Define "rice"
10-31-2003, 06:31 AM
#28
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Originally posted by mikeb
you are missing the point all together jtimbck2
you are missing the point all together jtimbck2
I think eccles's post in this thread sums it up best -- "rice" is an extremely subjective term.
10-31-2003, 05:20 PM
#32
Sit on My FACE!!!
the term " rice " is usually said by people that have no understanding of customizing a car or the indrustry. Rice is referring to the import car market. So yes your RX8 are rice rockets too...... But its ok!
10-31-2003, 08:11 PM
#33
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Actually, I don't think it's so much that "rice is relative", its just that some like rice and some don't.
However--
I actually kind of like this. There's no ludicrous wing, no crazy "sponsored by" stickers in Japanese, tasteful wheels/paint, and the bodykit (as far as I can tell) was not inspired by anime robots. I don't know why people bash you for the BMW fender vents when the RX8 strakes are a flagrant Mercedes ripoff (both look cool IMO...it's not like ALL the panels are BMW and you're trying to pass it off as one). The suspension is a bit too low but it's clearly an airbag suspension at rest, and only the hood is borderline ricey.
So basically I wouldn't say your car is rice. I personally would not spend that kind of time/money on any economy car, but other than that and the hood I can't really find much fault with it.
However--
I actually kind of like this. There's no ludicrous wing, no crazy "sponsored by" stickers in Japanese, tasteful wheels/paint, and the bodykit (as far as I can tell) was not inspired by anime robots. I don't know why people bash you for the BMW fender vents when the RX8 strakes are a flagrant Mercedes ripoff (both look cool IMO...it's not like ALL the panels are BMW and you're trying to pass it off as one). The suspension is a bit too low but it's clearly an airbag suspension at rest, and only the hood is borderline ricey.
So basically I wouldn't say your car is rice. I personally would not spend that kind of time/money on any economy car, but other than that and the hood I can't really find much fault with it.
11-01-2003, 06:06 PM
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Mike's former car is clearly NOT rice, to me anyway. I think it's nice looking (and I'm 41, not 16) and it's also a good example of present day mod and automotive art. I think Boozehound said it best in the "My car was stolen" thread:
Originally posted by Boozehound
I'm not sure why everyone wants to rag on the car - if you're interested in it, you like, you work on it, and you paid for it - rock on. That's what car culture's about. The oldschool vans of the 70s, lowriders, postwar hotrods, roadsters from the dry lake beds, etc. Don't just own it - make it yours. Who gives a $hit what other people think.
I'm not sure why everyone wants to rag on the car - if you're interested in it, you like, you work on it, and you paid for it - rock on. That's what car culture's about. The oldschool vans of the 70s, lowriders, postwar hotrods, roadsters from the dry lake beds, etc. Don't just own it - make it yours. Who gives a $hit what other people think.
11-01-2003, 07:07 PM
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I think Mike's car was a victim of people lashing out at any Honda Civic that has any body mods. There is now a stigma attached to such mods.
His car has mostly tasteful mods. The wing is small, but adds a nice touch to the back and there was obviously some heavy custom interior work that is very tasteful, IMO. The only thing I don't really approve of is the M3 side vents, but that is very minor.
Like I said in his stolen car thread, not my cup of tea, but nicely done.
Back on topic:
My definition of rice is something flagrantly over the top or advertising something the car doesn't have .:cough, cough:. Integra Type R .:cough, cough:.
His car has mostly tasteful mods. The wing is small, but adds a nice touch to the back and there was obviously some heavy custom interior work that is very tasteful, IMO. The only thing I don't really approve of is the M3 side vents, but that is very minor.
Like I said in his stolen car thread, not my cup of tea, but nicely done.
Back on topic:
My definition of rice is something flagrantly over the top or advertising something the car doesn't have .:cough, cough:. Integra Type R .:cough, cough:.
11-01-2003, 11:11 PM
#37
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Originally posted by rabinabo
It's synonymous with putting a sock in your underpants or stuffing your bra, projecting something you don't have.
It's synonymous with putting a sock in your underpants or stuffing your bra, projecting something you don't have.
Examples of the first (pretend mods) - one of the definitive Rice mods, a "Type R" sticker on anything that didn't leave the Honda (Acura) factory as a Type R.
Examples of the second - big wings that just add drag and weight, but don't add any downforce. They steal the race car look, but don't really add the functionality that the race version does. Most of the "ground effects" or Veilside body kits fall into this category - they are heavy fiberglass so actually slow the car down, and add drag at the same time. Buyers think they make the car look faster, but in fact they make the car slower. That's rice, the pretence of performance enhancement rather than actual performance enhancement!
Regards,
Gordon
11-02-2003, 01:47 AM
#38
Prodigal Wankler
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Examples of the second - big wings that just add drag and weight, but don't add any downforce.
Examples of the second - big wings that just add drag and weight, but don't add any downforce.
11-03-2003, 01:57 PM
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You may want to check your facts actually Veilside body kits are at least 1/2 the weight of OEM parts. (at least for the fiberglass pieces) two of the veilside skylines use body kits, and in total have produced 3 world records. So a body kit can be functional.
Rice is what i eat everyday. It comes in different varieties and has different members of the family. It is also a very important ingredient in Japanese food & culture...ie sushi, and sake.
The term rice has been far abused. There is gaudy and there is tastelessness. But there really isn't a true definition of rice, as it's all opinion.
Rice is what i eat everyday. It comes in different varieties and has different members of the family. It is also a very important ingredient in Japanese food & culture...ie sushi, and sake.
The term rice has been far abused. There is gaudy and there is tastelessness. But there really isn't a true definition of rice, as it's all opinion.
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
That's it! Rice isn't just whether a mod enhances performance or not - Rice is pretending to have performance mods that you don't actually have, or adding mods that should add performance but actually detract from performance.
Examples of the first (pretend mods) - one of the definitive Rice mods, a "Type R" sticker on anything that didn't leave the Honda (Acura) factory as a Type R.
Examples of the second - big wings that just add drag and weight, but don't add any downforce. They steal the race car look, but don't really add the functionality that the race version does. Most of the "ground effects" or Veilside body kits fall into this category - they are heavy fiberglass so actually slow the car down, and add drag at the same time. Buyers think they make the car look faster, but in fact they make the car slower. That's rice, the pretence of performance enhancement rather than actual performance enhancement!
Regards,
Gordon
That's it! Rice isn't just whether a mod enhances performance or not - Rice is pretending to have performance mods that you don't actually have, or adding mods that should add performance but actually detract from performance.
Examples of the first (pretend mods) - one of the definitive Rice mods, a "Type R" sticker on anything that didn't leave the Honda (Acura) factory as a Type R.
Examples of the second - big wings that just add drag and weight, but don't add any downforce. They steal the race car look, but don't really add the functionality that the race version does. Most of the "ground effects" or Veilside body kits fall into this category - they are heavy fiberglass so actually slow the car down, and add drag at the same time. Buyers think they make the car look faster, but in fact they make the car slower. That's rice, the pretence of performance enhancement rather than actual performance enhancement!
Regards,
Gordon
11-03-2003, 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by swifty949
You may want to check your facts actually Veilside body kits are at least 1/2 the weight of OEM parts. (at least for the fiberglass pieces) two of the veilside skylines use body kits, and in total have produced 3 world records. So a body kit can be functional.
You may want to check your facts actually Veilside body kits are at least 1/2 the weight of OEM parts. (at least for the fiberglass pieces) two of the veilside skylines use body kits, and in total have produced 3 world records. So a body kit can be functional.
"they have a wind tunnel"... and?? any PhD's in fluid dynamics employed there?? have they ever produced aerodynamic numbers and disclosed to the public?? please. it's all style, with big *** holes punched in it. produce proof, and i will believe.
some are functional, vielside is not. high style for the show-car crowd, but not the height of high speed engineering (it's the motors, not the aero of the cars that's making all the difference)
btw, fibreglass will never be lighter than the stock panels (unless it's too flimsy to use in world speed records). polyurethane (the very pricey stuff) can be, though, as can aluminum, well done (ie, not rice) carbon fibre, and other materials as well...
Last edited by wakeech; 11-03-2003 at 05:18 PM.
11-03-2003, 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by wakeech
gimme a break, moogle and i got into a little debate about this: in short, i win, Vielside is a joke.
"they have a wind tunnel"... and?? any PhD's in fluid dynamics employed there?? have they ever produced aerodynamic numbers and disclosed to the public?? please. it's all style, with big *** holes punched in it. produce proof, and i will believe.
some are functional, vielside is not. high style for the show-car crowd, but not the height of high speed engineering (it's the motors, not the aero of the cars that's making all the difference)
btw, fibreglass will never be lighter than the stock panels (unless it's too flimsy to use in world speed records). polyurethane (the very pricey stuff) can be, though, as can aluminum, well done (ie, not rice) carbon fibre, and other materials as well...
gimme a break, moogle and i got into a little debate about this: in short, i win, Vielside is a joke.
"they have a wind tunnel"... and?? any PhD's in fluid dynamics employed there?? have they ever produced aerodynamic numbers and disclosed to the public?? please. it's all style, with big *** holes punched in it. produce proof, and i will believe.
some are functional, vielside is not. high style for the show-car crowd, but not the height of high speed engineering (it's the motors, not the aero of the cars that's making all the difference)
btw, fibreglass will never be lighter than the stock panels (unless it's too flimsy to use in world speed records). polyurethane (the very pricey stuff) can be, though, as can aluminum, well done (ie, not rice) carbon fibre, and other materials as well...
So your telling me this body kit is not designed for performance, and veilside is a joke??? You better do some more actual research instead of getting the wrong information off of forums and spreading it to others.
11-04-2003, 11:06 AM
#43
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Originally posted by swifty949
Sorry you are very wrong. Have i ever said Veilside has a wind tunnel? No i have not. They do have 3 world records. 0-300 in 13secs. The R32 did 8.61 on Nitto's no NOS. the R34 did ‚346.2 kmh , in the rain at an FIA Sanctioned event. You think the aerodynamics didnt help? I would really like to see a urethane piece weight less than fiberglass. In fact i have weighted the veilside hood for the supra and weighted the factory aluminum hood for the supra. The veilside fiberglass hood weighted 15lbs, the factory hood weighted 30lbs.
So your telling me this body kit is not designed for performance, and veilside is a joke??? You better do some more actual research instead of getting the wrong information off of forums and spreading it to others. [/IMG]
Sorry you are very wrong. Have i ever said Veilside has a wind tunnel? No i have not. They do have 3 world records. 0-300 in 13secs. The R32 did 8.61 on Nitto's no NOS. the R34 did ‚346.2 kmh , in the rain at an FIA Sanctioned event. You think the aerodynamics didnt help? I would really like to see a urethane piece weight less than fiberglass. In fact i have weighted the veilside hood for the supra and weighted the factory aluminum hood for the supra. The veilside fiberglass hood weighted 15lbs, the factory hood weighted 30lbs.
So your telling me this body kit is not designed for performance, and veilside is a joke??? You better do some more actual research instead of getting the wrong information off of forums and spreading it to others. [/IMG]
...why do you think that the best bodykits are all urethane, and the cheap ripoffs are fibreglass?? if fibreglass was better, why would there be urethane units in the first place. *rolleyes*
you're comparing a fibreglass hood (probably one which you must use hood pins for) to an aluminum hood, both of which aren't body panels. stock hoods are heavy to stay closed, and add crash structure.
and still, no numbers, no real proof. never did i say that Vielside couldn't build the RB, 'cause they can (the big reason they hold those records).
THAT kit right there, yes, i do admit could be far worse, not to mention far better. for tips on how to make your car cut through the wind at exteremly high speed take a look at any Bonneville racer: that kit still sacrifices ultimate performance for style (and saleability of the brand). as bad as most of their kits that i've seen?? nope, that's the best i've seen, but for a 0-300kph racer, it could be plenty better.
and, this isn't the conjecture of another from a different forum regurjitated: i've been an aero freak for years (since my F1 infatuation, before my wankel infatuation :D)
Last edited by wakeech; 11-04-2003 at 11:09 AM.
11-04-2003, 12:15 PM
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Before you judge me, i am not one to state things that have no facts. I know for a fact that veilside does not have a windtunnel as it would be outrageously expensive.
Coming from an industrial design background, i too have an affection for fluid dynamics.
I also have followed F1 religiously since 1988.
If you too are so fond of F1 then please do some research on what material F1 car's used in the 70's before the introduction of Carbon Fiber....you'll find they used Fiberglass. Also many of the Lemans cars at that time used Fiberglass as well, a prime example would be the GT40.
Like the company or not Veilside has made kits that do benefit for downforce, and at the same time also have kits that are for style.
If you are the expert in materials then you would know that there are various grades of ALL material. Urethane in japan does not sell at all regardless of price or design. The main reason it does not sell is due to the weight disadvantage. Urethane is a great material if all you care about is looks. It's basically rubber. The properties can change with the weather. Under hot temperatures it can become warped. In cold temperatures it can become more brittle. If you break the urethane piece, then you will have to throw it away. With fiberglass you can repair it. The cheap companies that make rip off parts have given fiberglass a very bad name, they use the cheapest fiberglass out there, and apply in it such a manner that is most cost efficient.
I have a fiberglass bumper on my own car, it much lighter than factory. I also have fiberglass rear fenders, did it sacrifice anything? Sure, with modifying a car you comprimise. I wanted performance and style.
To set 3 records it takes a lot more than just being able to build a good motor. If you want some proof, then you will find that the Veilside R34 that did the top speed run had to have the suspension readjusted because the car produced so much downforce the toe of the front wheels changed after the run.
Coming from an industrial design background, i too have an affection for fluid dynamics.
I also have followed F1 religiously since 1988.
If you too are so fond of F1 then please do some research on what material F1 car's used in the 70's before the introduction of Carbon Fiber....you'll find they used Fiberglass. Also many of the Lemans cars at that time used Fiberglass as well, a prime example would be the GT40.
Like the company or not Veilside has made kits that do benefit for downforce, and at the same time also have kits that are for style.
If you are the expert in materials then you would know that there are various grades of ALL material. Urethane in japan does not sell at all regardless of price or design. The main reason it does not sell is due to the weight disadvantage. Urethane is a great material if all you care about is looks. It's basically rubber. The properties can change with the weather. Under hot temperatures it can become warped. In cold temperatures it can become more brittle. If you break the urethane piece, then you will have to throw it away. With fiberglass you can repair it. The cheap companies that make rip off parts have given fiberglass a very bad name, they use the cheapest fiberglass out there, and apply in it such a manner that is most cost efficient.
I have a fiberglass bumper on my own car, it much lighter than factory. I also have fiberglass rear fenders, did it sacrifice anything? Sure, with modifying a car you comprimise. I wanted performance and style.
To set 3 records it takes a lot more than just being able to build a good motor. If you want some proof, then you will find that the Veilside R34 that did the top speed run had to have the suspension readjusted because the car produced so much downforce the toe of the front wheels changed after the run.
Originally posted by wakeech
no, you didn't tell me they have a wind tunnel, but others have told me (in the same manner you use their 0-300 times) as proof that they're somehow more than just style.
...why do you think that the best bodykits are all urethane, and the cheap ripoffs are fibreglass?? if fibreglass was better, why would there be urethane units in the first place. *rolleyes*
you're comparing a fibreglass hood (probably one which you must use hood pins for) to an aluminum hood, both of which aren't body panels. stock hoods are heavy to stay closed, and add crash structure.
and still, no numbers, no real proof. never did i say that Vielside couldn't build the RB, 'cause they can (the big reason they hold those records).
THAT kit right there, yes, i do admit could be far worse, not to mention far better. for tips on how to make your car cut through the wind at exteremly high speed take a look at any Bonneville racer: that kit still sacrifices ultimate performance for style (and saleability of the brand). as bad as most of their kits that i've seen?? nope, that's the best i've seen, but for a 0-300kph racer, it could be plenty better.
and, this isn't the conjecture of another from a different forum regurjitated: i've been an aero freak for years (since my F1 infatuation, before my wankel infatuation :D)
no, you didn't tell me they have a wind tunnel, but others have told me (in the same manner you use their 0-300 times) as proof that they're somehow more than just style.
...why do you think that the best bodykits are all urethane, and the cheap ripoffs are fibreglass?? if fibreglass was better, why would there be urethane units in the first place. *rolleyes*
you're comparing a fibreglass hood (probably one which you must use hood pins for) to an aluminum hood, both of which aren't body panels. stock hoods are heavy to stay closed, and add crash structure.
and still, no numbers, no real proof. never did i say that Vielside couldn't build the RB, 'cause they can (the big reason they hold those records).
THAT kit right there, yes, i do admit could be far worse, not to mention far better. for tips on how to make your car cut through the wind at exteremly high speed take a look at any Bonneville racer: that kit still sacrifices ultimate performance for style (and saleability of the brand). as bad as most of their kits that i've seen?? nope, that's the best i've seen, but for a 0-300kph racer, it could be plenty better.
and, this isn't the conjecture of another from a different forum regurjitated: i've been an aero freak for years (since my F1 infatuation, before my wankel infatuation :D)
11-04-2003, 01:27 PM
#45
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wakeech - do you have something against veilside and bodykits. most of your posts you seem to be fairly knowledgable about technical aspects of vehicles, however you are wrong about veilside. Veilside is a tuner in Japan. Most ALL tuners in Japan develop products for function and then for form. Veilside uses a composite of fiberglass and gel creating a durable and lightweight design. Veilside is a respectable company that has developed more than just bodykits, they develop performance products and throughly research and test them. They have extremely insanely fast cars and they look like they are fast. Veilside now creates both kits for look as some are, and some are performance. Urethane is simply another material body kit consumers are demanding since they usually are using them for the street and prefer durability over weight and performance. The aerodynamics are hand crafted and through much real world testing (no wind tunnel - I do not believe) they improve designs. Veilside produces both style and function.
11-04-2003, 01:40 PM
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plus.... veilside would not have such high stature in the Japanese tuner community if they just made "cool looking body parts" - in Japan they have another way of looking at things. The many companies there produce only products that are functional ! accessories and style later... its just how it is. A lot of products are street and race tested.
The only company that wind tunnel tested its designs for aero parts was Mugen (now M-Tech). Since they went bankrupt for tax evasion who knows what is gunna happens. They only developed Honda aero parts. Simply said they wind tunnel test to improve downforce, etc. The DC5 kit is approximately $5000 USD which demonstrates the cost of developing a kit that is proven in the wind tunnel. People simply are not willing to shell out $5000 for a bodykit unless they are racing. Mugen also wind tunnel tested their S2000 bodykit and the rear piece was not producing improved aerodynamics so they scraped that part and loss $20000 in testing it. That is a huge loss to just throw away $20g, but they are serious tuners. Wind tunnel testing is extremely expensive for testing a bodykit. Even if you did wind tunnel testing, computer testing would most likely be another alternative that is less costly - more COST EFFECTIVE. However when you are a company you do not want to spend large sums of capital on developing products that only a select few can purchase, rather develop for the masses in order to make money, after all - they are a business...
TechArt Germany also develops wind tunnel tested aerodynamic parts for Porsche. Their kits cost roughly $20000 + because they reflect the costly price of wind tunnel testing and proving the performance aspect of their products. FEW people can afford these kits much less have the cars they go on so pricing them high is not a problem cuz porsche owners can most likely afford them. I personally know this guy in my car team that has a 996 GT II and has TechArt's bodykit - it looks mean and it definately works.
The only company that wind tunnel tested its designs for aero parts was Mugen (now M-Tech). Since they went bankrupt for tax evasion who knows what is gunna happens. They only developed Honda aero parts. Simply said they wind tunnel test to improve downforce, etc. The DC5 kit is approximately $5000 USD which demonstrates the cost of developing a kit that is proven in the wind tunnel. People simply are not willing to shell out $5000 for a bodykit unless they are racing. Mugen also wind tunnel tested their S2000 bodykit and the rear piece was not producing improved aerodynamics so they scraped that part and loss $20000 in testing it. That is a huge loss to just throw away $20g, but they are serious tuners. Wind tunnel testing is extremely expensive for testing a bodykit. Even if you did wind tunnel testing, computer testing would most likely be another alternative that is less costly - more COST EFFECTIVE. However when you are a company you do not want to spend large sums of capital on developing products that only a select few can purchase, rather develop for the masses in order to make money, after all - they are a business...
TechArt Germany also develops wind tunnel tested aerodynamic parts for Porsche. Their kits cost roughly $20000 + because they reflect the costly price of wind tunnel testing and proving the performance aspect of their products. FEW people can afford these kits much less have the cars they go on so pricing them high is not a problem cuz porsche owners can most likely afford them. I personally know this guy in my car team that has a 996 GT II and has TechArt's bodykit - it looks mean and it definately works.
Last edited by Efini 8; 11-04-2003 at 01:43 PM.
11-10-2003, 02:20 PM
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simply put rice is spending more on your car to make it look better or faster then your car was is worth but not spending the money to do the job right. ie buying a civic spending 15 grand on it to make it faster and home installing the stuff and letting the wires show, when if you had an ounce of self control you could saved up bought a better car, then put more time in and make the job look professional instead of cheap then you would not be a ricer
11-10-2003, 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by swifty949
the definition of rice can be summed up as a derogatory term. It is always used to put others down.
the definition of rice can be summed up as a derogatory term. It is always used to put others down.
If you can put on a mod in 3 minutes does that make it "Uncle Bens"?
DeBug