-dozen calibrations in less than three days.
You can't do that without expecting some serious frustration.
04-02-2008, 08:50 PM
#248
Drive it like u stole it!
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: mobile, al
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, do you want to take a stab at why it was detonating after you uninstalled the AccessPORT?
I'll refer you to page 30 of the "AccessPORT Discussion" thread as an example of what I am talking about.
I tried repeatedly - via e-mail, PM and in the forum - to get you to try a very specific series of steps to determine what was going on with your car and you would have nothing to do with it.
I'll refer you to page 30 of the "AccessPORT Discussion" thread as an example of what I am talking about.
I tried repeatedly - via e-mail, PM and in the forum - to get you to try a very specific series of steps to determine what was going on with your car and you would have nothing to do with it.
04-02-2008, 09:02 PM
#249
I'm not looking to argue with you, either. I need you to be an example.
You are not alone - there are others that had similar problems. But, for the most part they were rectified.
You had your AccessPORT delivered on the morning of the 17th (you didn't even get your calibrations until 7pm that evening and you never got a rectified set after establishing that your A/Fs were lean like a 1/2 dozen other people in the same time frame) and by 5pm on the the 21st you were already "going back to stock".
Because the instructions require that you get the fuel trims right before you start looking for WOT, there is no way you could have been through the whole process already.
I needed you to send feedback to the right e-mail address and you wouldn't or couldn't - for whatever reason. If you want to believe I was ignoring you, that is sad. Maybe I was trying to damage your car! It really doesn't matter to this discussion.
Even if you were operating in a complete information vacuum, you couldn't have arrived at the point you were at on the 21st without trying to take a shortcut and that is my only point.
Purchasers of the AccessPORT (or any other aftermarket modification that is this invasive) need to understand that the directions are not arbitrary.
Luck should play no part in getting it right.
You are not alone - there are others that had similar problems. But, for the most part they were rectified.
You had your AccessPORT delivered on the morning of the 17th (you didn't even get your calibrations until 7pm that evening and you never got a rectified set after establishing that your A/Fs were lean like a 1/2 dozen other people in the same time frame) and by 5pm on the the 21st you were already "going back to stock".
Because the instructions require that you get the fuel trims right before you start looking for WOT, there is no way you could have been through the whole process already.
I needed you to send feedback to the right e-mail address and you wouldn't or couldn't - for whatever reason. If you want to believe I was ignoring you, that is sad. Maybe I was trying to damage your car! It really doesn't matter to this discussion.
Even if you were operating in a complete information vacuum, you couldn't have arrived at the point you were at on the 21st without trying to take a shortcut and that is my only point.
Purchasers of the AccessPORT (or any other aftermarket modification that is this invasive) need to understand that the directions are not arbitrary.
Luck should play no part in getting it right.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 04-02-2008 at 09:09 PM.
