h0rde

I just wanted to put up some video evidence of what I'm calling "rough idle" with stage 1 installed, since I'm not the only one having this issue, so that we all know exactly what's going on when we talk about the problem (i hesitate to call it a problem but i can't think of a better word for it).

My car has stage 1.1 and the M flash, otherwise stock.

There are three videos, all very boring as the audio is more important.

Please right click and save the videos to minimize bandwidth useage, i'm hosting them myself. Each is only about 3 megs.

Video 1: Car started from cold, idling.

Video 2: Car driven for a few minutes, brought it back home, let it idle (notice the difference, this is what i would call the problem).

Video 3: Same conditions as video 2 but camera is at the front wheel to pick up engine idle sound instead of exhaust.

So guys with stage 1 let me know if this is the same type of thing that you're experiencing.

Velocity-8

Yup, I get the same idle with my CZ1.1 and the M flash.

The_Bean

Yep, me too. Idle seems lower/rougher. CZ stage 1. Mid pipe with resonator and high flow cat. Borla exhaust.

davefzr

damn.. you car sounds sick.. get it to a doctor.

bureau13

The statement has been made on numerous occasions that the CZ does not mess with the programming at idle. While this is probably true...something is messing with something! Has CZ or any of his associates offered any suggestions or ideas as to what could be causing this? Personally...it sounds to my uneducated and ill-informed self like a possible grounding problem or some other issue with electrical coupling. With the CZ in the circuit, if the grounds are off, that can affect all sorts of things like sensors, etc. Come to think of it, that could also explain much of the variability between cars that's getting blamed on the MAF sensor, etc.

Again, I don't know much about the inner workings of either the CZ box OR the FE electroncis (yet) but from my experience with the FD, seemingly minor things can mess with the electrical system just enough to make the whole thing work very, very poorly.

Omicron

RX8-friend or CanZoomer himself would be the best ones to jump in here and field this question, but I can tell you this: It's not that simple. Maurice and I have discussed it at length, and suffice it to say he is indeed aware of this and is working on it.

PoLaK

iTrader: (1)

Take the Unit out of the car see if the same thing happens. M flash IMHO is entirely too lean and although it won't be as noticeable you still will get a rough idle.

My car, when cold, pings stock at 3000 rpms. My car runs leaner stock then most RX-8's due to a .2-.3V variance in the 4 volt MAF senor. In return I have a more powerful car stock then most, but in return im at such an extreme that a generic stage 1 won't work for my car.

FYI I've done a magazine article for rxtuner that I will be releasing to the forum shortly. It includes conclusive tests of stage one, headaches, logging, dyno runs out the wazzoo. I've done about 3 hours of on the road logging tuning Maurice and I are working toward a solution that will tailor a custom tune for my car and in return build a piece of software that will make a custom tune for everyone’s car.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

How did you test for the MAF sensor variance?

I'm thinking that I must have a freak car like yours since I get amazing gas miliage all the time and managed to smoke a 02 Mustang GT and a slightly modded WRX....

PoLaK

iTrader: (1)

I took the tuning cable hooked it up to CZ-1 and had a buddy sit in the passenger seat with a laptop.

He would hit record inside the E-manage software where we pre-determined that we would record Throttle position %, Total Air Flow adjustment, MAF Voltage Input (what the stock may is set to), MAF Voltage Output (What CZ-1 sets it too), as well as ignition advance. I would accelerate to about 3000 rpms in a given gear tell him to record floor it, tell him to "stop recording" at 9000rpms and have a log for that gear.

Then I took a look at my MAF input and a log Canzoomer did on his car. His car with the same map in the same gear at the same rpm would be about .2v lower then mine, both stock.

Were not talking 20-30 hp more then your average RX-8 but a max of 5-7 crank hp is reasonable.

Remember i was the guy that got 31MPG im on a 25-6mpg tank right now.

h0rde

thanks for the discussion so far guys, I hope maurice or someone as qualified does something to address this issue for us, because the way the car sounds does worry me a bit and I'm not sure if I'm pushing my luck continuing to run it as-is.

bureau13

I certainly didn't mean to imply that there was anything simple about it. I had to replace my entire main engine wiring harness on my FD, despite the fact that nothing appeared to be wrong with it, because the car was mysteriously never entering closed-loop mode. I stilll don't know what was wrong with the harness, and the ECU was seeing results from all the sensors that were within the expected range, as I got no error codes. These things can be downright demons to diagnose properly.

If you know the general idea of what they think is happening I'd like to know...if the software isn't doing anything to at idle, but it screws up the idle when attached...I don't know what else it could be, frankly, and I'm curious.

jds

RX-8 friend

We are working on identifying what is happening. Maurice's car idles rough from time to time, but it doen't correspond with running on the Stage 1/2 box. We did some measurements tonight that may lead us to a better understanding. Will get back to you on that.

DJ Freon

Just a word from the other side. I have the CZ1.1 installed and my car has been smooth and fine since day 1. I installed it the same day I got the M flash, and it runs perfectly. Seems to have more power (my friends agree), my gas milage went up (may be M flash, may be CZ), and the idle is smooth and fine. Just wanted to have something positive, if not constructive. Once I have some serious time with the CZ I'll turn it off and document G-tech runs and milage. I've had the CZ in for almost 2 months, and almost 3000 miles. Once I've gone through an entire oil change I'll turn it off and go a while without.

DOMINION

Sounds like its runnig too rich?

h0rde

thanks, keep us posted!

leegina

My idle was low but I reset the ecu and took it for a drive and it seems to be fine.

Konfyoused

Hey all!
I'd just like to say thanx for putting up such a great forum, and thanx to maurice for doing such a great job, and being so dedicated to this. I plan on purchasing my RX-8 when i get back from being a part of Operation Iraqi Freedom II, and do plan on making the Stage1 upgrade at that time.

I was just wanting to ask something which may possibly be a stupid question about the rough idle problem/no power gain problem some people are experiencing with the Stage1, has ANYONE thought to look to faulty ignition components as a possible culprit? it could be that the lead plugs arent up to the task as they should be, then again, it could be a coil breaking down, or to expand on what someone else said earlier, it could even be something to do with a grounding issue in the ignition circuit. Im not trying to insult anyones intellegence, but sometimes the basic things are what we tend to overlook the most.:D

shebam

Going way back, the first mod my attention was drawn to was the ground wire enhancement, which was touted as having several positive effects, including smoothing out the idle. I wonder whether any folks who installed a ground wire kit are experiencing rough idle with the present CZ and M flashes? I'm not. Mine is in the acceptable category -- smooth with occasional very tiny "stumbles."

Omicron

I have the ground wire setup, M flash, and CZ St1.1, and no idle problems other than what shebam mentions. Maybe it was worth the $50 I spent on the ground wires after all! :D

davefzr

But didnt you get your 1.1 customizied by a tuning shop? I thought I remember reading that somewhere.....

shebam

My recollection is that Omi was GONNA do that for an altitude adjustment. But of course he'll speak for himself ....

Omicron

Omi has tuned his CanZoomer mod for the altitude. Did it myself. Runs stong now. :D

DJ Freon

How do you do that without destroying the map that Maurice put in the box to start? I thought it was protected so you couldn't modify his map. If you wanted to do custom tuning you had to start from scratch. Has that changed?

Twin 8s!

M flash in for more than a month. Gas mileage improved even though I started using the AC more... (FL in Jun )

CZ 1.1 installed on 19 Jun. Faster 0-60, gas mileage increased again. I will get more accurate data on mileage after I learn to back off the gas a little... having FUN!!

I have noticed a slightly rough idle but nothing like the vid. I have compared my idle to my wife's RX8 and there is only minor differences.

With all this said, I think the comments related to faulty components are very possible. Please remember, these are OEM parts and they could easily be the problem.

Hope some of you smart folks solve this for the forum. In the meantime... I am REALLY enjoying the CZ and my 8.

Later

Omicron

I start with the original CanZoomer as my "baseline" map, then build on that for "my" map. I think he's dropped the password thing, as I've never needed it. But if you have a version with a passworded map, he'll share the password with you if you call him.