Thommino

I read the thread from the beginning to the end,and I understand that for working your cable need a component installed only on Japanese car (T.V. tuner). In this way your cable work only like long nice connector. We need another component (live avelectronic or pie adapter) to add a video line in (RGB) and an audio line in (Fm modulator). Is it all right?
Thnaks

DUGS_REX

Hello All,

I'm late to this discussion as I just read this thread in it's entirety last night... I too am looking for an inexpensive composite video (or even better S-video) input solution for the RX-8. Here's my mix of conjecture and knowledge:

1. It is likely that NO video "flows" through the head unit auxiliary connector. And, since it is reported that vehicles with the Nav unit installed still are not utilizing this connector, The Nav audio must find it's way to the head unit through one of it's harnessses. However, based on the PIE adapter issues, there is a possibility that there is some control over selecting the video source in the head unit, and I suspect that the "Bus" wires have something to do with that. My guess is that there are bus commands that tell the Nav display to pull video from a different source or even more likely that a bus command tells the Nav unit to switch video sources since all the video generating accessories mount in the rear and plug into the Nav unit.

2. Here is what I know for sure about the video coming OUT of the Nav. It is RGB with a Composite sync ( total of 4 signal wires). It is NOT digital as an earlier post suggested. The signal is still Analog in nature, but may be generated digtally. It is likely that the "resolution" is NTSC as VGA costs more to produce. I have thought about pulling the NAV system and attaching it to a multisync computer monitor which would then report the V and H frequencies begin generated by the Nav unit. Assuming it is NTSC (but not composite), I know there is a five dollar chip that will convert seperate RGB+Sync signals into a composite or S-video signal. I can only assume that there is a five-dollar chip that does the reverse, since ANY tuner/receiver/monitor at some stage needs to separate the composite signal into it's componenets to feed the driver circuitry(even in an LCD tv). The quality and readability is suprising if the Nav head unit IS NTSC (320 x 480 virtual resolution) but I can tell that the display unit is Analog as sometime noise can be seen on the screen.

3. Here is the BIG question: How does the TV tuner get it's signal INTO the Nav Unit? Or the rearview Cam for that matter? There has to be one or two auxiliary Video-Inputs on the nav unit itself plus a way to command the nav unit to switch inputs(probably throught the common "bus" wires). I'm guesing that the NAV unit puts out seperate RGB to improve the picture quality and allow the text and graphics to have sharp edges(there doesn't appear to be any aliasing in the text fonts). Motion video inputs would not need to be the same quality and the Nav info, so It's possible that the Auxiliary inputs are simple composite to save wires and the switcher in the Nav unit splits the composite signal before sending it out the RGB wires.

I'm going to be messing around with the Nav unit more when I get the time. Now that I have found out about the speed sensor calibration in the GPS secret menu, I'm going to find a way to swap out the Nav main unit into my '67 firebird. I'll have a display, controls, and antenna installed in the 'bird and a harness ready to plug into the Nav unit anytime I want to swap. Then all I have to do re recalibrate the speed sensor (measured in meters/pulse down to cm precision) and the unit should work in two cars for the price of 1 (plus maybe $300 overhead installed in the second car). As I work on this project, I'll be playing with the nav unit quite a bit. One of the first things I may do is get one of those five dollar composite chips and run the GPS through it to a video input on my TV. Then I'll try one of the cheaper LCD units with S-video input and see if the display is still adequately readable. Of course, if the NAV head unit turns out to be VGA (640x480 60Hz) then some of my ideas will be better (easier to wire a computer to the display unit) and some will be more difficult (wiring a video source). Either way, Ill post anything I find out so you all can use at your own risk https://www.rx8club.com/newreply.php :p

thew

Yep you got it

and so far thats the only way to get A/V into the system...

thew

Dugs..

you are close.. the DVD oem unit sends its digital audio signal to the HU where it is encoded and sent to the Amps. the Video is sent directly to the LCD but the HU can switch between the NAV unit and the JDM T.V. unit. That JDM t.v. unit has 2 extra inputs on it for the extra connecter and Camera. ... and that JDM unit would use the unused connecter on the back of the HU. The same one that the PIE unit uses. The JDM T.V. unit does not talk to the OEM DVD. It does talk to the HU. All of the switching is done via remote control. The LCD screen has a I/R receiver window on the right side of the screen. Its not used in non JDM cars. So the real issue here is to send a digital audio signal down the path that the oem DVD unit uses (yes it send left and right, remember it s a digital signal) ... if you could digitize your audio then we could get it into the HU .....

anyway.. I would not waste your time ripping it apart. You can see that I and about 3 others have done extensive research including talking to Japan. The only solution for Audio is the cd hack, The PIE unit if your lucky, The Tape hack or FM modulation.

The Video hack is easy. you just need an r,g,b, and sync signal to tap into the back of the OEM DVD unit. that will get you your video.

Thommino

Thew thanks.
I buy a ntsc to rbg conveter (http://www.nav-vision.com) then I buy a pal to ntsc converter and I connect in this way.

my switch video out to pal-ntsc converter. The pal-ntsc to nav-vision converter and then this to mazda rx-8.
It's quiete expensive.
Switch (i have already)
http://www.nav-vision.com avout 299$ plus shipment
pal to ntsc converter (about 120$ from http://www.nav-vision.com)
Have you find more cheaper solution?
Here my future installation: http://www.thommino.com/Installazione_Mazda.htm

InuYasha

I'm working with a guy in Japan, whos checking out the specs on the JDM T.V. unit and backup cam.

I'm more interested in the backup camera feature, than the tV, but if I can pickup U.S. broadcasts, that's just icing on the cake.

He's supposed to be getting me prices and part numbers as well as functionality info. I'll post what I find out when I find out.

In the worst case, with a JDM TV unit, and the matching factory backup camera, I'd get a working backup cam. If the TV unit is not, or cannot recieve U.S. Broadcasts, or is not NTSC capable, a simple NTSC to PAL converter and Voila' Auxillliary Audio/Video at the head unit. :D

I'll wait untill I have all the necessary info, before I get everyone's hopes up.

I'm sure this is not the cheapest solution, but It uses all factory parts, and doesn't require hacking up the wiring harness. (nothing harder to troubleshoot than bad connections or intermittent wiring problems).

truemagellen

InuYasha...I'm looking forward to your JDM tv unit arrival as I am very curious how it works with our US HU and Nav unit, etc. keep us updated for sure

as for THomino there is a cheaper option...it is Blaunkput controller...I'll find the link for you...it provides the rgbs switch but no tv tuner...it interfaces with the Blaunkput ME3 which has a tv tuner in it and you can get it in PAL

lots cheaper than the NAv-vision plus all that other stuff

thew

Working on that as well.. but the U.S. cars dont have the wireing harness to make the JDM t.v. unit work.. And so far my 3 contacts in Japan cannot get the JDM t.v tuner..

SO you ever feel like your repeating yourself...

DUGS_REX

OK I looked in the Wiring Diagram manual and the Service highlights and here's the scoop on the Nav Audio...

The NAV Audio is NOT digital audio as suggested below. In fact, the Nav Audio is about as simple as can be: The Left Front (ONLY!!!) Speaker signal from the Head Unit(non Bose) or Main Amp(Bose) goes INTO an audio input in the Nav Main Unit(with the DVD drive). Then an Audio Out comes out of the Nav Unit and routes to the Left Front speaker. Thats how the Nav unit "cuts off" the signal from the stereo and takes over the LF speaker, and also how it can drive the speaker when the stereo is off :p There is no fancy system for the NAV audio, it is simply in series between the stereo and the LF speaker. In addition, the Nav unit has TWO sets of audio In/Out. One for low power audio (standard) and one for High Power audio (bose). If you look at the wiring diagrams you will see that the standard and bose wire differently to the NAV unit. It is clear that the Nav unit itself is only capable of driving the LF speaker only and that the head unit has nothing to do with that.

OK, now for video... The larger connector on the Nav unit (the one with Video) has about HALF of it's pins unconnected! My guess is that these pins go to the harness on Japan cars for the Tuner and reinforces my idea that the Nav main unit has a Video-In capability. Another interesting thing is that the control buttons for the Nav unit are collected by the display unit and converted into a serial command to the Nav main unit (The head unit is not involved in this at all). The display unit connector also has a single unconnected pin named "Video Input" which may cause the Display unit to send a command to the Nav Main unit to switch which video to send to the Display Unit.

thew

You do know that I have taken the car apart about 5 times. Talked to Mazda. Installed all the Gear.. And yes gone thru the Wiring diagrams. You are very wrong about the Audio. As for the Video ..Like i said its very easy to get Video into the LCD. And yes the Left and Right channels are there. its just that the DVD unit only uses the L side.

and again.. I have talked to so many peeps in Japan and here that I want to make sure you don't give anyone the wrong idea. The HU is the Main Input controlling device for the JDM video system. there's no extra input on the Nav system.. it all goes to the HU.

anyway good luck..

Thommino

I have already a switch ( 2 A/V line in RCA) with tv tuner built in. It has rca A/V output Pal (2 audio + 1 video). I need a component that create an A/V Rgb in for Mazda Rx-8 module (Rgb),and switch when my swicth is power on. Do you understand?
I find only nav-visione that make this work but it is ntcs to rgb. I need pal to rgb that make this work.

Thommino

Maybe on European Mazda Rx-8 there is tv tuner in?
How can I identify it?

thew

you will have to go from NTSC to PAL... that's the only way. unless you can find one that is Pal to RGB... But if you already have a tuner and AV switcher that is pal, then you will need a pal to NTSC converter for your car..
Let me look at me Video sources and ill get back to you. I may have a source for a NTSC to PAL/PAL to NTSC converter. Ill get back to you.

Also if you had the T.V. tuner you would know.. but it would be mounted on the Right side of the trunk behind the Lining just behind the rear wheel. If you take out your trunk lining you will see a Small Square hole in the rear fender area. that's the spot where it would be. But if you had it you would already know.

good luck Ill get back to ya.

Mazda3ndp

ive been trying to follow this whole post.... i think what may be VERY helpful here is if. we could get a diagram/schematic of the connector of the nav unit, and the hu. Although I dont grasp this stuff as well as thew does but, My theory is that the connect that goes into the nav unit is unplugged, then plugged into the jdm tv unit to output to the screen, then an input from the jdm that plugs into the factory nav unit.

so it would look like this

nav unit ---->jdm unit ----> screen

this is my theory which is the same as splicing the wires, but it uses actual wiring harness to make it plug and play

the audio is the same

it probably has a connector that goes into the same input that one would use if they have a md player...

so its jdm unit --->inputted to hu ----> to speakers

i also suspect that in the harness that woudl connect into the factory md player, that when you hit the aux button for the jdm unit to have audio, it would trigger a relay in the jdm unit to turn the navigation off and allow the jdm unit to use the screen.

THIS IS MY OBSERVATION, I COULD BE 100% WRONG, please try not to flame me...

thew

Almost.. this is how is works ....

Nav unit --- LCD screen----LCD screen ----HU .

and For JDM cars.



Nav unit --- JDM T.V ------- LCD screen ---- HU .

The JDM t.v. intercepts the OEM DVD and switches between the inputs i.e... JDM Backup camera , JDM T.V. or Map DVD.

the T.V unit does not plug into the OEM DVD"Nav unit" the Nav unit goes to the JDM t.v. box and then it goes right to the HU. Per Mazda Japan... Nothing else beside the Toll booth counter plugs into the OEM DVD Nav unit.



We all know the HU controls the LCD because of the JDM t.v. screen we get with the Pie interface. ..... the HU senses continuity somewhere in the wiring harness that comes from the Nav. so your not going to find a bunch of wires coming from the Nav to the HU with Video and Audio.. its just sensing continuity and then allowing the LCD screen to switch.



So now we have beat this horse to death. When I get my PIE back from Bob I will try one more thing before i give up....

Thommino

I cannot find it.

Yes my switch has tv-tuner built in and it's pal/ntsc automatic converter:if I punt in line-in a pal signal it put out pal signal,if I send ntsc signal it put out ntsc signal (I think that it works in this way)

Is it simple to use? How much for them? Can I use with nav-vision controller?



Ok :-( But change also Nav System software?

InuYasha

Thew, I feel your pain man, however, As the Master says "Think of your gas tank as half full, rather than half empty"

On that note, I remain optimistic.

It used to be that a car was more mechanical that electrical :o . So, in the tradition of the real auto enthusiasts of olden days, while waiting for this whole issue of in-car television to resolve itself;

I think I'll get some grease under my finger nails and bust a knucke or two installing my new Mazdaspeed flywheel. :D

thew

I want one of those.. how much did it cost.. and please let me know how it drives after.. also I want to know about your MPG & off the line stats..

I have wanted that since day one.. I owned a car with one and it also had Metallic clutch disks.. 3 of them!\
It was a bear to slip the clutch.. but it was great form 2 gear on Talk about chirping 2nd gear ..

And yes.. I know we will get this worked out with the Video .. it will take time..

My glass is half full

Photic

At the risk of sounding incredibly stupid. but sometimes the small things can get overlooked (being a programmer I have been guilty of it many times).
That RCA connection looked very promising, and I don't recall seeing this mentioned at all in the past posts (I ran a search for Serial and only found it in 1 thread). But would that Secret Serial I/O menu (u,u,u,d,d,d,u,d) in the nav be of any use? I noticed an Enable all option. I thought this might enable that port that was a dead end.
Again I apologize if it has been covered or is way off base.

truemagellen

Photic...no no not stupid...you picked up on something that could be very important...we will all look into it (especially thew

thew

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photic

At the risk of sounding incredibly stupid. but sometimes the small things can get overlooked (being a programmer I have been guilty of it many times).

That RCA connection looked very promising, and I don't recall seeing this mentioned at all in the past posts (I ran a search for Serial and only found it in 1 thread). But would that Secret Serial I/O menu (u,u,u,d,d,d,u,d) in the nav be of any use? I noticed an Enable all option. I thought this might enable that port that was a dead end.

Again I apologize if it has been covered or is way off base.

Well,, you may have something here.. I just got out of my 8 and checked this out.. it does have a software switch to turn on the I/O serial connecter.. I will reinstall my pie tomorrow and see.. My serial port was turned off according to the screen.. so maybe its on in Bobs 8 ?

Hey Bob go to the Nav screen and try this.. get into the version screen .. hit the Joystick

up 3 times and the down 3 times then up once and down once. you will get a screen with 3 options choose the bottom one that says Serial I/O tell me if it says yours is enabled or disabled. If it is enabled all the entry's will say Disable k and so on.. if its Disabled like mine it will say Enable serial bla bla ....

Maybe yours is on.... WE hope.....

I am still trying mine again tomorrow..

InuYasha

Yeah, I had an RX-7 with a competition clutch in it, man it was tight, it always chirped between first and second. The transmission tore up after about 100,000 miles.

As for the new flywheel, I was thinking about installing it myself, but since my time is at a premium these days, I may just take it to the dealer.

Anyway

Qty Description Unit Amount
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 (RX08MS1011) Mazdaspeed Lightweight $522.00 $522.00
Flywheel

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal: $522.00
Total: $522.00

bobclevenger

Nope mine was off, but I just remembered something else last night.
Mu build date is 06/04 but the dealer (actually the stereo shop subcontractor) fried the stereo when I was having the Nav worked on and had to replace the whole thing, so my HU is newer than the rest of my car.

thew

AHHH>>>>> said Grasshopper.. I wounder if thats the rub.

bobclevenger

As more people report their build date, we may see a pattern emerge.

That's a hint, folks -- please report your build date (on the front pillar of the left rear door) as well as whether or not your PIE unit works. Thanks.