WHealy

So this whole Stage II is very confusing to me. Obviously, I have no experience doing anything like this. So I’ve read everything I can and think I know what’s going on. I don’t want to send Maurice an email as I assume he’s still swamped. Can someone tell me if I’m going in the right direction?

Got this from a different post :


I assume all the MidP# items are replacements for the Catalytic Converter. Based on what I’ve read I’ve come to the following conclusions.

The mid-pipe just replaces the cat with another section of exhaust pipe. Totally illegal for street use as the cat is required.

The high flow cat is needed if you still want a cat on your car as Stage II increases the exhaust temp to the point that it would burn up the stock cat. But while the high flow cat still “covers” the cat requirement for street purposes, it really doesn’t resolve the legal issue in it’s entirety as you aren’t supposed to use anything other than the stock cat.

The resonator is used to dampen sound from the less restricted mid-pipe or cat. Without this as in CZ-MidP1 the exhaust note would be very loud.


So if I’m going down the right path with the above statements, I’m still lost on :

What is the O2 fooler needed/used for?

If Stage I and Stage II are the same price and can be upgraded for shipping cost, what about the spark plug heatsinks? Are those no longer needed or are those a separate purchase?

If you purchase the program and cable can you do the upgrade (and future upgrades) at home no longer needing to ship your CZ piggyback back? That’s described somewhat here:


Thanks in advance to anyone that can tell me what I’ve misstated and answer the questions posted.

emailists

You want stage 2? You can't handle stage 2....

(the above should be read in the Voice of Al PAcino)

Sorry I couldn't refuse.... but there are some good questions there- wish I could answer. I'm still waiting for my stage 1 order0 which should be in the next batch.

RobDickinson

I do believe CZ has stated that Stage II and stage III may not be street legal, and are more for 'track' use.

I guess that stage II with high flow cat may be street legal, but thats up to you to work out (given your country/state/laws).

CanZoomer JR

I am here to answer all your questions.

The o2 fooler is used for instances when there is no cat. Price list has been updated please check.

Spark plug heat sinks are no longer needed.

There will be kits to change your maps coming out soon. This means you will not need to ship us the unit back. You will be able to change maps from the comfort of your home.

You will however need to purchase one of the kits to make this possible. They are not yet out please wait for an announcment on pricing and details.

Remeber if you change the map you will need a new cat. wether you buy one by choice or burn out your stock one. :p

epitrochoid

I'm gonna jack the thread for a sec...

Is a catback exhaust system necessary for stg 2? i've always thought that it was, but now that I think about it, I don't see it mentioned anywhere.

WHealy

CZ Jr.,

Thanks for all the info. Still have one question. What's the resonator for?

Genom

Help lower the noise level a bit.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Coilpack/sparkplug heatsinks are no longer needed because the overheating coil issue has been resolved.

The Resonator will dampen the exhaust noise and take some of the raspiness out as well as quell the "droning" that can happen at cruise RPMs and drive the passengers crazy.

The O2 fooler may still be needed even with the high-flow CAT because the PCM is expecting the O2 levels to be higher than what a high-flow CAT can nominally produce.

Omicron

Shouldn't that be the voice of Jack Nicholsen?

Omicron

High temp/flow cat, definitely needed. Catback exhaust (aka, high flow muffler) is less so. But, why would you want the extra restriction of the stock muffler? Yes, the stock one is not bad, but a good catback would be better.

WHealy

OK I looked at pricing and now i have another question. There are 3 and 2& 1/2 inch version of the cat. Again, no experience here. What is the stock pipe? What woudl cause the size change? Aftermarket muffler? I relize the adaptive flange allows for the change and required welding. But if I go straight stock size (whatever that is) is this something I can install. I could get access to a lift but want to know if I could do the switch without it.

By the way, thanks for all the responses. Very informative to me.

RX-8 friend

First, just to clarify, the electronic hardware is the same for Stage 1 and Stage 2. The difference between Stage 1 and 2 is the fuel and timing map is adjusted for a higher flowing exhaust (high flow cat needed, and probably the resonator so you keep your sanity). Note that a Stage 2 map with the stock exhaust would probably not give a large HP improvement (and would trash the stock cat in short order by overheating it). Note also that the high flow exhaust will give best gains at high RPMs (above 8000).

Do you operate your car up there a lot? If not, Stage 2 may not be for you. I recommend getting Stage 1 for now, as the upgrade to Stage 2 can be done by the owner for a reasonable cost (not counting the cat and resonator). This way, if you see a "need" for Stage 2 you already have the electronic hardware, and just need to change the program in it (and the exhaust components).

Now, (puts sales suit on) Stage 3 is even neater. Much bling. You can load different maps "on the fly". You have a cool screen in the car that can display several different things. You can create your own map (wideband O2 sensor required). It does require some installation work. Two cables must be run from the Stage 1 module in the PCM box into the cab, and you have to access power in the cab for it.

As for the stock pipe, I'm not absolutely sure as I was only under the car once, but I think it's 2.5" (it varies but that is the smallest). To use the 3" effectively, you would replace the restricted parts of the system with 3" or larger.

fxdsconv2000

So with stage 3 we would have the ability to load Stage 1 or Stage 2 maps?

If I wanted the ability to run Stage 1 (with high flow CAT, etc..) then when I want load up Stage 2 or 3 on the fly?

Do we have an estimated due date for Stage 3?

RX-8 friend

Yes, and yes. The first unit is on the floor by Maurice's desk. I admire it every time I'm there. Probably will be available late spring early summer. You could buy it right now, but we haven't finished the Stage 2 maps yet so it wouldn't be too useful (unless you want to learn how to tune and have a wideband O2). It might be nice to install just to have a new gauge pack (it can be a tach, among other things) and be ready for the rest of the hardware but it requires the basic Stage 1 box to work. Also, the high flow exhaust isn't ready just yet, and you will need that to go beyond Stage 1. The high flow cat will include the "bungs" needed to install the stock O2 sensors as well as a wideband if you need to.

Again, Stage 3 requires the Stage 1 box, so you could start there if you're getting impatient.

It's a modular system you build on.

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

ok so if i read right you dont get no good hp from stage 2 till you hit 8000rpm?

RX-8 friend

No, you just don't get a huge increase. There will be an increase everywhere because we are going to be running even closer to stoic., REQUIRING good quality premium fuel. It's just that the engine will be more sensitive to poor fuel/alitude changes/humidity changes/temperature changes. You can't expect to just "put in gas and go". You will have to be a little more careful about what you're doing. I would expect the biggest improvement above 8000 RPM, due to the combination of the high flow exhaust and proper tuning for it.

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

ok i know your thinking this guys a dum @ss but i dont want to just thruogh my money iam going to buy the canzoomer upgrade but are not sure about some thinks .i dont mind using good premium fuel as i use it now exxon to be exact,you said you dont get a huge increase,you mean the 40 hp it makes is spread through the gears meaning 1,2,3,4,5,6 but mostly felt at 5,6 is that right? 2 you said it be more sensetive to humity and tempertures changes that means if the weather is to hot it could not run as good? thanks and sorry for so many questions but iam deciding between stage 1 and 2 i really want that extra 40hp

RX-8 friend

First, we don't know how much extra HP Stage 2 will give you yet, because we haven't run it with the high flow cat yet.

You're confusing vehicle speed with engine speed. If you look at the dyno plot in this section, imagine another line just above the one on the plot. The speed on the graph is actually RPM (it was left as speed because we were too lazy to mess with the image). As RPM increases, the new line will rise faster than the original one. Notice how the HP suddenly drops at 8700 or so. That probably will not happen with the high flow cat. Two ways to say it:
You will have more HP % wise at higher RPM than Stage 1. or
You have decreased the exhaust restriction that causes HP dropoff at high RPMs and it continues to rise.

High temperature and heavy load is one of the worst conditions you can operate a car tuned to the edge. If it's going to detonate, it will do it under those conditions, especially if you are operating at a lower altitude than the car was tuned for.

As I keep saying, you don't have to make the decision, as Stage 1 is part of Stage 2. Start there, and if you're not satisfied, move up. The cost is about the same.

The "new" Stage 1 works so well Maurice was considering not bothering with Stage 2, until I reminded him adding the high flow cat would require a new tune to take advantage of the better exhaust (he knew that already, just didn't think of it at the time).

Got to go. F1 is starting soon!

Oh, and I don't think there are dumb questions, just dumb answers.

JimW

hello RX-8 friend: So if one lived in south Fl. the stage 2 might not be such a good idea? If Shell 93 oct was used religiously would it still be a problem for us folks down here. I would still like to see something that improves low end power, maybe a program with 2 tunes for low and high end powergains. Take care.

H8RICEBOYS

I have a question:

I understand to run the Stage 2 a high-flow cat or test pipe is required.
Do any of the current aftermarket exhaust offerings include the test (mid) pipe that is needed?

Omicron

A high temp cat or midpipe is needed, because the Stage 2 exhaust temps are considerably higher. So much so that they will burn out the stock cat very quickly. A high temp cat just happens to be high flow too, so you also get the additional benefit of less exhaust restriction.

H8RICEBOYS

But do any of the current exhausts come with a midpipe needed for Stage 2?

vix8

I think some of them do offer variations that do offer a mid pipe, but in general most of what is discussed here are "catback" exhausts.

RX-8 friend

Well, I think we are getting confused here. The Stage 2 tune requires EITHER a high temp/flow cat OR a midpipe. Not both. If you look at the exhaust system, the cat unbolts. The mid-pipe bolts in its' place.

What we will offer is a high flow cat with a resonator (because the high flow cat will make the exhaust noisier). A mid-pipe is not a good idea for a car you will be driving anywhere other than a race track - not for legal reasons (though those exist), but to protect your hearing/sanity .