silverx8

The Bose system is a collection of cheap paper cone speakers, and lackluster amplifiers with some "fancy" equalization.

The system is incapable of making high and low frequency sounds that ordinary systems are perfectly capable of.

If you prefer this sound, simply turn the bass and treble down in a high end system, and you have Bose quality.

I bought a good car amp used when I was a kid (about 20, or more years ago). The amp has .05% distortion, 20 to 20Khz, with a 70 volt per microsecond slew rate at 50 Watts (and still works!). Bose is not even close to these specifications yet. This is not opinion, this is specification. Bose just does not measure up on a technical basis.

You can have any opinion of what it sounds like to you, it is a free country. However the Bose equipment does not even try to measure up technically.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

and I guess the amp bought 20 years ago was acoustically designed by its manufacturer to the interior of the 8 as well? This is a tired subject, if you don't like the Bose that's fine but I see little to do with that and some amp you bought back in the stone age.

DreamWarrior

I wouldn't say that the amp is acoustically designed for the 8 at all. They may have attempted to factor in an EQ curve to help with the speaker positions chosen in the 8 to get sound that they feel is good enough. However, the fact is the system is cheap in comparision to good aftermarket stuff. It is also inflexible to tuning it how you like it.

At any rate, if you like the way it sounds, then kudos...many people (myself included) do not. I also don't see anything special in this system that Bose hasn't done before...I really doubt its a one-of design for the RX-8. Rather, I'd bet it is just a tweeked standard design with potentially different EQing. This is just one of many reasons it won't sound anywhere near a high quality aftermarket system that is installed and EQed with this exact car in mind.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

I'm not saying it will, I'm just trying to understand what a 20 year old amp has to do with the Bose system I honestly don't know of many "standard designs" that include an 8" speaker in the doors, but I'm no expert either.

dmp

Most people who argue 'for' bose, or, more specifically, OEM-Bose stuff, simply haven't heard 'good' sound- there's no frame of reference.

jaedcem

I think the original post was pointing out that, despite all our technical advances in recent decades, the Bose amp in the RX-8 would have been a poor quality amp 20 years ago. The point was that now it is a REALLY poor design, compared to modern standards.

bureau13

Apples to apples though. The Bose system we have (not me, the general we) would have blown the doors off of any "high-end" OEM system from 20 years ago (not that there even was such a thing). Comparing a custom-designed aftermarket stereo with something designed for the OEM masses is pointless.

jds

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

I hope you're not referring to me in this post, I've heard tons of "good" sound and have been playing with audio in one form or another since early childhood. I have a pretty decent frame of reference from hearing stuff firsthand being recorded in a studio to the little piece of plastic that fills the shelves in stores, to all the stuff inbetween. I'm not so much arguing "for Bose", as to merely point out that it's not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Surely they could have done better (name one OEM where that isn't the case) but at what cost to the end user? By the time you factor in all the additional cost etc. it would take to make any improvements you might as well buy the car sans stereo and use your hard earned cash to build your own deal anyway. (which is what I wanted to do in the first place but this car's packages are not structured that way) So yes I've heard "good sound", I do have a pretty decent (vast anyway) frame of reference and the Bose deal is not that bad to me, perhaps we can merge all these "Bose sucks.....blah blah blah" threads into one and make more productive use of this section of the forum? Sure would be helpful to those of us who are tired of hearing people bitch and moan about a tired subject.

charleybull33

The OEM - Bose system sounds fine. However, Bose will not measure up to anything that you could put together from the aftermarket. Bose is all about marketing, think about how much better their products could be if they put all that money into R & D instead of booths at airports, commercials, infomercials, et al.

khtm

What he said.

khtm

Wow, way to take a general comment (see: most people) personally.

khtm

Ok Mr. "be careful about the accusations you make"

dmp

Listening to expensive speakers doesn't help people learn what good sound is. Listen to LIVE music...then, find a system which replicates that as closely as possible.





I still say 95% of people are bad drivers. Chances are, if you are reading this thinking "Well, not ME" - Chances are you ARE a bad driver.

95% of people wouldn't know how to describe 'why' they like food. They'd be unable to articulate just what it is about a wine that makes a particular dish so tastey. If you are reading this thinking "Well, that's not me", chances are, it IS you.

95% of people wouldn't know good sound, or, more accurately, if they are listening to 'good sounding' equipment, if it fell out of the sky, landed on their face, and started wiggling.


What does that last part me? No idea...but get my point?

:D

DreamWarrior

Actually, I'll take issue with that live music comment for one reason. Some concerts are poorly mixed by the soundboard engineer through the venue's audio system and sound bad. I've been to concerts that were so badly mixed that I could barely make out the vocals they were so buried under the rest of the "music."

All I'm saying is that just because its live doesn't mean it'll sound good by any means. In fact, I can say that the competition system I had in my last car (while not quite as loud, *close* but not quite) sounded better than many concerts I have been to.

I'd peg the reason being that soundboard engineer at a concert doesn't have days to mix a recording like a studio engineer. So...it doesn't always come out great or as good as it could have.

jaedcem

UMMM - listening to electronic sounds created by machines, played on amplified speaker systems will always be more appealing when in a controlled environment (home) where the timbre of those sounds can be modified to the listener's personal tastes. Being forced to listen to a soundboard engineer's opinion of "good sound" is never ideal.

Yes, it does. I don't think you understand what djseto meant. A "live" performance to me means a live, acoustical, unmiked performance. I've never heard a live string quartet performance marred by poor mixing at the soundboard. The reason "audiophiles" don't ever go to Best Buy or Circuit City is that none of those speakers can reproduce accurate sounds. Go listen to a talented pianist performing at a recognized concert hall a few times. When you can tell the difference in sound between a $30,000 Steinway and the piano in your grandmother's house, you're on your way. Now, listen to a CD of well recorded piano music, and see if you can tell what type of piano was used. Then, see if you can imagine the room where it was recorded. A "good" system will reveal all these details - a "bad" system can't. I want my system to accurately reveal the sound of the recorded instruments, in the recording environment. If the performance was bad, I want to hear it. If the instrument was out of tune, I want to hear it. If all was perfect, I want to hear that, too.

N8theGr8

You nailed that right on the head my friend.

jbrasure

In my opinion the Bose stereo in the RX-8 is pretty good. It's not the best OEM stereo that I've heard, but it's better than most. I recently listened to the Harman Kardon stereo in a Mini Cooper, and the RX-8 was much better. I also listened to the "Premium" JBL stereo in a Prius, and that was a joke. There was nothing premium about it. The Bose stereo in my wife's Nissan Murano is about the same as the RX-8. My favorite stereo ever was the JBL premium stereo in my 1996 Ford Explorer.

silverx8

Please understand, my beef is not that the Bose is junk, and not even that those who buy it couldn't care less because they like the name.

I think that what really has me POD is that they have made it very hard if not impossible do get it out of an otherwise good car.

The head unit is OK. But getting an aftermarket MP3 changer, amp, or speakers is a problem.

As for the old amp that was not made to match the RX8. I have no clue as to what he means by matching an amplifier to a car. Is this a technical term that some marketer made up. If so than he bought it hook line and sinker. An amplifier AMPLIFIES. Without adding anything, without missing anything. Matching an amplifier to a car? Get a life, somebody (obviously smarter than you) made that up.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

This is frustrating me as well, the fact that their stuff is beyond propietary is insane, I thought that kind of thing went out back in the 80's. Is there a reason why they have such odd impedances on their speakers/system? can someone explain that to me? I'd love to have the option to just swap a speaker in the doors or something and go back at a later date and maybe swap something else, but with the Bose you have to take into consideration "their amp" and "their" this and that. If I wanted to run everything off my own amp w/ subs, their speakers will probably not match up to my amp since it's like a 10 ohm system or something nutty. I'm really beginning to hate how car manu's are trying to make things harder for people to change on their vehicles. I will be adding some subs to my car and I will be leaving the Bose stuff intact in the interim, I'll be curious to see how we can make everything turn out

edit: something else occurred to me, what happens when you blow a speaker or something similar happens(gets worn out etc.) and you want something else? are you forced to buy a replacement from Mazda? I'm thinking a few years down the road and something fries or something you will be stuck with the same deal I guess? does Bose offer lifetime warranty? (my guess is heck no)

DreamWarrior

In that sense, then fine...but you'll be damn hard pressed to get that sound in a small area environment like a car no matter what you spend.

Regarding the rest of your...audio snobbery, whatever. Sometimes its not always what you have (or how much you spent on it) its how well you can use it. So, if you're telling me I need a pair of speakers and amps more expensive than my car or even some peoples' homes to reproduce music accurately then I either don't have good enough ears (thankfully) or you're just an elitist. I'm sure I know which you'll pick .

On that note, I think I'm done with this thread.

forbidden

canaryrx8, to answer your question is simple. By using proprietary car audio devices and signing a supplier agreement with the car manufacturers has done another thing. It has created a warranty revenue stream. The speakers are bottom of the line paper cone speakers made by the cheapest bidder, they are of varying empedences. They must be purchased from Bose through Mazda if they blow. Unless you find the build house for these speakers and if the build house will sell them to you (which is not bloody likely), you must go through Mazda and pay the man. It has been this way for years. This is part of the reason as to why the Bose system is so depressing. It is cheaper for them to build crap speakers and throw an amp on it that has some type of eq in it, than it is to build good speakers and a good amp. It is all about marketing and price points. Bose is a marketing company first and foremost and a real darn good one as well. As far as building quality audio gear goes, this ear has been around long enough to from an educated and informed opinion. Bose has no place in aftermarket audio. A quick look at the Bose systems over the last 20 years I have been doing this verifies it. The same crap speakers are used today as 20 years ago, for the most part. Sure the sizes have changed and the amps have changed but the principle has remained the same.

Compared to aftermarket, the aftermarket has always tried to improve itself year after year, which it has done. The ability to mix and match is by far superior. The ability to recreate sound the way it was originally intended is also by far superior.

In my educated and informed opinion, Bose rates lower than the cheeziest of aftermarket car audio (which is probably built better anyways). In the case of the RX8, it is the worst sounding Bose system I have heard in the last 10 years and I cannot believe that a car of this stature would have such a poorly engineered and sounding stereo system. Some of the manufacturers have embraced the aftermarket, Nissan for example contracted with Rockford to make a better system. While some of it is proprietary, it is easily and readily adapted to integrate aftermarket audio parts into it.

Does Bose or other factory installed audio systems do the job for the average user, yes it does. To most of them they do not care about what good sound is meant to be like. They buy the car for the car. For those of us with a vested interest in good sound, 99% of factory systems have no business being in a car and we will do what we must to change it to our liking. It is all about personal preference. For a person to tell me that Bose is the best thing in the world, well that is great but put two identical systems side by side in the exact same environment, one being Bose and the other being a good audio system, I know which one will come out on top.

Again, Bose has continued to do the Jedi Mind Trick to consumers for years, the question is for those that dispute this is to consider the fact that this is being done to you and go back with a fresh start now knowing this. Good sound is in the ear of the beholder.