Bose is junk, the emperor has no clothes.
06-12-2005, 05:19 PM
#26
ahhh ok, the dollar wins again....sigh 
well for now my Bose will have the job of providing my highs once my subs are in, if it still not to my liking then comes plan b, which I will concoct at a later date :D
well for now my Bose will have the job of providing my highs once my subs are in, if it still not to my liking then comes plan b, which I will concoct at a later date :D
06-12-2005, 06:22 PM
#27
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I work for a compettitor of Bose and can easily say that most of our OEM units are well tested for the vehicle they are going into. The one we make for much cheaper cars are much better than the Bose in the 8. I really wish we would have gotten that contract, or will in the future, can retro at a cheap rate
It is common for different companies to get the HU, amp, speakers, mp3/ changer contracts on the same car though so there is a point to say they went for the cheaper speakers etc. Some of the best sounding units are going to the cheaper cars now because it is a big selling point to the younger, thumper generation.
It is common for different companies to get the HU, amp, speakers, mp3/ changer contracts on the same car though so there is a point to say they went for the cheaper speakers etc. Some of the best sounding units are going to the cheaper cars now because it is a big selling point to the younger, thumper generation.
06-13-2005, 01:07 AM
#28
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Snobbery, or good value?
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior
In that sense, then fine...but you'll be damn hard pressed to get that sound in a small area environment like a car no matter what you spend.
Regarding the rest of your...audio snobbery, whatever. Sometimes its not always what you have (or how much you spent on it) its how well you can use it. So, if you're telling me I need a pair of speakers and amps more expensive than my car or even some peoples' homes to reproduce music accurately then I either don't have good enough ears (thankfully) or you're just an elitist. I'm sure I know which you'll pick
.
On that note, I think I'm done with this thread.
Regarding the rest of your...audio snobbery, whatever. Sometimes its not always what you have (or how much you spent on it) its how well you can use it. So, if you're telling me I need a pair of speakers and amps more expensive than my car or even some peoples' homes to reproduce music accurately then I either don't have good enough ears (thankfully) or you're just an elitist. I'm sure I know which you'll pick
.On that note, I think I'm done with this thread.
The tweeters are cheap by my standards. At a cost of about $5 (I really am being generous), they could easily be replaced by better quality units. At $6.75 (qty 4+), the AUDAX TW010I1 3/8" TITANIUM COMPOSITE DOME TWEETER available through parts express is a stupendous improvement. Carrying this analogy throughout the system, there is about $200 maximum in the system (they pack it in the sticker for far more). If they were to spend $300 and pass the extra hundred on, the system could be wonderful.
Audio snobbery, I think not, just judicious use of funds.
Why the silly impedances and levels?
Well technically the changes are not so silly. The 8 ohm impedance of home stereos allows long cable runs, 4 ohms for shorter runs in the car. Bose put the amp in the speaker for a really short run allowing 2 ohms. This gives more power at the lower battery voltage. Real amps step up the voltage to get more power at the higher 4 ohm impedance. The Bose gets around the step up power supply with lower impedance. However the amp sounds worse at high current, and lacks power storage and decoupling that the step up provides. Cheaper, but worse sound.
The nonstandard levels of the interconnect allow the signals to be sent around the car without noise from other stuff getting. Probably not a bad thing. The aftermarket systems have levels descendended from home audio. Not the best for cars.
06-13-2005, 09:47 AM
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So, I have read multiple threads on the subject and cannot find a definitive answer. Lets see if we can have some people agree on this. Are there speakers that we can just drop in to make the system sound better?
What i have assertained is that the Tweeters are no problem. Plug and play. I have read a couple yes and no(s) about the back two. I have not found any good information regarding the 9" subs in the doors. Someone did mention dropping some 6.5s in there, but no results.
Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
What i have assertained is that the Tweeters are no problem. Plug and play. I have read a couple yes and no(s) about the back two. I have not found any good information regarding the 9" subs in the doors. Someone did mention dropping some 6.5s in there, but no results.
Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
06-13-2005, 03:32 PM
#30
Originally Posted by tabularasa
So, I have read multiple threads on the subject and cannot find a definitive answer. Lets see if we can have some people agree on this. Are there speakers that we can just drop in to make the system sound better?
What i have assertained is that the Tweeters are no problem. Plug and play. I have read a couple yes and no(s) about the back two. I have not found any good information regarding the 9" subs in the doors. Someone did mention dropping some 6.5s in there, but no results.
Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
What i have assertained is that the Tweeters are no problem. Plug and play. I have read a couple yes and no(s) about the back two. I have not found any good information regarding the 9" subs in the doors. Someone did mention dropping some 6.5s in there, but no results.
Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
06-14-2005, 12:04 AM
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Amp and speakers are a pair due to impedance. There is a converter for amplifier levels so that you can use an aftermarket amp.
Try this
http://www.linkmeup.com/pd4.htm
http://www.davidnavone.com/detail.as...UCT_ID=NE-774V
These adapters help to adjust the levels and equalization for a good four channel amplifier.
Try this
http://www.linkmeup.com/pd4.htm
http://www.davidnavone.com/detail.as...UCT_ID=NE-774V
These adapters help to adjust the levels and equalization for a good four channel amplifier.
06-14-2005, 01:53 PM
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Having done some mixing myself spec's don't mean anything when it comes to sound quality. Also it's difficult at best to get decent sound inside something as small as a car especially with drivers heads at different heights, different amounts of passengers, lots of glass, etc.
I have a nissan with that system, it's better but not much better. The low end is a boomy mess, the high end is to harsh and there is no mid range. The "premium" system in my eclipse sound decent but has a really muddly low-mid range.
Each system will sound good with certain types of music.
Unfortunately there is a huge amount of snobbery in the audiophile world and very few people have any idea what they are talking about.
Nissan for example contracted with Rockford to make a better system.
Each system will sound good with certain types of music.
Unfortunately there is a huge amount of snobbery in the audiophile world and very few people have any idea what they are talking about.
06-14-2005, 03:10 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by tabularasa
From what i have read, there is an amp for the back 4 speakers, plus an amp for each woofer in the door. Thats 3 amps for 9 speakers.
What a PITA.
What a PITA.
06-14-2005, 03:29 PM
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I guess the best thing to do would be to tap the stock amp to put another amp to power the fronts and a sub, then use the stock amp to power just the rear speakers.
06-14-2005, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Umbra
I have a nissan with that system, it's better but not much better. The low end is a boomy mess, the high end is to harsh and there is no mid range. The "premium" system in my eclipse sound decent but has a really muddly low-mid range.
Each system will sound good with certain types of music.
Each system will sound good with certain types of music.
Originally Posted by Umbra
Unfortunately . . . very few people have any idea what they are talking about.
06-14-2005, 04:16 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by khtm
I think the rear amp powers all the speakers. I disconnected it when I was doing my audio upgrade and the front speakers stopped working.
06-14-2005, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Umbra
spec's don't mean anything when it comes to sound quality. ...Each system will sound good with certain types of music.
Unfortunately there is a huge amount of snobbery in the audiophile world and very few people have any idea what they are talking about.
Unfortunately there is a huge amount of snobbery in the audiophile world and very few people have any idea what they are talking about.
I just dont see how to salvage poor frequency response and resonance. Its like losing data and getting random junk stuffed in with it.
06-14-2005, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tabularasa
I guess the best thing to do would be to tap the stock amp to put another amp to power the fronts and a sub, then use the stock amp to power just the rear speakers.
06-15-2005, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by silverx8
This will be hard. You need to tap the signal before it goes to the amp, and leave the rear system alone. The amp cannot power regular 4 ohm speakers.
I figure just get a good 3 channel amp to power a sub and two sets of compononts for the front, taking out the amps and woofers and tweets. Then drop in some 6x9s in the back and viola.
I'm no expert though.
:D
06-15-2005, 10:17 AM
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Why do most people insist on having a rear stage? At best everything should come from in front of you, at worst put the subs behind and cross them over at a low enough frequency so as to be undirectional.
IMO, anything above 60hz (some may go lower; my subs in my old car were crossed at 45 and there was still PLENTY of output) is directional enough that it'll muddle your image in the front. If you want to actually have a nice clear, deep, soundstage keep the rear empty and power the front adaquetly.
IMO, anything above 60hz (some may go lower; my subs in my old car were crossed at 45 and there was still PLENTY of output) is directional enough that it'll muddle your image in the front. If you want to actually have a nice clear, deep, soundstage keep the rear empty and power the front adaquetly.
06-15-2005, 11:16 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by tabularasa
There are people on this forum who have "dropped in" 4 ohm speakers in the rear and it worked. They said it was just a little quieter than the stock speakers.
:D
:D
06-15-2005, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tabularasa
how is having two sets of componants in the front, and 6x9s in the back w/ sub in the trunk a "rear stage" ?
Anytime you have directional sound coming from the back it'll pull the soundstage backwards. If you sit and listen to it you'll hear drums and vocals coming from the back of the car which, IMO, is not desirable. The only exception is surround sound media (which you don't have) because it is mixed specifically to place only the desired sounds behind you. Two channel audio is not, and therefore the rear stage (i.e. any sound coming from behind your head) hurts the image.
"Rear fill" IMO is nothing more than a band-aid to getting more power into the car. The compromise is the obliteration of a good front sound stage. How many times have you been to a concert and had the performers play behind you?
06-15-2005, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by djseto
They are quieter because you have damn near quadrupled the resistance which means that in a simple V=IR equation, keeping Voltage constant, you are lowering the Current by 4 times by going from a 1 ohm speaker to a 4 ohm. Talk about inefficient.
DreamWarrior, 2 sets = 4 speakers. At least how i was counting. 1 set = mid + tweeter. The way i figure it, if there is a seperate amp powering the front speakers, then you could tune it anyway you want, making the front the main stage, in your example.
06-15-2005, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tabularasa
Oh, i understood WHY its so quiet. I was just commenting.
DreamWarrior, 2 sets = 4 speakers. At least how i was counting. 1 set = mid + tweeter. The way i figure it, if there is a seperate amp powering the front speakers, then you could tune it anyway you want, making the front the main stage, in your example.
DreamWarrior, 2 sets = 4 speakers. At least how i was counting. 1 set = mid + tweeter. The way i figure it, if there is a seperate amp powering the front speakers, then you could tune it anyway you want, making the front the main stage, in your example.
Either way IMO rear-fill, regardless of how well tuned it is, will be hurtful to the front stage. Any time the rear stage has highly directional frequencies (IMO anything above 60hz) emitting from it the front stage will be pulled towards the rear. Ideally, the front stage should be way further front. It should sound like its coming from beyond the windshield. This is oftentimes hard to do, but rear-fill will never help it. I don't think I've ever seen a home audio set-up use speakers in the rear during the reproduction of 2 channel audio; why use them in your car?
06-15-2005, 03:29 PM
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Rear fill is no good. If you go to Sound Quality competition, you will have points deducted id you have rearfill. Rear fill does not help improve sound quality, all it does is add more noise. Rear fill is no good unless you have a huge car & you feel sorry for the people in the back not able to hear good sound like the people in the front. 2 sets of components is the best way to go in the front, mids in the kickpanels & midbass in the door panels aimed towards the center of the car.