Does it bother anyone how hard it will be to replace the head unit with anything but a Mazda one which I am sure it won't be cheap?

 

I don't plan to replace it.

I think it looks very stylish, and the sound quality and volume levels capable through the unit, are *very* acceptable in my books for a stock unit.

My beef is with some of the minor details, such as lack of a good line-in, speaker selection, and lack of an acceptable subwoofer.

Other than that, I think that it's a well designed unit, and does quite a lot, compared to other units, and without it, Mazda wouldn't be able to make these other neat things (NAV and JDM TV tuner) work so easily.

There have been plenty of other threads posted about replacement of the stock HU, speakers, and other components. It would be a time consuming and expensive ordeal, but perhaps worthwhile if you really appreciate the audio functions and features that the car does not provide.

If you undertake this, Be prepared to also replace the other amplifiers (behind the ash-tray and the rear deck-lid if bose equipped) and every speaker, since they are all very 'non industry-standard' components.

It's very do-able, but unless you are VERY keen and have an eye for the aesthetics, it won't easily look better than the stock unit.

Regards,

OverLOAD

ps: Head unit audio quality does not necessarily translate into superior sound through the speakers, there are other variables in the equation before you hear the sound from the HU (eq, speakers, secondary Amp, etc.

 

not so much thinking about replacing the head unit now but down the road when it breaks your not going to be able to go to Crutchfield or whatever and get a new one. You will probably have to go to the dealer and pay a much higher price(even with a discount).

 

Since Alpine has announced that they will be incorporating an iPOD control interface in some of their head units in the near future, I want one even more than before! It is just so annoying that more manufacturers are moving to this non-standard form factor stuff, I don't care how snazzy it looks.

jds

 

I like the idea of having controls for the radio in my steering wheel. Every time I drive my rx7 I forget im not in my 8 and I hit the horn instead

 

yes i wonder why it is when the home PC and stereo theatre markets are getting closer and clser to gether and more interactive particularly Gateway products why is is that these idiot Car manufactureres insist on alienating the audiphile buy making it such an ordeal to upgrade the stereos.

i remmber a few years back i new several people that specifically bought Hondas becasue they made great stereo platforms. didn't car about anything else about that car but they knew they could make it thunp and sound great and that was all that maters.

I also know many people that own SUVs not becasue they need to tow things or to go off road but because the can mont 22 inch wheels and 15 inch subwoofers in a huge box. there is a guy in town here with a Ford expidition that has the entire vehicle gutted from the drvers seat back and hanve over $50,000 worth of stereo gear in it.

guys like that would simply have a custom made dash installed to accomodate the head unit they desired but those of us that will be stretching out budgets to get the RX-8 at all may be able to afford a few amps and speakers but can't afford to have a custom dash built.

I love the stearing wheeel controls and the head unit is nice but i just whish there was a way to add amps without dealing wisth line level converters that rob signal and give distortion instead.

would it be too much trouble for them just to put a pair of RCA outputs on the back of the damn radio? or just amke the system use standards RCA connections and 4 ohm speakers?

 

Look at this thread...

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=18353

check out R Magic's widebody center console...they have done something similar to what I am attempting right now...

I have made an initial mold from the current center but am trying to make it more custom looking almost along the same lines as the one pictured in that thread...

I believe Rotarygod is going to attempt this as well in the near future..he's pretty backed up right now with a few builds in Houston....i think....

anyway....i should have something in the upcoming weeks to post pictures of so people can have an idea of what I can get to work...if all turns out well I will sell these on a limited run...as it takes a while to run the mold and make sure everything turns out as it's supposed to....being cold doesn't help the setting process either....

 

Didn't someone already find line-level feeds into the Bose amp to tap into?
It would be spending money that wouldn't get them anymore customers, so it would be wasted money.

And if I'm not mistaken, the speakers are already 4 ohm in the RX8 (as opposed to other Bose setups).

---jps

 

the aftermarket audio market is HUGE. as i stated above there are people that chose their car soley on the basis of its use as a stereo platform for many others it a serious consideration.

so it most certainly is a matter of money and getting them customers. i know several people that have eliminated cars from their shopping choices becasue of the integral factory units.

it would perhaps cost them a dollar or two two out a pair of RCA outs on the back. thought they would surely charge 50 to 150 for it just like every other factory stereo rip off.

I will never unders stand how car makers can put a system in car and charge $1500-$4000 when you could build a better sounding system from components you can get at Sears for $400-$800 or less. hell the head unit in my first RX-7 was like $1500 itslef and sound like crap compared to the $200 panasonic i put in to replace it.

 

would you expect anything different from a auto manufacturer...

the same goes for minor mods...i've always asked myself, since an aftermarket intake and exhaust always ends up being some of the first mods done and improve performance even at a minimum...why the hell do manufacturers still use the crap they use today...i would gladly pay 500-600 more for a car that came from the factory already with, for instance, HKS exhaust and K&N Typhoon intake...

but they are out to make money..and some how they justify that the POS stuff they put in a factory equipped car is worth all the extra $$$....

 

Do you really think the addition of a pair of RCA outputs are going to sway those people? Anyone who can put together a high-end system will be able to tap into the right wires just as easily. They're already doing a bit of work, so this won't make a major difference in the effort it takes.

The percentage of people who buy cars like RX8s and do major stereo upgrades is still very small, and each of those will have a different idea of what they want. So from a fiscal standpoint, there is little reason to make too much effort along those lines.

Those who are going to put the time, effort, and money into a major system are not going to be stopped by an integrated head unit. Only wanna-bes are.

Marketing results show that in the price range of the RX8, more people are going to be drawn by the unique design of the integrated stereo system (as opposed to the same boring setup that practically every other car has), than are going to be repelled by the fact that replacing the head unit won't be a bolt-in affair.

---jps

 

You are right, car companies are out to make money. So if they thought that customers would buy a car if those items were put on there, they sure as hell would do it, wouldn't they? The thing is, you might gladly pay more, but most will not. As big as the aftermarket industry is at this point, the amount of people actually modifying their cars is still rather small, and like the stereo situation, everyone has a different idea of what they want. The overwhelming majority would rather save that money and go with what the factory has, or save that money, and spend it on a different setup.

But there is a bigger consideration. You need to realize that bigger intakes and exhausts are not magical items that improve performance. They actually only trade off certain performance gains for others, which is why it is called "tuning". For every length of pipe and the amount of gas or fluid that you want to pump through it (such as exhaust), there is an optimum diameter of that pipe that will be the most efficient, and offer the best performance. Too big or too small, and efficiency suffers.

The amount of air an engine takes in, and exhaust that it expels, varies greatly throughout the different rpm ranges and throttle settings, especially the high rpm ranges that the rotary offers. Even for someone who is a leadfoot, the majority of the time (somewhere along the lines of 95% and higher, depending) the engine is actually at idle or cruise (very light throttle). The amount of flow through the intake and exhaust are very low compared to WOT. Intakes and exhaust that are tuned more towards idle and cruise (smaller) will make a significant difference in mileage, off-throttle response, and even low-end torque. Mileage numbers are a major consideration with most consumers, and during 99% of the driving that 99% of drivers do in 99% of the vehicles in America, off-throttle response and low-end torque is more important than a handful of horses in high-rpms. So that's where the buying power goes.

When you put on a bigger exhaust system, you trade off mileage (on the order of 5 mpg and higher in some cases, depending on the car, what you actually modify, etc.), low rpm performance, and off-throttle response for a few HP in the upper rpm range. If you are okay with giving those things up for a few HP, then great! But the majority of the car buyers in the RX8 range do not want to give that up, and would rather have a quieter running engine. On a car like the Honda S2000, most customers would rather have more HP at higher rpms, and so they came with open element air intake systems, and bigger exhausts. But on a car like a Honda Civic, most buying the new car want mileage, quiet, and off-throttle response. The exhaust and intakes are tuned for very low flow and good mileage. That is why intakes and exhaust (not just mufflers) upgrades make such a difference in peak HP in a Civic.

---jps

 

very interesting, great post.

 

yes i see this alot in the sport bike market. the difference beign that it is the reverse. most people that buy sport bikes are overly swayed buy peak horspower at high rpm. they are also overly swayed byt race results.

what this has produced is that many of the "fastest" bike out there kinda suck on the street. sue they win races but a race is run with those engines constantly between 9000 and 16000rpms.

and yes those bikes are stupid quick once they hit 10,000rpms but do you have any idea how fast you have to be goin even in 1st gear to hit 10,000rpms?

so for comparison my older bike has a longer stoke motor that can't rev that high and has less horsepower but at 4000rpm-7000rpm it has more torque and more horse power than the modern bikes.

so in a wide open 1/4 mile race they will take me for sure. and on a circuit track the new bikes with track tuned suspensions and ore HP will leave me in thier dust. HOWEVER on the street when we are cruising at 55mph and i want to pass a car in front of me i don't have to drop 3 gears to have enough power to make it around before that semi comes to splat us.

at the speed where we do most of our riding my bike is every bit as quick. in fact my 600cc is just as quick in the mid range as many 750cc bikes because they are so peaky.

so sure the peaky wide open bikes are ultimatley faster but they are not practically faster. sure you can roll you suzuki around town in 1st gear all the time with the motor shreiking loudly at 10,000rpm attractinc cops and pissing off neighbors and having to shift it all the time to keep it in its very narrow power band. or you can ride a bike that is not quite as good a racer but has enough midrange grunt to pull the wheel up when you twist the throttle at 4000rpm.

also a few of the new bikes address that exhaust issues witha very interesting solution. yamaha invented a thing called E.X.U.P (forget what it stads for) that is a computer controlled valve in between the header and the muffler that closes off the exhaust at high rpm and open sit wide in the low end.

what this does is allow the bike to have more torque buy letting the engine spin freely at low rpm giving it ore grunt. then as it peaks and the engine losses stability it pinches off the exhaunst valve at the end of the header and increases back pressure. this stabilizes the engine and allows it to rev higher without blowing up and achieve more horsepower.

i wonder if anything like this has been done in cars. someone surely knows.

anyway. as for the stereo issue what a few of you are overlooking is that there is a rather large segment of people out there that are upgrading stereos that are NOT making showcars with $20,000 "major systems"

i don't want o build a show car. i am not going to paint my RX-8 to look like it belond in fast and the furious. i am not going to remodel the entire interior of the car.

i like the car just fine the way it is. all i want to do is have a system that offers what the car does. reall performance for a price reall peole can afford.

here is the inventory of my current system.

JVC kameleon headunit
$189

pair of alpine 6.5s
$129

pair of alpine 6x9s
$169

pair of rockford fosgate 12" subs
$129 each or $260

12x2 speaker box
$120

pair of rockford fosgate 8" subs
$79 each or $160

2, 8" truck boxes (mount behind drivers seat)
$25 each or $50

4 ga wiring kit.
$50

alpine 50x4 amp
$250

JBL 180x2 amp
$230

Pyramid 600x2 amp
$400

Total
around $2000 plus taxes and instalation.

that si what i am prepaired to pay and what i consider a REAL system. not a MAJOR system. it sound great but it did not cost half of what the car did.

 

First, you need to remember that the majority of buyers of this car are casual listeners. They will spend time, effort, and money on stereo upgrades only if the stock stereo is very poor. The Bose system in the RX8 is actaully as good or better than the stereos available in competitively priced cars, so it is already good enough that it will sway more casual listeners than not. Any improvements to the stereo will not appreciably increase the number of car buyers who are casual listeners.

Each person who plans on upgrading any factory stereo has different needs. For example, I would never match a pair of inexpensive 6.5s and 6x9s with a pair of 8 inch AND a pair of 12 inch subs. At this point, there aren't many changes that Mazda could make that would appeal to the majority of these buyers. At this price range, the amount of people who are interested in this particular car, but would actually buy another car simply because of something that would make things awkward for them to do what they want to the stereo, is actually very small. So any changes and increases in cost would not appreciably increase the number of car buyers in this segment either.

It is certainly true that there are alot of us who would prefer a more "modifier-friendly" stereo system, and are vocal about it. But what matters to a car company the most is that it is NOT enough of an issue for a significant majority of even this segment of people to actually buy a different car. The fact of the matter is, the other cars in this price range have their own issues with installing stereo upgrades. So there isn't any major reason for anyone in this segment to go with a different car anyway.

---jps

 

all of that may very well be true. however designing a system that eleminates customers unnecesarrily withoug providing any benefit makes little sense.

i supposes this ia a matter of design philosophy and ultimate marketing vs overall customer satisfaction.

the thing that I see going on is that making the radio the way they have provides absolutley no benefit to the consumer and on the contrary is deterimental in every way.

making the radio and the climate contraolls all part of a single combined unit is the worst kind of design if you are looking to be practical. but what is practical is not always proffitable. if this were for exmaple a military vehicle such a desgn would never be considered. the reason for this is that should the radio go out one must also replace the cintegral climate contraoll unit at a much greater cost.

a modular system like most cars use allows one to replace the radio or the heater controls separately should they fail. however in the RX-8 if a circuit fries on one of your heater ***** rather than replacing it with a used part for $50 like i did on my 1986 RX-7 i must now buy what is likely a coulbple thousand dollar console with everything in it.

so while i am sure Mazda is all tooo happy to sell us a $2000 units that requires a $400 install but as a consumer it pisses me off knowing that i might be facing that when i could simple replace the heater **** alone or replace the radio with a much cheaper and far superior 3rd party head unit.

so my questionis even if it is a cool proprietary BOSE system,why couldn't they have simply made the stereo a separate device from the heater controls? may make little difference to those buyers that will trade it in 3 years but that guy who is still driving his 2004 RX-8 in 2014 is going to be way pissed when that thing dies and he has to pay to replace a cvery expensive unit. assuming you can ever get it any more. the SYstem in my RX-7 was no longer available by the time it died.

so while surely mazda will make alot of money selling these overpriced consoles to people that did not even need to replace the entire unit, it is rather rude to so blatantly screw you customers in the name of capitalism.

the marketing strategy may work but it is high objectionable. another thing that REALLY pisses me off is that in oder to get a damn sunroof on this thing i have to get a package that include many feature for which i have no use what so ever. Like heated seats.

I fail to see th value of heated seats in any car even in cold climates but it makes even less sense to combine it with a sunroof as a package. I want a sunroof so i can enjoy the warm sun in South Florida. what the ehll do i need heated seats and mirrors for in a palce wher it rarely never drops below 70 degrees?

but there again mazda will sucker the consumer out of more hard earned cash because we cannot order options alla carte.

if it were possible i would order my RX-8 with the 6-speed, the good engine. the sunroof. the sport suspension and not a damn thing else. maybe the pollished 18" wheels, though i would be perfectly happy if the carr arrived on a set of 13in steel wheels so that i can go buy some nice after market ones. don't care about leather. certainly don't need a $2000 nav system when my $200 handheld GPS does the same thing and i can take it with me when i leave the car. and if it were up to me i would order the car with no stereo in it at all. that way i am not paying for junk i am just going to throw away.

I miss the days when you could actually do that. My parrents bought their honda with no stereo at all and had an aftermarket one installed

but is suppose the marketiing strategy is not unlike or pork barrel politics system. if you watnt o get the good stuff you have too buy a bunch of worthless crapo that they "package" together with it.

I as seriously considering ordering a complete basemodel RX-8 and and having a sunroof installed aftermarket thoughi am not sure i trust them. other wise i am quite sure that for the price difference between a base model and a touring package/appearance package with polished wheels i could put everything i wanted on the car aftermarket and have a more unique vehicle.

 

You have a very simple option. If you don't like it, don't buy the car. If your main focus in life is having a "system" get another car. It's that easy.

 

And the B.S meter goes wild...

Sorry, but don't tell me you seriously believe that the integrated stereo came about because "marketing results" say that buyers this "geez wiz Wally, this is neat-o!" BUZZ! Not likely. Look at the Ford Focus, 2005 Ford Mustang, late model ford Tarus, Mazda 6, Mazda 3... see a pattern? It's a Ford group thing... Ford has decided for whatever reason to use this type of system... intergrating the climate controls and stereo.

When it first came out in the Tarus it was said that Ford was intentional trying to cut out the aftermarket audio companies. If people see this system as an upgrade problem and thus spend more money to settle for the Bose system or the "Mach 360" then Ford makes more money. This works well also if you consider that they aren't offering you a choice between panasonic and pioneer.... this is Bose, HK, Clarion, Blapunkt (sp?)... these manufacturers have purposefully made deals to have their products used in the that auto maker's vehicles.

 

Which customers have been eliminated? Do you honestly know anyone who has actually bought a car other than the RX8 primarily due to the stereo setup (as opposed to financing, option packages, price, etc.)? Not just people who have an opinion on it, but someone who has put their money down on a car.

I'm not saying that there won't be some people, everyone has their priorities. My point is that the number of people is actually very very small. You need to look at the design a little closer. The only common piece is the faceplate itself. Take off that faceplate, and the climate controls are as common and separately replaceable parts (including the circuits in the heater ***** ), just like your RX7, and any other car.
Of course they have. If they have determined that this is a viable design for them (whether because of marketing research, or consipiracy with audio manufacturers), it is logical to use it on several models, and save money by having common parts.

Quote:

When it first came out in the Tarus it was said that Ford was intentional trying to cut out the aftermarket audio companies. If people see this system as an upgrade problem and thus spend more money to settle for the Bose system or the "Mach 360" then Ford makes more money.

That's a nice conspiracy theory, except for the fact that the Taurus that originally had the proprietary console didn't have a Bose system upgrade for people to spend money on. And it's the upgraded Bose and "Mach 360" systems in all of these cars which are so difficult for people to upgrade. It's actually much easier to add amps and upgraded speakers to the base stereos, which would cause Ford to lose money if someone wants an upgraded system.

Quote:

...these manufacturers have purposefully made deals to have their products used in the that auto maker's vehicles...

Every major manufacturer produces OEM audio equipment. It's not a conspiracy with auto makers to kill aftermarket audio, it's simply another market where they can sell their products and make money.

---jps

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sputnik
Of course they have. If they have determined that this is a viable design for them (whether because of marketing research, or consipiracy with audio manufacturers), it is logical to use it on several models, and save money by having common parts.

Exactly my point.


That's a nice conspiracy theory, except for the fact that the Taurus that originally had the proprietary console didn't have a Bose system upgrade for people to spend money on. And it's the upgraded Bose and "Mach 360" systems in all of these cars which are so difficult for people to upgrade. It's actually much easier to add amps and upgraded speakers to the base stereos, which would cause Ford to lose money if someone wants an upgraded system.

Ah, but as you just said to someone else... that number of people is small. And so if Ford offers a better quality upgraded system... people can get the car with that from the factory, its part of the regular warranty and they can roll the cost into lan, rather than spend thousands in cash out of pocket. The truth is, I think a lot of normal people will think the Mach 460 or bose is decent if not good, and thus having it added on...


Every major manufacturer produces OEM audio equipment. It's not a conspiracy with auto makers to kill aftermarket audio, it's simply another market where they can sell their products and make money.

You underestimate them. Well GM spun off Delco. but anyway... its not so much that they are doing this to directly squash the aftermarket audio market, but rather like aftermarket engine/rims... Ford sees what buyers like/want and is trying to pick up that cash instead of sending them to Audio XYZ to get a $500- 1,000 stereo upgrade.

 

yes this is a ford thing. and ford ahas a long history of deliberately designing cars in such a way that dealer only parts are needed and dealer only labor ir required. to the masses this is not much of a factor since the don't know any better but alot of people that like to tinker of even do simple maitenance themselves hate it and hate ford group for it. i mean fo god sack a taurus sable has to be taken to the dealer just to have the plugs changed because they deliberatly designed the car so tha tthe entire intake system has to be removed just to get to them.

wel that is a rather poor an unenlightened attitude. BUT sure that is a way to go and one i would seriously consider if there were ANY other sport car offerings worth looking at for under 40 grand. unfortunately barring the micro midget Miata and MR-S that i can't even sit in NOONE has made a RWD sports car that the average buyer can afford for about a decade. the closes thing was the 350Z and comparing the two cars as i spent a coule hours looking at both today there is no comparison. the RX-8 wins hands down in appeal and is the better handling car. so YES i would buy another car over the Mazda for this reason if there was another car to buy. unfortunately the RX-8 is the only true sports car once can buy for 30 k or so. So i asm stuck with this annoyance. if i was a bit richer i might just get the Vette.

.actually yes. not RX-8's as they are still quite new. i only saw the car at a dealer ship last week for the first time. however i do know several people that have elliminated cars particlarly ford taurus' and such from their shopping lists becasue they could not do the stereo they wanted. they ultimately bought other cars specifically for that reason. one guy in particular had a really great deal he could have gotten on this taurus SHO with ever option ford offeres. but he ened up getting a 4 cycinder honda with fewer options and actuallypaying MORE becasue he could get the system he wanted in that car.


but ultimately i have good news. I decided to put the factory system to the test today. there is a nice little yellow RX-8 witha touring package on my way to work and i decided to drop in and put the stereo through its paces. I would seriously consider buying this very car if it were not for the sacriligious act of putting an autmatic transmission in a sports car. If i were king that would be illegal. nothing disgusts me quite like ruining a perfectly good sports car buy putting in an auto trans. either learn to drive stick or you don't have any business owning a sports car.

but hey thats just my oppinion. I could be wrong. as Dennis miller says.

but anyway I must say for a factory set up it is most impressive. one of the best OEM if not the best OEM stereo i have heard. it is fairly loud and quite clear. bass response is excellent for a factroy system but still leaves much to be desired. So I figure with a coulple of line level converters I can tap the rears and add a pair of 12"s with a 500 watt amp or so and be good to go.

the back seat is pretty much uselss with my 6'1" *** at the wheel and i will never need, or be able to, put more than my Grirlfeind and her kid in the car So i figure i should be able to remove the drivers side rear seat and build a custom enclosure for a pair of 12's right behind my seat. that should do the trick and will ultimately be cheaper than a complete system.

I am not sure which is louder or clearer My system or the RX-8s without hoing back and forth between that acar a few times but considering i am only running a 50x4 amp to my mids and highs i think the factory system will be ok once i add the subs.

the back seat is nicne though meansi i can put two 12" right behing my seat without losing any trunk space and better yet without having the trunk rattle from the base. subs alwyas sound and perform better when tey are in the cabin such a sa hatch back anyway.


mow if i can just get the sunroof without having to pay for the heat4ed seats. anyone know is that always part of the same package or is that a regional thing? do guys in florida have to get heated seats to get a sunroof too? seems silly. if not i may just wait till i get down there to buy it

PS and yes I know my typing is terrible but i am farr too impatient to edit it all. move fast, talk fast, drive fast, type fast. fortunately i am far better at talking and driving than i am at typing

so hey sorry

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Japan8

Quote:

[i]...That's a nice conspiracy theory, except for the fact that the Taurus that originally had the proprietary console didn't have a Bose system upgrade for people to spend money on. And it's the upgraded Bose and "Mach 360" systems in all of these cars which are so difficult for people to upgrade. It's actually much easier to add amps and upgraded speakers to the base stereos, which would cause Ford to lose money if someone wants an upgraded system.

Ah, but as you just said to someone else... that number of people is small...

No, what I said was that the number of people who will actually buy another car primarily due to the difficulty in changing the stereo is very small. Casual listeners might be more apt to get the upgraded stereo than go aftermarket, but there are enough people out there who would rather save money by going with the base instead, and upgrading on their own. I'm one of those people (I'm not saying that it means that everyone else thinks that way, I'm just saying I'm one of those people).

---jps

 

Sputnik, we sound like we almost in the same boat now. I'd rather Ford group didn't put that intergrated stereo in the cars, especially the "high-end" ones. I too would rather get the base stereo and go aftermarket and have something that sounds better...

 

Fwiw, and you may choose to believe this or not, the fact that this and all the other new Mazda cars have the integrated dash is a factor in my upcoming choice of a new car. Or any other car that has one. I've done many installs in my previous cars but they were all regular "din" radios, not like this integrated crap. I am not one of those people that will spend "$20,000 on a system" and I do not wish to spend $1000 on a custom install for the head unit either. I want a regular stand alone radio that I can rip out myself without an electronics engineering degree and the abilitiy to put in my aftermarket radio that is ten times better than the OEM.

I think car makers are going in the wrong direction by choosing to do this, whatever those reasons are and I for one will vote with my wallet when it comes to my next car. It will most likely have a "regular" radio.

 

I am pretty irritated. I took my Pioneer 8400 motorized flip-face deck out of my M3 and can't really put it in my RX-8. I also took out my Focal Polyglass speakers and I can't really replace the stock speakers because of the size. The only thing I could do would be a custom set up but that would cost buko $$$. And if I did replace my deck I would loose my steering wheel controls and I like them. Lame.