Hey all,

I had the "L" reflash done last week (varified it as well), and today CZ sent me back my Stage 1 or now the "Stage 1.1"

I'm sad to say, that I've got problems. First of all, I'd want to say this is not a "bash" of CZ, so don't take it that way (we all appreciate his efforts).

Ok, my car runs fine with no Stage 1 and with Stage 1 turned off. Well, I reinstalled it at about 4:30 this afternoon and took it out for some runs. I'm not RotaryGod, but I'll "try" to explain what happened. Cruising along at about 4000 rpm's, 3rd gear, 40 mph, I get some open road and hammer on it (pedal near the floor). The car accelerates smoothly and strongly until I reach 6500 rpm. All hell seemed to break loose at this point, and I feel the car just "stop" accelerating, as though it lost ALL fuel. I hear a sound unlike any I've ever heard. My best description is a "clanging" or maybe a "rattling." Neither of those are accurate descriptions of the sound I heard. I took me a second or two to react and let off the throttle. The car just wouldn't go past this "sticking point," at 6500. It scared the **** out of me. This car is new and only has 1460 miles on it, so you can imagine what I'm thinking.

After letting off, it regained its composure and seemed to run fine again. Call me stupid, but I tried it again, a couple of times. And of the five or six times (accelerating from 4000 to 6500 or so, in 3rd gear), it did it twice more. I noticed this happen a couple of times previous to the 1.1 upgrade and the "L" reflash, and i sent my unit back thinking it was a "glitch."

I'm leery, disappointed, and frusterated at this point. Any input, questions, or answers are welcome. I'm just hoping, at this point, CZ will just let me return it for a credit. God, I hope so...

Again, I state that this IS NOT a CZ bash. He's been great to all of us, but I felt it necessary to post these issues, as they are important enough to be told.

 

As seen in another post, could this possibly be detonation? What octane are you running?

 

92 octane.

 

After reinstalling the CZ box, did you leave the battery off and step on the brake pedal for 30 seconds or so to reset the PCM?

Additionally, it would be a good experiment to try higher octane and/or toluene if it is indeed detonation.

 

No thanks, I've done all the experimenting that I'm going to do with this unit. I'm back to stock and staying that way. Anymore experiments like this one, and my motor may go bye, bye...

 

mdw33333 please let us now if canzoomer has solve the problem iam in the works of buying stage 2 from him ,i dont want to cough 600$ and the think gives me problems,again please take the time to let us know what hes suggesting.as i only heard you having problems thanks

 

I'm sure he'll work it out. He's a sharp guy and knows what he's doing. My guess is that this might be a altitude issue or something. I'm at sea level and he's not, so that could be the difference. Who knows?

For those could are considering this mod, I'm sure it'll eventually be safe all the way around, but being so new, it needs tweeked a bit.

 

mdw3333 -- before you make the assumption that your engine issues are a result of poor programing of CZ's Stage 1.1 for your altitude you really should do more testing. If you aren't interesting in determing the exact cause of the problem -- then just state you had an issue -- don't put a presumption of fault on any one particular variable. If you want to relay that you have had an issue -- then thanks for the heads up. But to take it further and make the presumption that it CZ's mod is incorrect at this time -- you just don't have enough data to make that statement. There are a lot of variables at play in this situation and simply removing Stage 1, taking a few runs and saying no more problem -- must have been poor programming -- is just not right at this time. May very well be the case but that isn't known yet.

If it is a programming issue on the fuel maps -- then why are you the only one who has so far posted an issue. If it is just CZ's Stage 1.1, then why has another member posted the same issue and they don't have CZ's mod installed?

I don't think we really know what has happened with your car yet and to put it all on CZ's mod is just too far of presumption to make at this point in time IMO.

 

Ok, did you actually read my post and comprehend it or not? It's really simple, the car runs great before L reflash and after it. The car runs great before Stage 1 and experiences detonation on multiple occasions after installing it. Hello?

How can I not believe it's the Stage 1? I'm not a moron, I'm not "assuming" anything. I've made multiple runs with and without the Stage 1, the Stage 1.1, and the "L" reflash. I'm no expert, but I do believe I HAVE enough data to suggest that it's Stage 1 related.

 

But something else on your car may be miscalibrated or slightly damaged or whatever such that it is causing your engine to run at the edge. When you install Stage 1, it may be pushed over that edge.

If this scenario is the case, you could argue that TECHNICALLY Stage 1 is the "cause" but LOGICALLY Stage 1 is running perfectly and everything would be running great if your car was fine in the very beginning.

Whatever is the culprit, you don't have enough testing to know.

 

Why is this thread in two places?

 

Just for the record, I've just installed Stage 1.1 with "L" reflash and I'm not having any problems. So it's probably not a general problem with 1.1 and "L".

 

Sounds like you need to send it back to CZ for him to evaluate. Could be a bad unit? CZ is good, most excellent actually, but I don't believe his operation is 6-sigma yet.

CZ could check out this particular unit and come back with a report (hopefully to the forum, since it has come to the attention of the forum, and we are all concerned). The unit is either in good condition or it is faulted, and so, CZ needs to get his paws on it.

On the other side of the coin, what remote chance is there that you got a poor re-flash of "L"? It would have to be something that causes it's operation to be ok (marginal maybe?) without stage 1 and in puke-mode ("over the edge") with stage 1. If CZ comes back & says that your unit is perfectly fine, you may want to at least consider this possibility.

6500 is where stage 1 really shows its stuff (at least, that's what it was before the new L & 1.1). I'll bet CZ will know exactly where to look, what to think about this problem.

Sorry to hear about this guy & I know what you mean about not wanting to cause your engine to puke anymore. That's got to be a suky thing to experience.

 

Thanks Mike.

As I said to you on the phone last week, send it back, and we will refund your money.

I do not know why your car does not like the unit, and without getting my hands on your car I can only speculate.

Knock, ping, which is what you are seeing , can generally be caused by two or three different things in this case:
1) Fuel - It is possible you may be getting gas that is not sufficient in terms of anti-knock, commonly described as "octane rating"

I would turn off our unit, finish your tank of gas, then try a different brand of fuel. Personally I likle Shell, but others are fine as well.

2) Malfuntioning component. If you MAF sensor or barometric sensor are malfuntioning it could cause this.

3) You have not fed the gremlins after midnight, have you?

Anyway, I can't diagnose a car over the phone, so best bet is to give up, and advise you to be patient to see if we find an other car with similar symptoms, closer at hand, that we may diagnose.

Thanks for the post!

 

You are right. We do NOT know.
His car did the same thing with the earlier version too.
Having tried both version with the same results, i know his car is unusual.

I have asked him to NOT test it any more.

I don't want to see his engine broken.

If anybody gets severe knocking, as he has described I do NOT want them to continue to run with our unit on if you are seeing knock/ping/severe power loss.

The proper procedure is to turn it off, wait until you have a new tank of gas, turn it on again, and if the problem continues, CALL ME!!

 

Actually I do NOT know.

We have sent Mike 2 units, one of Stage1 and one if the new ones

BTW, new ones are NOT called 1.1

There is no longer Stage1 and Stage2, only different programming maps.
We added ignition control andother changes and all units are now identical in hardware, just programming varies.

Anyway, back on topic:
We sent him two units, over the past month, old style and new style.
Both gave the same results.

The last one I personally tested on my car before i shipped it.
Ran it aorund, did a couple of WOT runs, no problems.

I am running Shell 91 octane.

So, i can conclude something about his car is "different"
It is not likely to be the flash, the computer, or anything like that.
Things I suspect are fuel, MAF, Baro sensor..

However suspecting something is a moot point.
He does not have the tools, skillset, parts, or otherwise to do the diagnostics, the car seems to run OK stock, so there is nothing his dealer can do for him, and he is a long way away from us.
Besides he did not volunteer to be a guinea pig, and I do not expect him to be one.

I am open to suggestions, but as of now all we can do is refund his money.

 

Maurice... does this seem to be a one-off thing?

I've heard from plenty of others at low altitudes with L-flash and 1.1 and they don't seem to have issues...

 

We are at 3,000 feet altitude, and I do tuning here.
Then I offset AFR by amount to correspond to current barometric pressure, the I back off by 0.15 to allow for sea level versus current altitude.

BTW, did you know that weather conditions are equivalent to a range of 5,000 feet of altitude?

Also, the RX-8 determines air flow by using a MAF ( Mass Air FLOW) meter, then mutiplying the result by the pressure detected by the barometric pressure sensor?

In the case we are discussing here I suspect he has a bad or failing baro sensor.

But I have no way to test that remotely!

 

question about the L reflash- it is necesary to remove the canzoomer unit before getting the reflash- will the dealer see the unit when doing the reflash- I undetstand at a minimum you need to turn the unit off..

Canzoomer, again, in order to upgrade to the new map, I need to send you my old unit and pay for shipping?

 

Just turning your unit off prior to the reflash should be fine.

And you are correct, in order to upgrade to the new map you need to send CanZoomer your old unit and pay for return shipping. At least, that'd what I have to do, and anyone else who got one of the first production units.

 

Maurice,

You don't think it's possible that your tuning is too aggressive to allow for such things as bad fuel?

Just wondering...

Vince

 

This is off topic but I wonder how addition of a barometric sensor into the mix complicates forced air designs?
________
LOVE LYRICS FORUM

 

Define "too aggressive"
Lots of cars being sold nowadays specifically require Premium, 91 octane or better.

With our unit we recommend 89 or better..
Having said that, 91 is always safer.

Let's put it this way:
There is no such thing as a "free lunch"
If you are going to run more advance, and a leaner mixture than stock, running 91 is simply a safer measure.

But if you get a bad tank of gas, then it may ping, even if running stock.
If you DO get a bad tank, it is only about 1 minute to pop open the ECU cover, and slide the switch to the off position..

If you are asking about Stage2 tuning m, that is a very different story. with Stage2 you can NOT run on a bad tankful. But hte same temporary fix applies. Turn it off and you are back at stock.
Then you can find a better gas station after you use up that tank.

If you want the most flexible, and safest solution, get the Stage3 kit, whcih allows you to load and run different maps from the comfort of the cab of your car.

 

Simple: You don;t use the baro for tuning.
Positive pressure requires the addition of a MAP (pressure sensor) instead of the MAF.
Then you may want a boost controller if you desire to change boost levels on the fly.

Our Stage1/2 kit has the input socket for the MAP.
Stage3 Pro adds boost controller.

We evenhave an optional wireless temporary boost or NoS trigger switch that mounts on the steering wheel..

 

My definition of too aggressive tuning would be tuning for an extra 5HP but tripling the risk of hurting an engine.

Vince