This company has a module. And many other products that are kinda cool. http://www.kptechnologies.com/

 

You are correct, 25A relays are huge, and they make them for a reason. By reading all of Lurch''s posts, he obviously knows what he is doing in the 12V field, but is probably willing to do mods to his car that would not be done to average customers. However, if you are planning on manufacturing something for mass distribution, you would never want your components rated less than the protection device before it (ie fuse). You would be setting yourself up for failure. This project is obviously in the beginning stages and if it is going to control the existing relays, I agree 100%, but if not, I am just throwing out food for thought.

 

I used those on my G35 before i got my 8

 

I totally agree with you about not wanting to use a relay less then the fuse you have protecting it. To give you an idea though, the DEI module only uses a 10 amp fuse ( you can see it in the pic in my thread). That is to control both windows motors too. I agree Lurch does know what he is doing when it comes to this stuff. In fact he helped me out a bit when i was doing my install. He decided that he wanted the extra protection of stomping the Sunroof motor if something got in the way, where i wasn't too worried about that. BTW if you look at that part of his windows thread it is really complicated process to do.

 

Any updates????

This sounds like a very exciting project.

 

I have all the parts and I've started designing the circuit board.

Unfortunately work has kept me very busy so things are not progressing as fast as I had hoped.

I've made some changes along the way too... the basic idea is the same but the module is more configurable anywhere from just a beeper module to one with four 25A relays.

More news at eleven

D2.

 

Before you finish your circuit board you may want to consider adding high side current monitors for all the motor outputs. The motors may (or may not) have built in thermal protection, but you don't want to trip those contacts every time you remotely raise the windows (the timed output will cause the motors to drive closed when the window is already closed, causing the motor to heat up and trip the internal contacts).

Also, if a kid/animal/etc were to get caught in the windows while they are going up they wouldn't stop (based on the internal overload) until there was quite a bit of pressure in the system, causing a hugh potential for injury/death. Once the thermal overload opens you'll have to wait until it cools down to operate the motor in any direction.

So, timed relay output to control motors = bad both from a liability standpoint and from a motor life expectency angle. With a high side current monitor you can program the module to allow a certain amount of current, as soon as that of current is passed you can shut the windows off immediately. This would work as both 'pinch detection' and a 'top of travel' detection.

 

I have't read this entire thread so I don't know the status of this project; however, I was able to make my rx-8 beep once when the car is locked and twice when the car is unlocked. The parts cost about 5 bucks.

 

Bump

Hey Dutch, any progress???

 

I'm honestly working on it!

I'm in the middle of painting/selling house/moving so...

I'm still working on the circuit board... pretty packed with parts on both sides so it's slow going.

Just so you know I'm not making this up



Oh and to make matters worse one day a deer messed up all the driver side body panels on my 8... and two weeks later another deer took care of the mirror on the other side, dented the roof, and the messed up the trunk

D2.

 

i woulda had them deer for supper for doing that!

 

Awesome idea. I just got my 8 and I hate that it doesn't beep when you lock the doors. I keep hitting the lock button twice just to be sure, wouldn't want someone driving away with it!

-Subscribed-

 

any updates d2?

 

The circuit board is on order, it will take at least a week to get here.

I have all the parts to build a few and start programming.

More news at eleven.

D2.

 

subscribed

 

So what all features/functions did you include?

 

This is what I have so far... remember that I'm still working on this thing so suggestions are welcome...

• Up to 12 inputs to sense level (0V/12V), analog voltages, and pulses like RPM or speed
• Up to 4 SPDT 25A relays
• Optional beeper
• RS232 serial interface to PC
• Small 2.6" x 2.6" x 1.1" plastic enclosure
• Fully programmable with included PC software
• Expandable, multiple modules can communicate through one-wire interface

You will basically be able to program the unit to perform a specific action based on the state of the inputs. This will be a way to implement all those features that "all those other cars" have and we don't, or add a few that nobody has thought of before

Of course in its simplest form it will beep when you lock/unlock the car. Next it could open/close the windows & sunroof when you use the remote, or flash the neons under your car when you go over 8,000 RPM

I'm also pondering additional modules... let me know if you have any ideas!

KPierson, I'm still thinking about how to add some kind of current monitoring to the relay lines so it could detect that a window or roof is done closing.

That's it for now...

D2.

 

I'd be happy to volunteer as a guinea pig for testing.. and I can do a write up with pics if needed.

 

Impressive!



very interested as well.



Just a few questions.... how would you locate the needed wires in the car? I would guess that most of the wires are under the dash except for the sunroof. How do you plan on working that out? Also, how would you be able to tell if the windows are finished rolling up? Would there be some kind of resistance change due to the motor stalling?

 

Great news Dutch!
There's going to be a long list of people wanting in on this. I'm hoping I'm somewhere in the first run.
Waiting... Waiting... waiting...

 

Rotary Rasp, all of the wires I needed so far I have been able to locate by searching this forum, and you're right, all of them were under the dash.
Also, jzrx8 emailed me some wiring diagrams that helped me figure out how the modules in the car worked.
Depending on what people want to do with this unit I may end up buying the manual with the wiring diagrams.

The window and sun roof motors have built-in over-current detection to turn off when the window/roof is closed. The relays in the unit will apply power to the motors long enough to close them completely.
If the window is closed before the power is removed, the motor's protection will turn it off the same way it does if you keep holding the window up button when the window is already closed.

As KPierson suggested it may be good for this unit to have a current detector build in to would be able to tell when the window is closed so it can turn the power off. The current prototype does not have this feature, but I am trying to think of a way to add it. I may not add it to this module, but to a special "motor control" unit.

I guess it would be good to have some idea of what people want to use this for so I know what kind of functions are most important.

D2.

 

I have the shop manual in pdf form if you want it. It's about 1100 pages long which includes about 300 dedicated to the electrical system.

 

I could be wrong, but I thought that shut off feature was built into the window switches, not the motor. I say this because if you try to close the windows after they are rolled up, the interior lights will dim and stay dim until you take your finger off the switch. The sunroof seems to operate differently, once it is closed, nothing happens if you press the close button again.

just some thoughts....

 

Like I said before, I would be very worried to run the mottors with no current monitoring. I don't belive the internal motor overloads are designed to do what you think they will do. I would bet that they are thermal overloads and once they trip you will have to wait for them to cool down. I may be wrong, but fortunately this is an easy test - grab a 30A relay and hardwire the windows to drive up. Leave the relay energized for ~30 seconds and then see what happens. Obviously the first thing to look for is any damage caused by torque, and the 2nd thing would be check to see if the motor still works immediately after the test. You could also run a current meter inline with the power feed from the relay to see what the current does when it his top. If it goes jumps up a considerable amount and stays there you know that this won't work. If the current drops to 0 problem solved!

 

Well I've been looking into this some more, and I've found a way to measure the current going through the relay contacts regardless of whether they are switching ground or power wires.

This will basically let you set a current threshold for each relay, and the relay will turn off whenever the threshold is exceeded. A record mode will let you monitor the current and set the threshold. For example with a window motor you will first see the motor operating current while the window is moving, and then a much higher current when the window is completely closed. You can then click to set the threshold somewhere in between. This will be an option to add to the base unit since it will add cost.

On a side note, I went to see my poor car today. Two deer hit it on separate occasions a few weeks ago, and it has been in the shop for a week now while I drive an Impala Impala by the way means "corners like a bag of water" in swahili

According to the repair gut they had to replace one of the rear doors because it was aluminum, not sheet metal? Anyway, it was a sad sight

D2.