thegqpirate

ok I have owned 2 RX-7s and was terribly diapointed when my last one blew an Apex seal after 170k. i have missed the cars ever since.

While i am generally satisfied with the daily driveability and highway performance of my current ride, a loaded 2002 Dodge Stratus RT Coupe, being an overweight front wheel drive it corners like a pregnant yack.

I have yet to drive the RX-8 and i am very much hoping that its handling will impress me enough to make me overlook its rather disapointing appearance. It is surely an ugly car compared with the 7's but at least they didn't ruin as badly as Nissan ruined the new Z. must say it looks alot better im person than in picures.

but i Digress.

Other than its disapointoing lines the thing that deters me the most from buying what appears to be the only true sports car real people can afford is its ill concieved stereo system.

now i will not even bother wasting time evaluating the quality of the facory system becasue the simple fact is that no OEM stereo in any vehicle ever made compares to what the aftermarket offers.

so bottom line is any car i drive is getting the factory systems ripped out and a real one put in. by a real system i mean premium speakers all around 2-4 amplifiers and 2-6 subwoofers.

my current ride has alpine and rockford all around with 2 12's and 4 8's and 3 amps with a JVC kameleon head unit.

I already know that the RX-8 will not accept an after market CD player much to my dismay. my question is has anyone on these forums installed after markets stero components especially subwoffers and primary speakers with amps and if so what sort of success have you had?

also i am curious if anyone has done any custome work for subwoofer installs. i am specifically looing at removing the driver side rear seat ( as no one can sit behind my 6'1 self anyway) and installing subs there rather than or even in addition to subwoofers in the trunk.

if anyone has put subs int he trunk how large a speake can you fit and is there any trunk space left?

and what sort of sound quality and Db SPL levels have you achieved.

the RX-8 is very close to being my dream car but if this is a problem i can't overceom iw ill just look for a nice 3rd Gen RX-7.


any help would be much appreciated.

thanx

thegqpirate

since a line level converter will be necesary to turn the speaker level outputs into RCA inputs what sort of sound quality have you achieved as typically there is a lot of noise involved in such a practice.

in initially did that with my Dodge but the quality was terrible so i had to replace thehead unit which made all the difference.

I wish car companies would just do us the coutesy of puttin an RCA out on their factory systems if they are stupid enought o alienate the after market stereo audiphiles with their non standard systems.

so has anyone put in amplifiers running off the factory head unit without terrible sound distortion? and if so what did you use as a signal converter?

selmeralto

There is a lot of discussion of these matters. Try the Search function.

Astral

Search the forums, but I have had great success on other Mazda OEM stereos. Use a Line Output Converter from davidnavone.com (NV-774). It produces line level volume between 0-9.5V, which will get you less noise than the standard LOC output of 0-2V.

Also search the car audio forum... I just wanted to say that with *good* quality sub, *proper* enclosure and a proper amplifier, you only need a single *quality* 12" to make the roof flex (my recommendation is eD 12A). You will also have more space.

One of the posters achieved 145db with a single Brahma 10" in a Protege sedan. Think of what you can achieve with a good 12" in the similar-size RX8.

rotarymagic

I will have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you here. A "real" system is an opinion, and if your opinion is correct than 99% of cars do not come stock with real systems. (hence, 99% of cars do not come with 2-6 subwoofers.)

I am an audio "nut" myself and I feel that the stock system in the RX-8 is OK, good enough for daily use (for most people, for most types of music), and also, above average when it comes to stock systems. Yes, it could use more bass, but enough said.


But you are correct that no factory system matches what is offered in aftermarket. But the fact is, stock systems on most cars $30,000 and up are becoming very acceptable and are good enough for most types of music.


By the way what type of Music do you listen to? There are very few types of music that benefit from the type of system you have.

velociti

iTrader: (1)

Although I can't really offer any advice for you, I have to offer a few thoughts on your comment. Your sweeping generalization depends on a few different factors. From the sounds of it, stiffling amounts of power and bass are what make a sound system "good" to you. The Mark Levinson systems found on high end Lexus' offer excellent sound, as does the Dynaudio system found on some Volvo's. Bose, well, I'd rather not get into a lengthy diatribe on that particular company. My interpretation of a "good" sound system is totally independent of power ratings and subwoofer size, if one is even present. I'm a genuine audiophile whose home stereo speakers possess a pair of 6.5 inch woofers with bass down to 30hz. 2-6 "subs"? A subwoofer is supposed to be able to hit frequencies below the human hearing range, ie ~20hz, and very few actually do. If you're looking for a "good" sound system which actually produces better sound with better resolution, range, and clarity, all on a bigger and more accurate soundstage, I suggest you look at components from McIntosh Labs and Dynaudio. These companies know their fair share about actual hi-fi audio. Dynaudio's top of the line speaker, The Evidence, retails for $85,000 a pair...they sound awesome by the way.

thegqpirate

first of all i did search the forums before posting this and found nothing usefull. if someone knows of a thread that has a good discussion of this subject please post a link to it.


as a little bit of background i bought my first RX-7 from a man that won 2nd place in the world for a $25000 custom stereo instalation they did in a honda prelude. and MAN i tell you it was amazing. clear as can be up till the point you had to hold your ears

as for what type of music i listen too it is a varied mix but i can be anything. basically if it aint Coutry i can listent o it. as for what i typically listent o it is ussially Metal or Trance Paul Oakenfold, Massive Attack, Crystal method, Korn, Slipknot, Disturbed etc. ocassionally some 2pac or other decent Rap or house/club music. mostly Trance though. the sort of music that is best enjoyed live with 12 foot speaker stacks and bass so loud your heart will either synchonize to the beat or explode.

in a nutshell it has to have bass you can feel. whether you are liting to slow jazz by the rippingtons or death metal by Sepultura if you can't feel it in you chest it is nothing but background noise.



as for what makes a good system surely there are systems out there that have excellent sound quality. however to what point and at what volume? saying that a factory system was a good sytem becasue it sounded great at 40 decibels would be like saying that an RX-8 with a speed limiter set at 40 mph was a good sports car. sure it may hadle great at 40 but what happens if you wanna go 140?

the infinity system that came in my R/T sounded very good but had no power to speak of. sitting still at a stoplight listening to Jazz it sound likea great system. but when you are listing to some Oakenfold or Crystal Method all you can hear is the speakers bottomin out as they try in vain to hit frequencies beyond their capabilities. i think i had blown 2 of my speakers within a month of owning the car.

if i was cruising down the highway at 85mph with the window down and the sunroof back i could not hear it at all.

so while bose systems may have great sound quality they are only capable of that quality at low to moderate volume.

so what defines a good system to me is one that will produce clear sound at a volume that allows me to hear every nuance while driving 80-120mph with the windows and sunroof open. it also must produce bass i can feel. basically if you have ever stood infront of the speaker stacks at a Rave or Heavy metal concert that is what the car stereo must duplicate.


the trick is really not the Bass though. adding subwoofers to a factory system is realtively easy. the total harmonic distortion is less of a factor in subwoofers. i tried this in my R/T but what i found was that oncei added the subs the bass was overpowering the mains and i had one of those cars that did nothing but boom.

i thne tried amplifing the mains but retaining the factory head unit to deter theft but was faced with significant signal loss and distortion. it sounded like crap.

finally i was forced to rip out the chrysler/infinity 4 disk changer and put in a relatively low end JVC CD player and it made all the difference. now the car is loud as hell and clear as a bell.

if any of you have any insight into how one can achive really good sound in an RX-8 with aftermarket amplifiers without tons of noise production lemme know cuz i am really liking the car overall and am almost ready to buy it but i wnat to know what i am getting into.

I am even considering having a custom encloser for an after market CD player made and mounted where ever is convenient and leaving the factory system as a waste of space if need be but i would hate to do that unless it is absolutely necessary. i would love to be able to use the factory system and just run after marker amps and speakers but i want ot know what sort of sucvcess other have had with this.

i wish the auto maker would just wise up one of these decades and start making their factory systems with a pair of RCA outputs that would solve all of these problems.

they are only hurting themsleves with this practive becasue it alienates audiophiles. if this were any other car than a Mazda RX powered buy any other engine than a Wankel Rotary that i love so much i would have dismissed it the second i realized i could not mount a standard DIN sized Head unit.

D MENAC 7

Not being a big fan of Bose due to their tendency in the home market of pushing small drivers for large sound and not delivering enough bass FMO, I am not disatisfied with with this system. Though I am middle aged, my tastes are for newer rock and this system seems to fit the bill for quality.

How often are you planning to do 140 with your windows open, btw? And you are disapointed with the RX-8's lines but you feel that apart of the stock sound system the RX-8 is very close to your dream car?

With criticism aside, if you look hard, the system is designed with several amps which are located in each door and one under the rear deck. These have to be fed by the head somehow so they should have some sort of signal, other than speaker level, running to them. Couldn't you tap in at that point and provide a signal to the sub-system you are designing? The rear speakers are described as 6X9s in their description, but I have not looked at them close since I am not planning any audio mods to my RX.

They do describe the door speakers as a 9 inch sub with a two-state modulation amplifier and the rear amp as being "digital".

This seems to me that it could help provide some modification of the stock, yet optional, Bose Premium sound system capability.

thegqpirate

that depends. where i live it is all to easy to do. lots of back roads. i frequently go motorcycle riding and top 140mph for exteneded periods. my RX-7s were speed limited at 129 but it was not all that often that i would get them up there on some of these lonely Highways. generally though if i am going that fast i will have the radio off though. more importatnly i drive to work every day at 80mph with the windows down. at least in the summer. i hate having my windows up and about the only time i will use an air conditioner is when i am wearing a a suit or it is over 100 degrees.

as for the RX-8 being my dream car it is so because i love rotary power and it is the only car under 50 grand that doesn't corner like a school bus. if i could afford a Corvette or a Porsche i might be looking elsewhere.

as for power I have yet to drive any car that i considered fast as I ride a motorcycle that can smoke italian exotics without even approching redline. cracked me up the other day when some cocky dude in a C5 Vette actaully wanted to race me. he stopped smiling after i gave him a 3 second head start then pulled along side him in 4th gear dropped to 2nd and left him behind like he was parked.

so since the slowest sport bikes out there today pull 10's in the quarter and the fast one pull 9's while a lamborghini Murcielago pull a flat 12 and the Corvette ZO6 pulls a 12.8 i will never look for SPEED in a car.

what the RX-8 can do that my Bike cannot is take 90 degree street corners at 30mph with out terrifying me or falling over giving me road rash.

the looks of the car are growing on me. still think the 3rd gens looked better but as i approach 30 and i get more involved with my Girlfriend and her 3 year old aughter the ability to put a kid in the back seat is becoming more of a selling point and is just one more reason (as iff i needed more) to choose the 8 over the new Z.

the Z is quicker. they always have been. but nothing corners like an RX. and it is all about ocrnering to me. cornering and an engine that accepts any gear at any speed effortlessly without lurching on or off the throttle.

but while the RX is near perfect for what i want and need the stereo is a big hang up. i may try those line level converter suggested above and see how well that does. as for tapping in between the factory amps and the head unit that will likely be impossible. as muchi i would like to remove those amps to save weight and take signal straight from the head unit chances are they are not the right voltage. my car did that number with their non standard systme and 2 ohm speakers with wierd interfaces.

well i will have to figure it out. again if anyone knows of a thread where some has added amps and speakers to the Bose system let me know. i wish i did not have to pay for the damn bose system in the first place but i am further angered by mazda's touring package that requires you to wast money on useless **** like heated seats just to get a sunroof

rotarygod

After staring at the interior of the RX-8 for a while I believe that I could get a pair of HLCD's (horn loaded compression drivers) from Image Dynamics under the dash functionally and install a set of 6" mids in the floor that uses up no usable floor space! I am finally back working on my single 8" sub enclosure that replaces the "ski-hole" panel. This will be the system that I do in my car. I have a Rockford Symmetry EPX2 and a McIntosh MC440 amp. That system should make you happy. It isn't cheap but if it were it would be called BOSE. Another option would be a set of Focal components in the front somewhere in their own enclosures.

BTW: My credentials are floating around on this forum somewhere but lets just say I spent several years building the competition cars that you speak of.

Japan8

What about something similar to the Bose setup...

[FRONT]
Image Dynamics NX30 Tweeters
Kicker Resolution 02RMB8 8" Mid-bass
Image Dynamics X4 Passive Crossover

[REAR]
Kicker K-Series 02K69 6x9 Coaxial speakers (mid-range + rear fill)

[AMP]
Dunno... not sure about how much power to push it all, but thinking just a 4 channel amp, 5 with a sub box. Maybe Rockford Fosgate or Polk Audio??

- OR -

[FRONT]
Focal 165A 6 1/2" Component set

[REAR]
Focal 690 CA 6x9 2-way Coaxial

[SUB... mounted in Rotarygod's sealed "Stealthbox"]
Rockford Fosgate Punch Z
-OR-
JL Audio 8W3v2
-OR-
Image Dynamics ID8 v.3

[AMP]
See above.


[Line Conversion]
NV-774 on http://www.davidnavone.com
- OR -
Peripheral Premium Sound Line Output Converter
- OR -
Audiolink PL2 Speaker-Level-RCA Line Output Converter

I've never tried any of the above lin converters, however... Astral has and suggested that the NV-774 is a solid product...

Japan8

thegqpirate, what kind of bike do you ride?

jonnyb

if you really want a high end audio system then you are going to have to bypass the stock unit altogether. just put a new head unit in the glove box or if you want to get fancy put the main unit under your seat and mount the faceplate in your visor or someplace close.

and the reason auto makers make it a pain in the *** to remove the stock system is because they dont want you to replace it. they would rather have you just order a "higher end" system from the factory for $1000+.

also, velociti is right, some stock systems actually are quite nice; especially ones by harmon kardon and mark levinson.

skrubol

iTrader: (1)

I just got an RX8 and have a Symmetry EPX2 laying around. Rotarygod, do you need any external level converter or balun? I'm interested in just adding the EPX2 and a sub and amp, leaving the OEM amps, speakers and HU with the EPX2 between the HU and amps.
Thanks a bunch.
(first post btw, just got an '04 GT a few days ago.)

firebirdude

iTrader: (3)

Criticism, stock systems and use the search feature aside....

You should just bite the bullet and replace the OEM headunit. We know decent sound quality can be achieved with a quality LOC, but why even bother when you're talking Dynaudio and McIntosh gear at $1k+ per component.

lurch519

you can do an aftermarket deck in the 8.

either pony up for the corksport kit, its currently $443, retains the heater ac controls, etc, and can support a double din sized radio.


or you can do the top mount kit, replaces the panel above the radio display


im not sure about pricing or where to get the second option, but i know its out there

also, you can have someone custom fabricate either option.

i personally did the second option myself, but it doesnt look nearly as good, as it was my first attempt at any kind of custom work

i am also running diamond d9 components in the front doors, with 1 each of the alpine pdx 2.150 (yes, that is 300 watts per amp) to each door.

i havent done anything with the rear deck yet, and i am still deciding what to do about subs.

Socket7

The stock HU puts out a surprisingly clean signal.
You can tap into the differential speaker level outputs at the back of the stock HU, and run them into a high quality line output converter. Run the pre-amp level outputs from the LOC to your quality amp's and speakers, or an EQ, or whatever.

There is no better way to upgrade your stereo while leaving the stock HU in place. Personally I am a big fan of making everything look stock. If you want the modded look, or are a complete audiophile, You can use one of the kits lurch posted to get a "perfect" signal path and the HU of your choice.