636

Well if the manifold is high quality then whats there to worry about? I know some guys were questioning where they had things manufactured? Just swap the turbo and put a gt30 in there or something. Im going to be buying this kit once i have the money for it =/. Oh yeah and i heard someones motor popped from a stuck injector? What was the reason for this? Sorry to bring up old news -_-.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

it wasnt involved with an Esmeril turbo kits, just injectors supplied by Esmeril

alz0rz

iTrader: (41)

never understood how a stuck injector results in engine failure?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

dunno dont recall the story.... the member with the prob has posted about it in this thread iirc a few pages back

truemagellen

He only had injectors from us, not the Esmeril turbo kit. An alz0rz is right, the engine simply flooded, if it broke it occurred later on totally unrelated to the injectors (it is not clear if it broke or if he just switched to a different 13B because the shop was unable to work with the Renesis). What was curious about the situation is more than one injector was stuck open simultaneously which is usually caused by EMS setup, or improper installation (which can include debris in the line).

truemagellen

This was going to be a great secret but we will be offering more than one turbo option in the next month.

We will still offer our hand picked turbo we have always offered (currently available), the same one that accomplished 414whp and over 20K miles of use (still running!).

If you are shooting for very high HP numbers (500whp+) after you build up your setup over time then we recommend going with the original turbo we offer. That way you can enjoy your kit from the start and have extra cash as you slowly add components to withstand 500whp+ (like ignition upgrade, clutch, etc.) then you can upgrade to a much larger turbo for that 500whp range.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i think your statement is missing a few grand worth of upgrades for the car to stay in one piece @ 500+whp. ignition and clutch are needed in the 375-400whp range... 500+ you're talking about tranny's and other driveline components. tell chris to crank it up though.. itd be interesting to see how long he can keep a motor together at that level

Assuming this even larger turbo will be another mystery piece?

dillsrotary

I disagree, there isn't enough data to support that a couple grand is needed to support this figure since there are not enough examples of hp that high. We can agree the transmission is a weak link within the car, but its still untold if it can handle that amount of HP 7 out of 10 times.

truemagellen

I wouldn't say a larger turbo is a mystery piece...as 414whp is more than enough power for the current turbo that is included. A larger turbo for 500whp+ is mandatory, now which turbo...that will be a mystery for now.

And have you seen EsmeriRacing.com in the past couple months?, http://esmerilracing.com/Apex_Seals.html
+ some other things we have up our sleeve.

Oh and the transmission is a lot stronger than you think...as long as you upgrade the clutch.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=dillsrotary;2831547][QUOTE=paulmasoner;2831515]i think your statement is missing a few grand worth of upgrades for the car to stay in one piece @ 500+whp.i'll wait till the first 500+whp owner pulls out of hypothetical parking lot and snaps everything between the clutch and axle ends(except the rear end) and then i'll come back and do the loling smileys at this post and say i told you so

WhiteSnowflake8

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=paulmasoner;2831561][QUOTE=dillsrotary;2831547]That might be me! though im working as hard as i can to make car safe for those powers.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

thats what i said... another mystery turbo...
nope, have no reason to but why not lemme quote it for you for another free advertisement. hmmm...
i wouldnt trust anyone who has to find ways to survive the tuning process.... just going off what it says....
thats why they fall apart under only mild abuse at stock power levels..... right. im not saying the instant you move it'll snap. i AM saying its nowhere near sufficient for even daily driving of that kind of power, or the occasional show off for friends type things. lol as if you'd DD that....

good luck with it... make sure you ask the experts in high HP drivetrains pieces around here and send some pm's ...

WhiteSnowflake8

iTrader: (5)

Yeah i have looked around for a few things. Right now gonna work on strengthing cooling system, engine, and clutch on tranny. If my tranny does give away i will look into a tii tranny since them are pretty tough. Right now im running kind of low on funds after buying a bunch of parts so i have to take it easy.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

if you wanna hear a thought on cooling for this kind of setup shoot me a pm sometime...

dillsrotary

Waiting isnt the issue, its whether you can truthfully quote it as true or not now, now it is just a matter of opinion.

GaMEChld

I want the Apex Seals! Actually, if you are going to be offering those, you think its possible you'll offer a rebuild kit too to replace the other gaskets and trinkets that can wear down over time? Like the Atkins Rotary master rebuild kit, but with your apex seals included?

As for the larger turbo @_@ !

I wonder what kind of wheels and tires we'd need to put that power to the ground. I'd definitely find a stronger tranny though if I were doing that, but that level of power is something I probly won't dabble in. Scary scary monster!

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

dill.... there are people who have found the 'breaking' points of quite a bit of the driveline pieces....

the tranny isnt a matter of opinion, its a matter of how much can you poissibly baby it with that kind of power to keep it working. and remember there are RX-8's out there well over 500whp on rew swaps and a few of them are cars that get abused and used.... the only thing thats a guess is the assumtion that the rear end can handle 800+ or some crazy number like that

Ryan2008

A lot more people bashing this than I thought. I personally think it seems like a great kit for such a damn good price. I just found my new mod for this year. I will have the sufficient funds to attempt over 500whp safely this year so for those of you doubting, just wait til the end of this year and we will all know. If no one beats me to it Very good job guys!


Side note to paulmasoner, that's some gross **** that interests you in your signature (Referring to "Single sickest rx8club thread ever"). Don't ever post **** like that on a car club thanks.

WhiteSnowflake8

iTrader: (5)

I would assume that the ordinary person wouldn't be trying to achieve this power level. I want it for the track, i will never drive my car over 13psi on the street (maybe a couple times) since its too much strain on the drive train. Now even if i had it boosted up to 20psi i hardly go above 5k on city. plus it would attract so much attention that its just crazy. I just assume that anyone going for this high power levels know what they are doing. They prob know how to take care of their tranny too so it shouldn't be a trouble.

Ryan2008

Yeah I agree, if I ever got my numbers that high, I obviously wouldn't drive it as a DD. I would plan to keep it for the rest of my life as a project/toy/track car.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

wasnt intended to come off as bashing... just that there is more to making over 500whp than appears from this thread. well, if you want to do it more than once that is

and fwiw i agree about the kit and price as long as ppl know what they are buying its great. if i wanted this type setup i'd buy this kit most likely, and immediately toss the turbo and a couple other small pieces and go from there

and i'm glad you got a grin out of the video.... i am pretty disturbed and get a large amount of entertainment out of watching other people get what they deserve... so when the glas shattered, i laughed so hard and so long that i culdnt breath with cramps till i started panicking

Ryan2008

True, maybe bashing wasn't the right word to use. And actually after reading all 11 pages, I can see why people are skeptical. I wouldn't say this kit is probably the most reliable at that price (just assuming, no hard feelings to Esmeril Racing) but it seems like a perfect starting point for anyone looking for big numbers in their RX8. I'd probably do the same thing you said about the turbo and "a couple other small pieces"

And about the video...

...actually never mind, let's just leave it at that.

blackenedwings

I wouldn't mind if someone started showing dynos of 500+ whp with the Renesis just to shut up various people who bash on the 8 because of the motor not dyno-queening like the FD. I would never want to run a car with that much hp as a DD, nor would I be comfortable putting that much power through a 10-1 compression motor period, but I think its cool that people are pushing that limit. I will be plenty happy with 325whp that I can daily drive and not worry about grenading the motor or transmission everytime I hit the gas.

For what it's worth, I'll put my money with paul on the stock transmission not holding up to 500 whp for any length of time. I don't think it will take too much to snap the OEM setup under those kinds of forces.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i agree, imo 500 is way out of DD territory, and more like either dyno queen or track star territory.

the other thing that has come up in PMs today is flowing that much exhaust. The mess i started in Pettits thread a while back wasnt to claim their turbo renny failures are BS, but to put them in perspective. IMO i think with the right choice of turbo you can play up to the 350-400 range all day without much concern if you're not a dedicated track car thats always under full load and high rpms.

but a part of what they were trying to express is right on the money... flowing 2.5-3 times the exhaust out of those ports than they were designed to handle will cause some heat retention and buildup. localized heat buildup like that can make metal expansion uneven, which could easily wear quickly or destroy side seals...

the reason they used Diasio's motors as a good example... even though they arent near the power being discussed here, which means not near the exhaust flow; they are dedicated track cars. they spend the vast majority of the engine life at full load and high rpm. constant abuse like that will eventually lead to heat retention/dissepation issues even in lesser powered applications. crank up the exhaust flow to be inline with 500WHP discussions and now your flowing so much exhaust that you dont have to abuse and sustain that kind of flow to run into issues getting all the exhaust out efficiently... i dont think it'd take much abuse at all to see localized cooling/heat issues with that kind of flow. now the question is, they managed to do something to control localized cooling inadequacy in the Diasio Rennys... what can we come up with to do the same....


what i am trying to summarize is that when talking the big numbers they are now, that localized cooling issues will be something that has to be conquered for any amount of longevity and reliability. now the question is how to handle localized cooling deficiencies like that? you can increase overall cooling efficiency and capacity all you want, when you have much higher cooling demands in a localized area its still going to be difficult i think to maintain equilibrium in different areas...

WhiteSnowflake8

iTrader: (5)

Like we talked my setup is gonna be built to sustain the track abuse. Need max cooling and what not to keep it safe.
Now i think chris is the only that can tell us what the renny can and can't do at those numbers. Since he is the only one reaching them numbers or atleast posting about it. I did notice he was doing some type of water/air that will support his higher damand of power. Now will have to wait for him to discuss what he thinks about all this.