WingleBeast

Here is my story:

I bought a viper smart start at best buy with my gift card, I was confident I could install it myself to the rep set me up with everything I would need. Unfortunetly, when I got home I discovered that the kits do not come with install instructions, rather you have to get on their website and use your installer number to get access; effectively restricting the installation to just distributors. I went back to best buy to get the to print them off, turns out they claim it is illegal to give instructions to customers.

So I finally give in and ask them to install it, until I find out I have to pay a premium fee for it being a manual transmission for a special upgrade that makes you do a coded sequence to ensure you are in neutral. I argued that the RX8 has a neutral safety switch, but he said its illegal for them to install it as such without the add on.

At this point I am pissed and try to just return the kit, but that's not possible because I opened the box and might have 'messed with the wires.' On top of that, I asked to watch an install (you guessed it, also not allowed) it turns out to splice the wires they just strip the insulation and wrap the wire with their fingers, no solder or crimp joints. They will only use solder if its under the hood.

Moral of the story is buyer beware, I don't trust these guys. The good news is I have gotten with a few people in the know how and will be doing a DIY here shortly for you guys.

firebirdude

iTrader: (3)

While I understand the sequence of events that led to your frustration, I really don't see any wrong doing or shadiness here. First, the majority of security/keyless/starter systems do not come with "instructions". They MAY come with a key as to which color wire means what. But even that is usually extremely basic and would look cryptic to the untrained eye. And many don't come with this key at all. The wire colors are usually pretty standard. Just as with headunits. Most installers know them by heart. Additionally, there are so many different applications that would make including a comprehensive instruction manual nearly impossible.

Next, Best Buy usually pays an annual fee for access to these vehicle websites that list more detailed instructions. So them not printing instructions for you may be that reason, or it could simply be a liability issue. You get hurt while following the directions their installers gave you, and now you want to sue. You know there are plenty of people out there that would file suit. They're trying to run a business and stay out of trouble. So all in all, I don't blame them.

I'm a little shocked they even offered to install a remote start on a manual transmission car. Last I knew, all big box stores had a "no way jose" policy against that. Again, liability. Best Buy is not going to leave it up to the 23 year old installer to make the call if your specific vehicle has a neutral safety switch or not. It doesn't matter. Corporate says no to all stick shifts. Flat out. So possibly they just needed the work and were going to charge you a little extra for the little extra labor it would require to install in a manual tranny car (and ignore corporate's orders), while having enough experience to know how to install it so you couldn't run it through your garage on accident.

As for you trying to return the kit, ehhh, if you didn't even unwrap the wires, then I'm on your side. I'm sure they have a policy in place to prevent people from trying to install it, cutting all the wires up, then trying to return it. But if it was plainly obvious you didn't even touch the wires, you should have asked to speak with the store manager. In this situation, 9 out of 10 times, he'll give you what you want. It's obvious that kit could be resold. So he's just going to give you your money back to keep you happy.

Not that I'm super pro-Best Buy or anything. I've just worked as a car audio installer long enough to see this type of situation from the other side.

rickeo

iTrader: (1)

^Agreed. I'm not sure what BB did wrong here apart from refuse to let you return the kit. That being said, we're just taking your word for it that the kit was untouched.

WikkedOne

I remember reading a very detailed DIY for installing a remote start on this forum -forgive my laziness to not search and post a link.

After page 3 or so of tons and tons of pictures and wires to splice and what-not I've decided that I would almost certainly have to have it installed professionally (and I'm pretty confident with my car wiring abilities). Sorry that Best Buy made you think you could just take it home and hook it up in a few minutes. but things like this have to be left to the professionals.

WingleBeast

Im not calling out best buy, just the fact that the system of retailer - annual fee for install instructions (includeing wireing diagram) - lack of proper assistance is the culprit here.

If you want to have one installed and forget about it, sure. But this is a warning to people who want to be a little more involved. I am not so upset that they didnt allow me to return it, but rather that when i bought the kit the guy who took my info (car, transmission, ect...) gave me the wrong one, and on top of it told me everything i need to do a self install was in the box. Had he told me the situation with wireing diagrams and legality of the install I would have gone about it differently. I am also upset at the meathod of install (no soldering, electrical tape, zip ties).

Yeah I have that post on my favorites, but it is an older kit by a different company, definately helps, but not a be all end all DIY.

shinsoku

I've had a few run ins with best buy.. the last one was over the summer, I picked up an RSX Type-S (came with the BOSE system).

I bought a system about a month after I got the car, the system came with everything. I made an appt. with best buy to install it. So the next day I get out of work and drive it there to find no one is around in the installation bay. Then someone finally asks me if i need help so I tell him about my appt. turns out he is one of the installers and said their hours are over for the day they headed home (while the sign on their door said they'd be there another 2 hours..)

so pissed I left and told him I'd be in the next day. I arrive the next day and they said they don't have me marked down.. so i freak and they say bring it in the next day.. so i do.

next the guy tells me that "his buddy" has the same car I have and that with the BOSE system it's impossible to intergrate an aftermarket sub/amp set up to it, and I call bullshit but then he argues that they know what they are doing.

the next day I did some research, bouth a Line Out Converter and installed everything in an hour or two. I never had a single problem with the system while I had the car. Bunch of lazy f'ers if you ask me.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

i had them install a remote start on my subie for the gf and havent had a problem

firebirdude

iTrader: (3)

Like I've said a million times on this message board. Those big boxes stores are hit and miss. They're always younger people who go through little interviewing before being hired. Sometimes you come across a group of installers who take their job very seriously and have a passion for car audio. They stay late working on cars and read up on the latest innovations in their free time because it's fun to them. But sometimes you run across a group that doesn't know their *** from a hole in the ground. It sucks for your average customer because they don't know any better. That's the way it is. It's like letting WalMart do an engine swap.

For future reference, there's not a factory system out there that you can't add a LOC and sub amp. Even the higher-end Mercedes and BMW's with the fiber optic connections. Ultimately the sound is sent to speakers using a positive and negative wire. That's all you need.

shinsoku

Yea it's a shame, I don't think one person who worked there was over the age of 25, and I knew two people that worked there and I helped them put in their own systems and wouldn't trust them to put in other peoples, and yet that was their job. I'd rather just do it my self now and deal with a head ache here and there. at least at the end of the day I learned something and saved some money.

firebirdude

iTrader: (3)

To be completely honest, it's really pretty easy. An engine swap can become a headache. But there's not nearly as much that can go wrong with an audio install. Maybe it's just because I've built up quite a bit of experience and added patience.

There's not a chance in hell I'd let anybody else do an audio install for me. MAYBE an install with a TON of fiberglass/bondo/paint work, but I have experience in that realm too and wouldn't mind a little. Even then I'd have to hang out with the installers a bit and see some previous work they've done to feel comfortable leaving my car with them.

EDIT: Oh yeah. This topic is about remote start systems. LOL Well there's not a chance I'd let anybody do one of them on my car either.

shinsoku

Lol yea the headache normally comes because I don't have a second car anymore so if I don't finish an install one day either the car stays parked til the next day (if its a weekend) or im driving to work with my dash messed with or something else un-assembled lol. pretty much all due to me being impatient, but that's a learning process too lol. Ive gotten much better with my patience since I put in my first system haha

firebirdude

iTrader: (3)

Patience comes with experience. Once you know what all needs to be done and you know why something went wrong, problems tend to roll right off you.

And there's not an install out there I can't do in one day (box building and fiberglass aside). I've installed full systems (navi headunit with all the bells, two amps, component speaker with custom tweeter mounts, rear speakers and subs) along with a remote start/keyless/security system (including lock actuators due to not having power door locks) in one average work day by myself. Admittingly, this was in a shop. So I have all the room I need and own all the proper tools. With a helper, I'm sure I could do a custom MDF box and amp rack in that day too.

shinsoku

yupp lol I'm normally in my driveway with limited tools. I remember when I was messing with the acura headlights I lost a bolt and it drove me nuts, I ended up using the BOSE sub that I took out to locate the screw with the magnet lol worked like a charm

WingleBeast

That's my deal, I don't trust others to do wireing in my car (for the hit or miss reasons you said above) but the system is set up so only 'licensed installers' are privvy to the information can install the car starters. It's a catch-22, try it yourself without all the diagrams, or hope they know what they are doing at whatever store does the install. The big deal breaker for me was the 7th grade wireing they were doing just twisting and tapeing connections. Most people will never know, but I would hate to be the guy whos splices come undone when the e-tape ages and hardens, expecially in the ignition modual.

firebirdude

iTrader: (3)

Like I said previously, including a comprehensive manual that covers every make, model and trim car is simply not practical. It's rarely as simple as hunting down the correct wires in your car and connecting the correct one from the alarm/remote start/etc. Some cars may require a positive pulse, some a negative, some require a 230 ohm resistor be inline, some a 420 ohm, etc etc etc. Sometimes even which options a car model is equipped with can vary which color wires mean what and where their location is. This install isn't for Joe Random to complete in his driveway. Over 99.9% of your average DIY at home car audio installers are going to balk at these installations. It's best left for the professionals.

If you're not happy with their work, take your business elsewhere. They're a big box store who offers competitive prices. They hire cheap labor and handle a lot of customer flow. You have to expect a trade off. If you want a 5-star installation, take it to a 5-star shop.

As for any promises they made to you at the time of purchase, well, what can I say. You bought a system from a 20 year old kid with little experience who makes minimum wage. With all due respect to the employees of Best Buy, they need to be seen as the employees of WalMart are seen. They are worker bees and nothing more. Do you due diligence and make your own educated decisions.

shinsoku

hey hey now.. haha jk, car audio and simple lighting is the most I'd ever do electrical in the 8, I'm not to savy with the electrical in a car. I know some basics but also know when a project is way out of my reach lol

WingleBeast

I am well aware, but I could have at least gotten a printout of the inputs in the system and what wire they represent. I know for a FACT that viper has on their site car by car instructions. But best buy wont give those out. There will always be a wire diagram made with any electrical starter kit, I have seen them and I have done enough wiring on the 8 and other cars to dig into a car wiring diagram and have a 90% solution. I am not joe random in my driveway.

RBZL

They're not prohibited from installs on manual transmissions - all of the systems they will install have a "manual mode" sequence as described, though, which makes it a pain in the *** to arm the system and will disarm if a door is opened or the parking brake is off or a bunch of other stuff. On mine, before turning the car off, you had to:

- Push the brake pedal down
- Set the parking brake while making sure the car was in neutral
- Release the brake pedal
- Push the remote start button on the remote and wait a few seconds
- Turn the car off (it'd keep running)
- Get out of the car and shut all the doors
- Push the "lock" button on the remote, which would shut off the car and arm the remote start if everything else was done right

If you didn't do that in perfect order, it wouldn't remote start. And if you unlocked the doors or the alarm went off, it also wouldn't remote start.

I had a Viper system installed there about a month ago, and managed to get the installer to set the system to automatic transmission mode so I didn't have to go through the special sequence to arm the system on my manual. Of course, this was on the down-low... and I make sure the system is disabled entirely if anyone else is messing with the car (I had the physical on/off switch for the remote start hidden and turn it off + put the system in valet mode on top of that).

Matrx8

iTrader: (2)

The only problem I have with my manual remote start (also from BB) is when the engine is cold it doesn't crank long enough. I need to have them fix that but I'm too lazy to make the appointment. Also the mic that's hooked up to my sterio that they also installed doesn't work correctly.

I will say this however, when they installed my alarm (with Smart Start/remote start/alarm and DD head unit w/ Nav and iPod and rearview camera) they ripped off my drivers side sun visor, then put it back so by the time I noticed it was broken it was too late. I filed a complaint, and their lawyer contacted me and basically said that without proof, namely pictures the day of the installation, there was no way for me to prove they did it, so they weren't going to fix it.