rx8speeddmon

iTrader: (4)

Glad they are together, will definitely make for a better series, but I hate to see those cars all disappear. Personally always thought the "go fast" button was way to gimicky for a major series but really nice cars none the less.

lolachampcar

The first pass NaarLeven file is now available in Dude format for anyone interested in giving it a try. It was good for some horsepower and the fans and RPM limit are easily altered to your needs.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I thought you were going to post it in an open format like a spreadsheet?

lolachampcar

Edits on page one of thread......

The file is offered as there are no editing packages out there right now for the average guy to make these changes. Trey has offered to support AP customer's edits unit their package is released. I am supporting Dude and others until the EFIDude freeware package and/or Hymee soft is released.

When is the AP going to be able to log data? It is really hard to do any meaningful work without a pair of eyes to see the changes.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

It already does - through the software.
I've been told a firmware update in the near future will give us AP logging in the unit.

That's a dyno plot.
Where is the Excel file?

sosonic

At the EFIDude site, the reflasher is ready, but what's up with the tuner/edit software?

Spin9k

lolachampcar can you give a bit of understanding about the flashing process? There are many different Mazda Flash levels, with different values set for parameters in each one, along with the ignition, fuel, and other maps possibly unique to each.

So when you flash with efidude or AP or whatever, is it guaranteed that your flashing process will not touch anything but what you want to modify (like fuel maps), or are you resetting other things to a certain Mazda Flash level (the one YOU as default editor for efidude maps [for ther time being] happen to have, for example) just with whatever map edits you do?

Reason I ask is i have just had the new flash done yesterday with the recalibrated OMP plus whatever else it does and I don't want to loose any of that by flashing to adjust fuel.

Help me understand what stays put and what get changed given the wide universe of possible flash levels out there when WE flash with a universal flash tool. Thanks.

Spin9k

bump for help with above?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

My take on it is that the "new" flash updates the whole flash with the data that it has...so you would have all values that the "new" flash would have

Otherwise it would be nearly impossible to know what you actually had on the PCM from one car to another...that would be real bad from a tuners perspective...and very difficult to control.

After the original reflash..that specific flash device could possibly update only the changes that it made to the tune in further changes

I could also be totally wrong

Spin9k

Either that or the flash ' flashes' ONLY the data area set aside in the ECU and leaves the rest or ...or ...or... we need an expert opinion here that's for sure....

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I would hope it's the whole thing...otherwise it could be chaos....

Lola had said that he was tuning off the new flash I believe

Spin9k

If that's true (meaning the 'U" flash) I'm relieved as I have it. He certainly got it awful fast to hack thru- wasn't the date on it 3-14?

I wish he'd chime in, don't know why he left this thread.

lolachampcar

Sorry, I did not mean to abandon anyone. Sometimes I feel like my mouth is getting ahead of me so I thought it might be a good idea to take a small break.

There are at least two ways that I can think of to deal with the whole version of flash issue-

The first is to take the file you have in the car (which is always included in the front of an EFIDude data log file so you know what flash generated the data that was recorded) and make your edits to that file then install the file. The down side to this approach is that you must keep track of your edits and migrate them to the newer versions of firmware as Mazda releases them. The up side is that you get a chance to compare each Mazda revision to the previous flash to see what they are up to. I’m naturally curious so I like that part.

The other way I can think of is to read the flash off the car and apply changes to the file before re-installing the flash. This has the benefit of not having to deal with such large files as the “tune” exists in a “difference” file which is exactly as it sounds. I do not use this method personally as I could never reconcile how best to apply the edits or “difference” information.

The two ways to apply difference or edits to a file that come to mind are outright swaps (was a 5 and now you make it a 7) or percentage (was 10, you add 10%, now it is 11). Either way, if you generate the tune file on a car with version X and apply your “difference” file to a car with firmware version Y then you may not get the results you expect. Let’s say you are leaning a spot that Mazda has chosen to lean in their version change and you are using a percentage change difference file approach. Now you will have a double leaning of that cell (Mazda did it in the version change and now you are applying a percentage change to Mazda’s work for a double leaning). Alternatively, Mazda makes a change and you use an absolute edit in your difference file. Now you have completely overwritten one of what are probably many changes in the firmware release. That may not be a problem, but I could not find a way to make sure it was not a problem. The only way to guarantee that you have the right edits is to generate a difference file for every firmware version that Mazda releases and then you are right back to opening and editing every firmware release (which removes the appeal of the difference approach for me).

If the above difference discussion is giving you a headache, you are not alone. I could not see any way to be certain that I got the results I wanted using the difference approach so I take the long way around. I apply edits to the firmware that is on the car and then I check my work with logged data straight away to make sure I got what I asked for. This is not to say that the difference approach does not work; it just that I am not smart enough to think my way through doing it correctly.

Please feel free to smack me in the future if I fall asleep again.

Lola

Spin9k

You mean our ENTIRE flash is in each data logging - if so nice!!

I see this approach as the answer; it's better to begin with (you don't lose any Mazda improvements like OMP metering) and moreover, ECU changes have settled down and are now few and far between nowadays...there's not been one in quite a while. Plus whatever you change is an absolute, not a scaled number

This sounds the same as above, are you saying read the maps only perhaps?

I left this part out - yea I got a headache

So to summarize:

1. If I do a data log and send you the file - you will therefore have my COMPLETE Flash and can directly edit what I ask for?

2. When I get the file back and reflash - my "U" flash will be intact except for the edits?

3. Rinse and repeat as required

This could be OH so NICE!!!

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I am much more apt to think that I will tune a Mazda flash level...and then keep it...until I see a change that Mazda makes to a new flash that make sense...based on criteria that I use to determine that.

I don't give a rats *** about some of the things they will address with a flash...like emissions, and to some extent fuel economy...I want a tune that addresses things like MOP flow rates and levels of tune that will FUBAR a CAT in no time.

The good thing is that we can now see WHAT Mazda is doing with the different flashes...and how it effects the car.

Hell...I would love to go back and do a retrospective look at what they have really done with all the different flashes in the past...it will sure give us an idea of what areas they have addressed, worried about...and perhaps not told us about...

Thanks for listening to my Easter Rant

lolachampcar

Spin9k,
All that is recorded in the ProLogger header file is the firmware tag (like N3Z2ET or N3Z2EU for the 2004). This is all that is needed to identify what flash is on the car.

If you want to start editing and send me your latest log showing me that you "own" a U firmware then I will make your changes to the U firmware and send it to you (Just the U with just your changes).

Dannobre,
The nice thing about the approach is you can stick with whatever flash version you want to. Remember, if you do not like something on the OMP, you can change it.

lolachampcar

I’m taking a small break from the forum. Please PM me if I can be of any service.

Tks, Lola

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmmmm!?
olddragger

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Kitchen got a bit too hot.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I'd say he is getting more fun from racing his single rotor shifter cart, or his champ car, or his LMP1 (Le-mans prototype) than copping some of the nonsense that has been going on around here.

Cheers,
Hymee.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Shame---damn shame. There are a lot of people that have a lot to offer the RX8 community. Bill is one. Hope he gets through having fun and makes it back.
olddragger

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

With the continuing harassment and getting a warning from an admin, I don't blame him for cooling it for a while.

zoom44

im sorry, i have spoken to a couple people who tell me bill is a great guy. but his comments and tactics over the last few days have not shown that. I hope he comes back after his driving adventure and adds more to this community than the negativity i have seen the last couple of days..because i believe he has allot to add

here's my problem with what has gone on-

a Cobb customer of Jeffs is having a problem with a tune. instead of contacting Jeff for a solution he is over at Bill's on a dyno. They see he is already lean and yet STILL put in a "stage 2 " LEANER map.

then Bill comes on here and very carefully insinuates Jeff is derelict in his support or incompetent in his tuning. with things like "this cobb stage 1 (im not sure but i think i was told this is MMs tune)" etc

hell i havent even read Jeffs directions but just from following the discussions here i can tell that you arent supposed to hop around from map to map like that. You start at one and let your trims build, if they are more than + a certain amount you go to a A map or if they are - over a certain amount you go to a B map etc.

thats not what Bill described as what was happening but yet he doesnt blame himself or the owner he tries to blame Jeff. It makes it look to me (and Jeff i can tell) as if Bill has a specific Agenda of either Discrediting Jeff or Cobb.

Thats the problem as i see it. I hope that ceases

HiTMaNN

Ahhh the forum Politics.....

sosonic

In this scenario, this is where Hymee's approach using "notes" makes sense. Well at least my understanding of what he is proposing to do.

If you place notes on why you made changes in your edit, than it can be used as a reference regardless if you upgrade to the new Mazda flash or just keep the present flash and modify it sometime later.

1. If you are taking an edit from a previous flash, you just go through your notes and compare values. Then make similar changes on the new Mazda flash.

You would not use a difference file, because that could be dangerous as you explained. You would look at your "notes" to see what you did on the previous flash and manually do them again on then new flash.

2. If you are keeping your existing flash, than the notes allow you to know what you have done previously (which could be say 4 months later).

3. Another, but more complicated scenario is possible with the "notes" approach.

A. You can copy your present flash and save it to your computer.
B. You can have Mazda reflash your car.
C. You can copy the new Mazda flash from your car.
D. You can compare both flashes on a computer.

This is where the "notes" again are helpful. You can look at what you edited on the previous flash (with the notes explaining why) AND compare NEW differences you find between the 2 flashes and make notes.

Then you can decide to stay with the old flash, but with updated changes, or go with the new Mazda flash with "enlightened" changes made as a result of your notes.

4. In Hymee's case, the "note" making version of his flash "viewer" software will be free. This allows for collaboration and even public inspection of why changes are being made to a flash.