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Some nub questions - looking for a little direction
So I got this 04, and its got a turbo which just seemed like something that would be cool, but I didn't really do enough research before I bought it. Because I'm an idiot. Owning this car is definitely going to be a bit more involved than I anticipated and I bought it from a dealership of morons so I can't go and talk to the previous owner about whats been done. Made a thread elsewhere trying to identify some mystery wires and with a bit of help determined that they belong to the boost controller - which is plugged into nothing. So I am kind of on a mission right now to just determine whats been done to the car, why things arent plugged in, how its been tuned, and who knows what other nightmares await. From my intro thread talking to people we briefly spoke about the ecu and it seemed the general consensus was that it appeared unmessed with visually which leads to the belief that it was flash tuned - I think. At this point that is assuming that it has been tuned at all to accommodate the turbo. Would it even run with a stock tune and a turbo? How can I set about to seeing how its been tuned? Right now Im not driving it, it had started stumbling around 6k rpm and losing power, which I had originally attributed to ignition problems so I am replacing the coils and plugs and wires but having found the turbo controller not plugged into anything I hesitate to do much more in the way of testing before I can get more information. At this point I'm not even certain that I am asking all the right questions, so I am really just looking for direction, where I should be looking and as is the case with how its tuned - how to look. This is the first car that I've had that tuning was even a concern so I am really just learning as I go and trying not to break anything expensive in the process.
The boost controller not being plugged in is weird but fixable. Either by completing the wiring based on its manual (its an E-01 right?), or by removing it entirely and letting the wastegate operate on its own. I would go with the second option for now.
Then, do you have any gauges in addition to the stock dash? At least a boost gauge would be important. Not that you should go into boost until you have sorted out what's what.
How familiar are you with the general operation of a turbocharged engine? Can you identify what turbo is on there and if everything is piped properly (or at least, the pipes are attached to each other)? Post pictures, might give us a better idea.
Next we need data. Do you have an OBD2 reader with which you can scan for codes and read live sensor data? I would be looking for a log of airflow g/sec, fuel injector duty cycle, AFR, short and long term fuel trims and rpm on a fully warmed up idle. This will tell us a few things: if it's generally in the right ballpark for airflow measurement, if it has had the injectors changed and tuned for the larger injectors, and maybe some clues to the power loss at 6k.
Flash tuning is definitely better than the older piggyback tuners, and if you intend to keep this project, you are going to need some sort of tuner. Check the glovebox or under the seats for an AccessPort, in case it came with the car. That would be best case. Otherwise start shopping for VersaTune or MazdaEdit.
Once we have more info we can figure out where to go from there.
Does the car restart easily if you shut it off warm?
E-01 is correct. I do have an obd2 reader that can log data, I dont know yet if it can log everything you talked about but I will check. It does have a boost gauge but from the little driving I have done so far I cant be certain it works. It never moves. I do have a basic understanding of how a turbo charged engine works and while I can't tell you exactly what turbo is on it, I can say with some certainty that all the parts are there and everything is connected. I've got some, pictures of the turbo, and various other plumbing bits from the top - dont know if they will show enough to be helpful but I will post them. Yes the car restarts easily when shut off warm. Not entirely certain what the little blue tube is for but the clear tube that Tees off of it I believe goes to the boost gauge.
Also - with regards to the tuner. For my purposes is there any benefit really to the full version of versa or would the lite version likely be sufficient? Im not really looking to race or try to squeeze every ounce of power out of this thing that is possible. I just want it to function properly and be reasonably reliable lol.
K looks like the old Greddy kit. I think it originally came with an Emanage, but it's a good thing that emanage is not in there now :/
Looks like you have a manual boost controller in the blue line, so the E-01 isn't doing a heck of a lot.
All those unclamped vacuum lines make me nervous on a boosted setup, but it's probably not the biggest problem. The blue line looks like it sends manifold pressure to the wastegate and that clear line is not connected to anything, it's a vacuum leak and needs to be closed or made to work.
Never used VersaTune myself, lite is probably fine to get started?
For some reason I'm personally excited for this project. My last turbo adventure is 12 years ago, it's bringing back good memories.
Well I appreciate all the help I can get, I was kind of dreading digging into this because there are so many unknowns, so I am glad one of us is excited lol!
So the clear tube, I was able to confirm that it does in fact go to the boost gauge. The gauge has never moved so I dont know if thats a broken gauge or just how things are setup right now. As for why the blue line is hooked where its hooked I am just going to have to shrug on that one lol. If it would be better to move it somewhere else Im sure that would be easy enough to do.
As far as the sensor logging goes, I still have new spark plugs to put in, and my shop is a carport with a concrete pad. its like 35 degrees and windy so im going to wait for a less unpleasant day to do that. Then I will drive it around a bit, and share my findings. I will also get versatuner and probably spend a week downloading that. My internet is from the stoneage and its awful.
So it wont take as long as I thought. I've got the program, will have the interface tomorrow. If its cold tomorrow too I may just suck it up and do the work I want to get done and get those logs taken so we can see just how wonky things are in there lol
So the interface finally came in - amazon can be sooooo slow sometimes. Didnt get the chance to go for a drive today to get those logs. Something I did notice fiddling with versatuner a little bit, it gave me a warning that the ecu has a flash tune on it and that installing versatuner over that could potentially kill it. How seriously should I take that warning? I know with computer stuff thats become an obligatory warning for somethings even though its not that big a risk with newer stuff anymore.
Looks pretty good. Fuel trims are near 0 and stable. That says one of two things: the injectors were changed and the car returned for them, or the injectors were not changed and the car not tuned (at least a base tune).
If you can figure out what injectors are in there, that will narrow it down.
Can you log injector pulse width / duty cycle at idle? I can compare to my own stock logs. If the injectors were changed, we'll have different duty cycles for the same airflow.
well.... I cant imagine how the boost gauge could possibly function properly when its plumbed in line to a hose with a "controlled" leak. Its not going to be able to read correctly when it cant pressurize correctly. Not to mention how long that line is will cause you some headaches. Can you track where it connects to at the end opposite of the turbo and get a picture of it? Also get a picture/name brand for that boost gauge, might not be a trustworthy measurement tool and a good idea to replace.
Next time I an out there I will get a picture of the gauge for you, I think the name might be on the face. As well as a photo of where that line connects.
Also yes, I can definitely log the injector pulse width for you, and will do that tomorrow. Right now its dark and cold out lol.
Okie doke - the gauge, where that blue line goes, I added injector pulse width to the same bunch as yesterday and did another one with less in case you didn't need all that information again.
So I compared the injector pulse widths to my N/A ones and whats weird is yours are in thousands of ms -- so like 3 seconds long. Thats crazy. Assuming thats just a logger problem and 3000=3ms, your pulse widths are about 0.5ms lower than mine for the same airflow, which points to the car having larger injectors and a tune. Confirm visually, of course, but its a good sign.
Your kit has potential... but whoever installed/maintained it probably needs help putting their pants on facing the right way.
Your wastegate signal is connecting up to your unused vfad tube.. which doesn't see boost at all nor vacuum. That's a huge problem.
I personally would switch out that boost gauge... but for the time being just keep it. Assuming we can get it to function properly once your system is correctly setup.
Your bypass valve (recirculating blow off valve) is missing a hose clamp.
Get rid of the turbosmart bleed valve/manual boost controller for the time being. Don't throw it away, but don't use it.
Put the vacuum hose clamp for the brake booster line back on correctly.
You need to get your bumper removed so you can entirely remove the VFAD from your car. Then do yourself a favor and route your filter to where the VFAD was at between the crash bar and bumper cover so you aren't pulling hot engine bay air.
Whats up with the cheap, discolored clear/tan/brown cable in the engine bay? Where is it going? That might need to go too.
Just behind your throttle body on the bottom corner of your upper intake manifold there should be a vacuum port for your VFAD. It should no longer be used for the VFAD since your 8 is turbocharged. What is connected to it now? Or is it broken off? Capped off?
A little bit further back on the bottom of your upper intake manifold, close to your oil filter, there should be another vacuum port with a hose and check valve connected to it... is that also still there and intact? Could you get a picture of that so we can be sure the check valve is oriented the correct way? And in that air line by the oil filer between the upper manifold nipple and that check valve would be a good spot to put the tee-fitting for your boost gauge.
The previous owner seemed to be in love with gluing stuff in place, I will find a way to remove that gauge if it becomes necessary, but it wont be pretty so I am praying to the car gods that we can make it function. I also don't think he believed in clamping much of anything lol so there are probably many of them missing.
That clear looking cable, if its what I think you're talking about it is an additional ground wire.
As far as VFAD removal and relocating the filter - that sounds like a fantastic idea and I will definitely do that.
I will also investigate those vacuum ports and get back to you with pictures. Also going to have a look at the injectors - are they marked in some way or color coded that will tell me whether they are stock or larger? I am going to use a bore scope to have a look down there rather than take the intake apart to get a better view. I will try to take pictures of those too if my plan with the scope works out.
If you make yourself available at approximately 8pm EST, and assuming you have Instagram, you can video chat with me and I can go over many components with you within a 5 minute window. You can also use that to interact with me much faster than on here, send pictures easier, and I can more easily provide you links to products you could use. I'm currently in the process of redesigning my turbo intake, so I could end up with parts you could purchase from me to bolt right onto your car and make things work easily. I could even fabricate up some parts for you if need be to make things easier. Wouldn't charge labor if so, just whatever parts cost plus shipping cost. I've had plenty of people help me lots over the last 10-1/2 years from this community, just want to pay that forward.
If you do, you'll have a easy way to reach me (via message) at nearly any time with any questions especially relating to your turbo components. If you do, simply give me a follow and send me a message to let me know its you, we can go from there.
02-02-2021, 05:24 AM
